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Locals to be asked to pay for road maintenance

  • 20-05-2013 11:48am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 zenno


    Irish Times.

    Locals to be asked to pay for road maintenance

    Up to 50% of cost or labour involved in repairs may come from local communities.


    Local communities are to be asked to contribute up to half the cost of repairs to their roads, as part of a State-wide scheme being promoted by the Government.

    Under a pilot programme announced by Minister for State Alan Kelly this morning, the Government is providing €10.6 million which has been matched by almost €4 million of private money.

    The announcement follows comments from Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar in March that no regional or local road improvements will take place for “the next couple of years”.

    Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/locals-to-be-asked-to-pay-for-road-maintenance-1.1400076

    This is crazy. Why are we even bothering paying road tax when the money is not being used to fix and maintain the roads, isn't that the whole point of paying road tax ?.

    Now they want us to pay more money to have our roads fixed even though we pay a fortune in road tax for this exact reason. Why pay it if the money is not being used as it was intended to be used.
    Tagged:


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭ pred racer


    Some pedantic so 'n so will be along shortly to tell you its 'motor tax' and not specifically for roads;)

    This happens already, in remote rural areas (like where I live) the only way to get smaller roads fixed is to pay up to half yourself.

    Makes you wonder why we pay tax, when you have to pay again for any service or amenity:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭ SC Kevin


    So there asking us to help with fix the roads...i think ill ask can i have a reduction in my road tax so :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,855 ✭✭✭✭ MetzgerMeister


    pred racer wrote: »
    Some pedantic so 'n so will be along shortly to tell you its 'motor tax' and not specifically for roads;)

    But it IS motor tax which goes into the government coffers along with every other tax we pay. It was never specifically there to pay for the maintenance of roads, only to increase the government's intake of revenue.

    Nothing at all pedantic about saying this because a lot of people get confused!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,874 padma


    they call it motor tax nowadays, although saying that, they can ask all they want they wont be getting any more moola from me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ BGozIE


    Not a chance i'll be paying anything else to those shower, were getting screwed as it is, what more do they expect from people.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭ pred racer


    But it IS motor tax which goes into the government coffers along with every other tax we pay. It was never specifically there to pay for the maintenance of roads.

    Told ya:D

    The point is MM, with all the taxes everyone pays, (im sure I dont have to list them for you:p ) why should we have to pay again just to have the roads in reasonable shape


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 zenno


    Does anyone have the figures on how much per annum 'total' is made from the intake of road tax/motor tax ?.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,148 ✭✭✭✭ Victor


    I don't think this is anything radically different to previous. For a long time, residents of minor rural roads have been required to part finance works - If there are only 3 houses on a 1km rural road that servces nobody else, why should everyone pay to faciliate something that is of utility to a limited few. With the Grafton Street improvement works, not only are the businesses in the area paying rates (about 5 times higher than the Local Property Tax), and paying for the Business Improvement District, but they are also contributing directly to the works.
    zenno wrote: »
    Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/locals-to-be-asked-to-pay-for-road-maintenance-1.1400076

    This is crazy. Why are we even bothering paying road tax when the money is not being used to fix and maintain the roads, isn't that the whole point of paying road tax ?.
    You would have a point if you paid road tax. However, you pay Motor Tax, something which, along with fuel duty, is designed to discourage excessive fuel usage and fuel imports.
    Now they want us to pay more money to have our roads fixed even though we pay a fortune in road tax for this exact reason. Why pay it if the money is not being used as it was intended to be used.
    Motor Tax goes to the Local Government Fund for general council expenditure, it isn't allocated specifically for roads.
    But it IS motor tax which goes into the government coffers along with every other tax we pay.
    For the last 10-15 years, it only goes to councils, not government.
    zenno wrote: »
    Does anyone have the figures on how much per annum 'total' is made from the intake of road tax/motor tax ?.
    See my posts on the matter in previous 'Road Tax / Motor Tax' threads


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,242 ✭✭✭✭ djimi


    Wasnt the idea behind the property tax that it was to go to the local authorities for purposes just like this?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,222 ✭✭✭ daenerysstormborn3


    We do pay "motor tax" and this tax goes into a big fund from which money is allocated towards different things, including maintenance of our roads, so the OP and countless others do have a point when they say they pay their "motor tax" and expect something in return.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    how about we take the workphobic people bleeding us dry down the dole office and put them to work on the roads, that could solve the problem


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,249 ✭✭✭✭ Guy:Incognito


    pred racer wrote: »
    Told ya:D

    The point is MM, with all the taxes everyone pays, (im sure I dont have to list them for you:p ) why should we have to pay again just to have the roads in reasonable shape

    If we're taking that line why should we pay again for anything? I pay income tax , so surely I shouldnt have to pay for anything after tha


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 zenno


    how about we take the workphobic people bleeding us dry down the dole office and put them to work on the roads, that could solve the problem

    Ohh, that's a coming down the road. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,973 ✭✭✭✭ challengemaster


    If they stopped making the roads out of jelly it would actually save a fortune. How many times a year do the CoCo dump some gravel into a hole and pay it down to 'fix' the road


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,014 ✭✭✭✭ joujoujou


    We do pay "motor tax" and this tax goes into a big fund from which money is allocated towards different things, including maintenance of our roads, so the OP and countless others do have a point when they say they pay their "motor tax" and expect something in return.
    Expect more taxes to pay. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,855 ✭✭✭✭ MetzgerMeister


    If they stopped making the roads out of jelly it would actually save a fortune. How many times a year do the CoCo dump some gravel into a hole and pay it down to 'fix' the road

    And this gravel ends up chipping paint on cars as soon as the next car drives over it. It has happened to me several times!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    well, if that contribution could be made in terms of labour, then I'm sure many unemployed persons would be glad of the work....the Community pays local labour to mend local roads...it's not all bad!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ big break


    how about we take the workphobic people bleeding us dry down the dole office and put them to work on the roads, that could solve the problem

    Ok.
    Step 1 get everyone on the dole to give 15 hours a week to fixing roads.
    Step 2 Sack all the road fixers.
    Step 3 Old road fixers go on the dole.
    Step 4 ??????!??
    Step 5 profit?

    I find this facinating but I missed step 4. Could you go over that again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,289 ✭✭✭✭ mfceiling


    Victor wrote: »
    I don't think this is anything radically different to previous. For a long time, residents of minor rural roads have been required to part finance works - If there are only 3 houses on a 1km rural road that servces nobody else, why should everyone pay to faciliate something that is of utility to a limited few. With the Grafton Street improvement works, not only are the businesses in the area paying rates (about 5 times higher than the Local Property Tax), and paying for the Business Improvement District, but they are also contributing directly to the works.

    You would have a point if you paid road tax. However, you pay Motor Tax, something which, along with fuel duty, is designed to discourage excessive fuel usage and fuel imports.

    Motor Tax goes to the Local Government Fund for general council expenditure, it isn't allocated specifically for roads.

    For the last 10-15 years, it only goes to councils, not government.

    See my posts on the matter in previous
    'Road Tax / Motor Tax' threads



    To be honest you could argue that I should pay less road tax than you because I don't drive as much or you should pay less for your fuel because your mileage is higher than mine.

    We all pay tax regardless of how fair it is or who benefits most from it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 msg11


    Whatever about the roads having holes in them. I am more worried about the vanishing/fading road markings on some roads, some drivers at the best of times hardly use them it's now getting to the stage where some roads are a free for all then add in a bit of rain and it's like a driving in India.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭ galwaytt


    We do pay "motor tax" and this tax goes into a big fund from which money is allocated towards different things, including maintenance of our roads, so the OP and countless others do have a point when they say they pay their "motor tax" and expect something in return.

    Yes, and I would think the amount of 'motor tax' exceeds the amount spent on roads, so there is no reason why roads can't be maintained within it.

    It'd be interesting to see the exact numbers.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    big break wrote: »
    Ok.
    Step 1 get everyone on the dole to give 15 hours a week to fixing roads.
    Step 2 Sack all the road fixers.
    Step 3 Old road fixers go on the dole.
    Step 4 ??????!??
    Step 5 profit?

    I find this facinating but I missed step 4. Could you go over that again.

    step 1 ) get people on the dole to fix the roads in their area for 20-30 hours a week
    step 2 ) we werent going to pay the paid workers to fix the roads anyway so their level of work is unchanged
    step 3 ) roads get fixed accross the country and I actually get some value for my tax money
    step 4 ) some of these people who now have training in road repair could go on to get jobs doing it full time, lessening my tax burdon and freeing up more money to pay for roads to be fixed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,855 ✭✭✭✭ MetzgerMeister


    That's all well and good but I guarantee you, there will be some red tape whereby the people on the dole will need to have special training before they're allowed work on the roads. The "value for money" aspect goes out the window when you consider that tax money will pay for this training.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    That's all well and good but I guarantee you, there will be some red tape whereby the people on the dole will need to have special training before they're allowed work on the roads. The "value for money" aspect goes out the window when you consider that tax money will pay for this training.

    sure we already pay for them to do fas courses anyway, and im sure theres a few roadbuilders on the dole at present too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,855 ✭✭✭✭ MetzgerMeister


    sure we already pay for them to do fas courses anyway, and im sure theres a few roadbuilders on the dole at present too.

    Nah, they're all over in Spain and other EU countries building their motorway networks :P


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ big break


    step 1 ) get people on the dole to fix the roads in their area for 20-30 hours a week
    step 2 ) we werent going to pay the paid workers to fix the roads anyway so their level of work is unchanged
    step 3 ) roads get fixed accross the country and I actually get some value for my tax money
    step 4 ) some of these people who now have training in road repair could go on to get jobs doing it full time, lessening my tax burdon and freeing up more money to pay for roads to be fixed.
    What would the insurance and prsi , training costs be when you factor in giving so many people such few hours?
    Would the money be there to pay for materials and transport ?
    Do you just want to bash people out of work?
    What about road fixers who are unemployed? Should they now work for their social welfare?
    If you , after paying stamps for years were let go tomorrow would you be happy digging roads for a paltry 188 euro? Or would you rather use the time to find work.
    What if a doctor came out of college and was looking for work. Should he dig ditches while he waits for a place to open in the recruitment freeze?
    Are you a member of government?What I see here is a joke of a government policy and somebody standing by and suggesting we need to victimise people out of work because of other joke government policies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,695 BMJD


    Suggestions:
    • A tax on cars, maybe to be paid annuallly or every 3/6 months. A small, round certificate of compliance shall be issued to be placed on windscreen to proudly show fellow citizens
    • A levy on fuel, about 90 cents per litre of petrol or 77 cents per litre of diesel
    • A tax on new vehicles, for registration like. Anything up to 36% of the vehicle's value. If you don't know the value, pull one out of your arse. Slap some VAT on top of that as well when you're at it
    • Stick a levy onto insurance premiums as well when you're at it
    • Place some vans on safe stretches of road, take photos of citizens exceeding a deliberately low speed limit, demand money from them or else! Pretend it's all to do with road safety.

    feck it, hammer the motorist with all of the above, sure they won't say a thing about it!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    big break wrote: »
    What about road fixers who are unemployed? Should they now work for their social welfare?
    Everyone should be working for their welfare, or working and not getting it at all.
    If you , after paying stamps for years were let go tomorrow would you be happy digging roads for a paltry 188 euro? Or would you rather use the time to find work.
    Im self employed, the dole isnt really an option for me, so I would rather strangle cats for 188 quid a week than have nothing.
    What if a doctor came out of college and was looking for work. Should he dig ditches while he waits for a place to open in the recruitment freeze?
    If thats what he needs to do to put a roof over his head. Ive adapted my skillset to earn money (even in the short term), why shouldnt he
    Are you a member of government?What I see here is a joke of a government policy and somebody standing by and suggesting we need to victimise people out of work because of other joke government policies.
    I think theres enough people on social welfare victimising themselves
    things like "theres no jobs" "its all the gubberments fault" and other soundbits constantly thrown around in pubs and bookies every hour of the working day accross Ireland.

    i think were going a bit Off topic here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 zenno


    This is turning into a dole thread and is off topic. Dole thread is that way --->>>


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,738 ✭✭✭✭ corktina


    there are no old roadfixers....otherwise the roads would be fixed already....

    If I was on the dole I would have no objection at all to working for it, especially if you got a little more as a result.


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