If... the Unforgiving Minute

Oregano_State · 20-05-2013 11:04AM

Good stuff. Be careful of too much too soon, it's easy to underestimate how much sprinting takes out of you.

dna_leri · 20-05-2013 11:28AM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Sounds like you have a serious case of 'age'. Unfortunately, there are no known cures. I also suffer from it. Unfortunately, it's terminal.

You are probably right but that does not mean we have to accept it. Keep fighting the ravages of time!

I'll be interested to hear about your next attempt at 400m - I'm planning to give it a go in few weeks too.

Krusty_Clown · 20-05-2013 11:56AM

dna_leri wrote: »

You are probably right but that does not mean we have to accept it. Keep fighting the ravages of time!

I'll be interested to hear about your next attempt at 400m - I'm planning to give it a go in few weeks too.

I wouldn't be too optimistic about my first attempt to be honest, as it is unlikely that I will have done any specific training, and it comes just a few days after the toughest race in my calendar year (Wicklow Way relay on Saturday). I fully expect to be in rag order after the race (and for most of the ensuing week).

Are you going to run any of the graded meets?

dna_leri · 20-05-2013 12:08PM

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I wouldn't be too optimistic about my first attempt to be honest, as it is unlikely that I will have done any specific training, and it comes just a few days after the toughest race in my calendar year (Wicklow Way relay on Saturday). I fully expect to be in rag order after the race (and for most of the ensuing week).

Are you going to run any of the graded meets?

I enjoyed the graded meet last year but the travel home is a killer.
At the moment I have pencilled in:
400m in Santry 12 June
800m in Santry 10 July
Mile in Tallaght 24 July
800m in Santry 7 Aug
I will decide on each one nearer the time based on work/family demands and if I can find any closer events.

12 June might suit you better than next week for a 400 too ?

dna_leri · 22-05-2013 08:17AM

Plan for Tuesday track was 2x6x200m (1500m pace) [1,5 min recoveries]
My current 1500m pace is around 36s but probably should be faster so I planned for 35s.
Even with the short recoveries I was not expecting this to be a killer session.
The wind was blowing diagonally across the track so in my face on the bend but helping a bit in the straight.

I timed the first one at 31.9, whoa ease back, then 35.0, 34.7, 33.8, 33.3, 32.6.
The times were getting quicker but I was comfortable so I stayed with it.
The second set was 32.6, 33.7, 32.8, 32.5, 33.6, 33.4.
Overall average 33.3s - pretty good (4:10 1500m pace).
Recoveries were all around 1 min except for one at 1:30 when one of the coaches came over for a chat.

I had not planned on racing for a few weeks but the club is short for the league on Sunday so I may end up dipping my toe in earlier than expected. Is there a record for the longest gap between appearances at a National League meet?

RandyMann · 23-05-2013 09:36PM

dna_leri wrote: »

Plan for Tuesday track was 2x6x200m (1500m pace) [1,5 min recoveries]
My current 1500m pace is around 36s but probably should be faster so I planned for 35s.
Even with the short recoveries I was not expecting this to be a killer session.
The wind was blowing diagonally across the track so in my face on the bend but helping a bit in the straight.

I timed the first one at 31.9, whoa ease back, then 35.0, 34.7, 33.8, 33.3, 32.6.
The times were getting quicker but I was comfortable so I stayed with it.
The second set was 32.6, 33.7, 32.8, 32.5, 33.6, 33.4.
Overall average 33.3s - pretty good (4:10 1500m pace).
Recoveries were all around 1 min except for one at 1:30 when one of the coaches came over for a chat.

I had not planned on racing for a few weeks but the club is short for the league on Sunday so I may end up dipping my toe in earlier than expected. Is there a record for the longest gap between appearances at a National League meet?

Thats some great running D, I will interested in seeing how you do in a 400 with your type of training.
I am thinking of doing the 400 that same night too as I think it will be good for my strength for the 200 and my mental health too

dna_leri · 24-05-2013 08:51AM

I did a repeat of last week's speed session on Thursday. Form and fluency felt a lot better. Weather was sh1te - cold northern wind blowing across the track with heavy showers, could have done with gloves. I ran with the wind behind me where I could.

Warm-up including drills, leg-swings & lunges seemed to take longer than the session.
First 3x30m - felt too short, could not really get into stride.
Then 2x100m in 13.3 & 13.4s off 3 min recovery from 3-point start.
Finished with 2x200m in 27.9 & 27.6s from 5m rolling start with over 3 min recovery & 5 mins between sets. Relaxed well coming off the bend and finished strong.

Progress.

dna_leri · 28-05-2013 10:29PM

I broke up Sunday's long run with 3 sets of hill sprints/strides. Each lap is just under 6K, so at the end of each I did 3 short hill sprints. Traditionally sprints are best done when fresh but I think it's also useful to do them when fatigued, simulating the end of a race, when you need to kick for home. It also helps to practice changing running mechanics from jogging to sprinting when tired.

Tuesday was originally down for 800s at 3K pace but I had skipped over the previous workout of 400s at this pace, so I went back to do this one before moving on. New plan was 12x400m (75s) [75s]. It was sunny but still that damn breeze. The track was not empty but I had no help for these - could have done with it.

Actuals were: 72, 74, 73, 74, 74, 74, 73, 72, 74, 72, 73, 71
I found myself struggling after half way so I stopped checking the splits and actually went quicker.
At 8, I reasoned at least that's 3/4 way done.
By 9, I realised I had only been 2/3 done and this was now 3/4 - still 25% to do.
Ok, let the next one drift a bit then finish strong, actually went faster.
Did not have much left for the last one but still finished well.
Tough.

dna_leri · 31-05-2013 08:10AM

Plan for Thursday was 6x200m (28") [4']

By the time I completed my warm-up there was another group on the track taking over then whole home straight and some. I decided to change to 8x150m (21") instead, down the back straight (into the wind).

I hand timed the first few in 19.6, 20.5, 20.8 - the recoveries were all 3-4 min active but on the 4th rep as I kicked off the bend I felt my right calf tighten up. I pulled up, stretched it, massaged it and everything was fine. After a bit of jogging around I decided to go again, taking it easy for the first one in 21.7, then 20.4, 20.5.

At this stage the track was starting to clear so I took a few extra minutes to let them get out and decided to finish on 2x200m. I had not gone 50m when my calf tightened again. This time I took the hint and stopped. Again it loosened up after a few minutes and I felt nothing during a 1 mile easy/steady run.

Afterwards, I could still feel a good knot in my gastrocnemius which I tried to loosen out with massage and foam rolling. Still feel it tight now, so glad I stopped when I did, will get professional help if not better over the weekend. I have been debating the reasons for it, maybe the first one was a bit fast, maybe I had poorly hydrated during a busy warm day at work, maybe I had pushed too hard earlier in the week with hills and 400s, maybe a bit of everything.

pconn062 · 31-05-2013 09:41AM

Hope the calf holds up for you, it seems like track running and sore calves go hand in hand.

dna_leri · 07-06-2013 10:08AM

Training and life have been a bit hectic recently.

After last Thursday's calf issues, I rested on Friday and Saturday. On Sunday I went for 30 mins easy with the young lad. Then to test the calf I did 4x1M tempo effort. First one was a few meters short in 5:40, then 5:45-5:50. I forget the recovery time but I kept it short. I felt a twinge after the 3rd so did not push it for the 4th but kept it under 6 mins. Did another 30 mins easy afterwards.

Tuesday I was short of time after getting the car into NCT and before driving to Dublin for an early morning flight on Wednesday. I could not make the track so I did 30 mins easy followed by 16x200m strides on a level section of compacted trail. Distance was approximate, times were under 30s, recoveries short.

Wednesday was a write off. Thursday started in Zurich at 5am but got home for a track session that evening. Track was booked so instead of a planned session of 300s with full recovery, I did 4x300m on grass off 3:30 recovery. Distances are approximate, times were 45, 47, 50, 47.

Current status: calf ok, generally wrecked. Need to get true quality session fitted into this weekend between Connacht team events, birthday & sleep.

dna_leri · 10-06-2013 09:58AM

I dropped my long run and headed to the track on Sunday - the hottest day of the year so far. The track is the one I used a few times before the indoor season. It's only 330m and has tight turns but the surface is good and I would not have to climb over the fence to get in.

The plan was 2x400m (1 min) [full rec]. The purpose was to check my race fitness. I did a good long warm-up as I would before a race. I put on my racing spikes for the first time in months. Then did 1x100m to gauge pace - 14.1s felt good. The 400s were from a standing start. On the first one I checked my watch at the 200m line 30.x so I needed to push a bit harder. Finished in 59.8s - a bit too close but ok.

For my recovery I tried to keep moving so the muscles would not tighten up. I did the second one in lane 4 to lessen the effect of the bends. I drove well off the bends, relaxed on the straights. I noted 29.x at the half-way and finished strong, arms pumping for 59.3s, not bad. I finished with a couple of easy miles on grass.

My conclusion is that I'm in reasonable (but not PB) shape for an 800m but not a 400m. I will pass on the planned Graded Meet 400m this week and do an 800m at the weekend instead. An outdoor PB (2:07) would be nice but it's more important to get out there and start racing again. Although I would like to count this sub 60s for the "10 round numbers" thread, I don't feel I can as it was self-timed. I might still race a 400m before the year is out.

Oregano_State · 10-06-2013 10:03AM

Good running. What's your 400m PB out of interest?

dna_leri · 10-06-2013 10:12AM

Oregano_State wrote: »

Good running. What's your 400m PB out of interest?

My recent PB is 56.3 hand-timed from 2009 with 57.35 FAT.
My real PB is around 50s but that is from 29 years ago :eek:
At best now I would do 57.x

Oregano_State · 10-06-2013 10:26AM

You're knocking on the door of a 2 minute 800m off 57s 400m flat out, that's not bad at all!

dna_leri · 10-06-2013 10:47AM

Oregano_State wrote: »

You're knocking on the door of a 2 minute 800m off 57s 400m flat out, that's not bad at all!

Indoor was 2:02, so I should go 2:01. After that it's about getting all the small things lined up for that one perfect race.

Hope you get back into training in next short while.

dna_leri · 12-06-2013 10:28AM

Plan for Tuesday's track session was 3x3x300m. Last time out (during indoor season) I did them in average 31s off 1 min recovery & 4-5 between sets. I had built up to that over a few sessions, reducing the recovery time from 2 mins & 8 mins between sets.

This time I started with 1 min recovery and was happy as long as I kept them under 31s.
Normal weather service had been resumed: the sun had gone back to its usual place behind the clouds, the track was wet and a slight wind blew across the track.

Times were as follows: 28.9, 30.1, 29.4 [4 min rest] then 29.6, 29.9, 30.2.
At this stage I was puffing but the legs felt fine, so I took 5 mins active recovery.
Just as I started the 7th rep, I felt both my calves tighten slightly. I was taking no chances so I pulled up straight away. I decided to leave it at that and felt fine during a 15 min cool down.

So only 2x3x200m in average 29.7s off 1 min & 4 mins - a lot less than I had planned but it will do for now.

dna_leri · 14-06-2013 08:41AM

I went back to one of my favourite pre-race workouts on Thursday - 10x100m at just faster than race pace with 300m jog recovery. Track was dry but breezy.

I was feeling a bit of tightness (but not in a bad way) in my calves and hamstrings from a strength workout on Wednesday so I did the first five in my flats in: 14.9, 15.5, 15.7, 15.3, 15.1 - with average recovery of just under 80s. I was feeling ok so I changed to my training spikes for the next set and was surprised by the improvement in 14.4, 14.5, 14.8, 14.3 & 13.7 with recovery taking a bit longer in just under 90s.

I know I should not compare times from previous workouts but I can't ignore the fact that I did a similar session at the end of January in average 13.9 off 63s on the bend :eek:

dna_leri · 17-06-2013 08:32AM

I ran the Connacht Senior 800m on Sunday. There were just three of us entered so we were put in with the juniors. I lined up in lane 7 with a GCH senior inside me and the other competitor (from Ballinamore I think) outside. The day was almost perfect for track running, temperature in mid-teens and only a light breeze. My plan was to sit-and-kick and end up with an outdoor PB (2:07) and test how I felt at race pace.

From the gun, two young Craughwell lads went out hard. I knew one of them was a sub 2 min guy so I was not going to give chase today. I cut across into third in front of a Claremorris junior. In hindsight I should have taken his shoulder, instead I ended up leading the pack. I heard 30, 31 at the 200m mark and kept it steady. If anyone else had tried to take up the running I would have let them.

At the bell, I think I heard 63 called, I was not paying much attention to times. By now the Craughwell lads had a sizeable gap - over 15m. Coming down the back straight, the Claremorris guy made a move. I forced him wide but let him pass. Coming off the final bend I kicked, past the Claremorris lad and surprisingly past one of the two early leaders who had faded. With less than 50m to go, I sensed someone coming up on my shoulder. I guessed it might be the white shirt of the GCH runner, so I picked it up again and dipped for the line. I thought I had done enough to hold him off.

After a bit of debate, I was given 2nd Senior and 3rd overall. At the time I was not bothered by not winning. Later when a few spectators said they also thought I had won, I was slightly disappointed. If it had been an important race to me, I would have protested and looked to see the photo-finish (if there was one). I got an unofficial time of 2:06 and in the end, I was happy enough with that - an outdoor PB, a couple of secs faster than this time last year. My tactics were a bit suspect but I had a good finishing kick and no significant aches or pains afterwards.

dna_leri · 17-06-2013 11:47AM

Almost forgot the all-important post-race beer, which had been restocked by the DL jnrs (with help from the Mrs) in honour of father's day. I started with a very drinkable Porterhouse Red which did wonders for the thirst. Moved on to the more complex To Øl Reparationsbajer - a Danish "American Pale Ale" which apparently means recovery beer - designed for the morning after. It certainly helped my recovery.

Can I join the "snobby beer club" now, despite my previous faux pas with Blue Moon?

dna_leri · 19-06-2013 10:50AM

Recovery was good after my race Sunday but I decided not to do a hard session on Tuesday and wait until Thursday. Instead I did 10 mins easy, 9 mins steady, a set of lunges and leg swings, 12 strides - diagonals across the soccer pitch, followed by about 3 miles easy with a fast finish.

These next 8-9 weeks are my track competition season. I have 5 races pencilled in culminating with the National Masters in Tullamore on Aug 17. The next 2-3 weeks are critical to set me up for success.

dna_leri · 21-06-2013 08:00AM

Late last year I did a series of 600m repeats getting progressively faster, going from 6x600 down to 2x600 just before indoor season, which in hindsight were key to some good 800m racing. Yesterday I started with 6x600m at mile pace with 4 minutes recovery.

It was perfect weather for track, warm with only a light breeze. The only problem was the track was busy with different groups but I was running on my own. I used one of the middle lanes but although the 600m start is marked (400m relay) it is hard to know the splits so I was not able to monitor the pace closely.

The first one was just under 1:50, the next just under 1:49. I then brought it down to 1:47 & 1:47. By now I was suffering so I decided to just go for the 5th one and not think about the 6th - 1:46. Of course I still pushed the 6th - 1:45. Recoveries were consistently 4 mins and the average rep was 1:47.3 but I was especially happy with the progression within the session - I had not managed that previously.

YFlyer · 21-06-2013 08:22AM

Good session(s) those 600 repeats.

For the 5 by 600m. Are you going to a) shorten the recovery between each rep and hit mile pace, or b) increase recovery and see can you complete them all at a faster pace?

The 2nd choice will likely be more difficult.

dna_leri · 21-06-2013 08:41AM

YFlyer wrote: »

Good session(s) those 600 repeats.

For the 5 by 600m. Are you going to a) shorten the recovery between each rep and hit mile pace, or b) increase recovery and see can you complete them all at a faster pace?

The 2nd choice will likely be more difficult.

I will increase the recovery while winding up the pace and reducing the number of reps. Something like this:
5x600m with 5 min rec
4x600m with 6 min rec
3x600m with 8 min rec
and finally 2x600m at 800m pace with 10 min rec

Sacksian · 21-06-2013 10:03AM

Hi dna_leri - as the 800m oracle, just wanted to pick your brains!

I 'm a complete 800m (and track) newbie, with a grand total of one track race under my belt, coming from running marathons (but as a low mileage marathoner, never over 50mpw).

I'm hoping to run in the masters in August but I'm just starting training now after being out for a few months injured so I'm limited in what I can do. I want to maximise the time available to me, so 3 Questions for you:

1. What does the ideal week look like? How many speed sessions a week can you/should you do? Long run? Steady running? I can run 6-7 days a week.

2. What is your favourite session for speed and favourite session for speed endurance?

3. My tendency is to take a couple of days off after a race but, given my limited amount of time between now and August, I can't really afford to do that, so what sort of session can you do the day after a race? Or the day before?

Any insight appreciated, thanks.

dna_leri · 21-06-2013 11:46AM

Sacksian - First a disclaimer, I'm no coach and no expert. Everything I do is based on an experiment of one, me. I am happy to answer your questions but a red light goes off when I see: newbie, low mileage, few months injured, maximise the time available. :eek: Add a recipe of hard sessions on top that and I am sorry to say that you will be lucky if you make it to August in one piece. So my first advice is get yourself fit enough to train hard. I do that by training for a 5K. If I am in shape to run a 5K PB, then I am ready to train for 800m. But only you can know (or guess) what's going to work for you.

Anyway good questions.

1. What's the ideal week look like? How many speed sessions a week can you/should you do? Long run? Steady running? I can run 6-7 days a week.

I schedule in 3 quality days each week, everything else fits around that. There is nothing worse than not being able to give your all at a session because your easy run the day before turned into a steady run and you had not fully recovered from the previous session. Hard Days Hard, easy days easy means there is no room for mediocre days. For the next 8-9 weeks, my quality sessions will be Q1 speed endurance, Q2 speed, Q3 long or threshold or steady +hills. If I race, one of those gets dropped. I will arrange my week around getting the Q1 session done, everything else gets fitted around them. So next week is speed on Tuesday, 5x600 on Thursday and long/tempo on Sunday. The rest I will figure out around work and family life.

2. What is your favourite session for speed and favourite session for speed endurance?

Favourite speed session is 2 (or 3) sets of 3x200m, faster than race pace with 2 min rec and at least 5 mins between sets. Favourite speed endurance is probably the 600m progression above - but ask me again when I'm trying to do 4 of them under 1:40, then they will be my least favourite.

3. My tendency is to take a couple of days off after a race but, given my limited amount of time between now and August, I can't really afford to do that, so what sort of session can you do the day after a race? Or the day before?

I also like to take 1 or 2 days off after a race. I can't afford not to. Rest and recovery are your friends when you race hard at my age. After my race on Sunday, I rested on Monday but did a series of exercises similar to this: http://www.coachjayjohnson.com/2011/11/running-times-article-give-me-15-minutes/
Other times I will go for a recovery jog - maybe 30 mins slow without a watch or garmin, they are not even worth recording but they are worth doing. On Tuesday I did not feel 90% (I can't always be 100% but if I'm not at least 90% there is no point in doing a hard session) so I did the in-betweener session above based around the set of "diagonals". I]edit: alright so sometimes it ok to do a mediocre session![/I
Usually 2 days before competition I will do something at race pace but low volume e.g. 10x100m off 300m. The day before I might do an easy run with a few strides or just a slow jog or nothing. Did I say already that it's important to rest and recover.

Good luck with your own training, just don't turn up in Tullamore and beat me.

Sacksian · 21-06-2013 01:19PM

This is really, really helpful - thanks a million - I'll go back through your training log in depth over the weekend!

dna_leri wrote: »

a red light goes off when I see: newbie, low mileage, few months injured, maximise the time available. :eek: Add a recipe of hard sessions on top that and I am sorry to say that you will be lucky if you make it to August in one piece.

Yeah, that doesn't look good, does it??!! It's my first running injury and I'm pretty conservative with training, so I'm hoping I'll be okay. I'm just conscious that I have a lot to work on between now and August.

dna_leri wrote: »

Good luck with your own training, just don't turn up in Tullamore and beat me.

I'm hoping to get down to around 2:07 or so by Tullamore with a view to having a proper go at it next year. I probably won't be competitive (I'm V1) but there are so few races that I'd really hate to miss it (unless I'm injured).

So, unless you slow drastically or I turn out to be Vebjorn Rodal in disguise, chances are I won't be anywhere near you.

dna_leri · 21-06-2013 01:51PM

Sacksian wrote: »

I'm hoping to get down to around 2:07 or so by Tullamore with a view to having a proper go at it next year. I probably won't be competitive (I'm V1) but there are so few races that I'd really hate to miss it (unless I'm injured).

So, unless you slow drastically or I turn out to be Vebjorn Rodal in disguise, chances are I won't be anywhere near you.

2:07 should see you in the mix - those races can be a bit tactical depending on who shows up and if you have a finishing kick, who knows...

Rodal - now there's a name from the past that I had forgotten - he would be V2 though so we are safe.

dna_leri · 24-06-2013 07:56AM

The plan for Sunday was 30 mins easy, 4x 1 mile steady, 30 mins easy.
For the first 30 mins, I had the hat, gloves and jacket on as I got pushed around by the unseasonal wind and rain.

The first mile rep was with the wind, so I held back for 5:58 - bit slow. I worked harder on the way back but it was still 6:03 into the wind. I got it right for the third one (5:45) and decided then to add on another wind-assisted rep at the end. My 2 min recoveries were more than enough, though I did not get under the 6 mins on the way back again (6:00). It was so much easier with the wind - 5:46 for the fifth one. The last 30 mins was a slog.

dna_leri · 26-06-2013 07:51AM

Plan for Tuesday's track session was 2x30m, 2x60m, 2x100m & 2x200m with walk back between reps and full recovery between sets. Conditions were good for running but there is always a breeze on this track, probably because we are so near the coast. As always I ran with the wind where I could.

I did not time the 30s & 60s but they felt smooth, I did the 1st one as a 3-point start and the 2nd rep rolling. I clocked the 100s at 13.3s & 12.6s with 2.5 mins between and 7 mins after. The 200s were 26.7s & 26.9s with 5 mins between them. The last one was tough, like the end of a 400 race but I was pleased with the times. Although I know the limitations of self-timing, they compare well to a similar session a month ago.

If... the Unforgiving Minute

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