If... the Unforgiving Minute

oldrunner

IMO, you are running your 1500 and mile races way too conservatively. I ran 4:29 for the 1500 earlier this summer and have only just dipped under 2:15 for 800 (but should be closer to 2:10).
To calculate my target 1500 time, I usually double my 800 and add 5-10 seconds. If you are in 2:02 800 shape, you should be able to run sub 4:20 easily and your mile should be better than 4:40.

Oregano_State

oldrunner wrote: »

IMO, you are running your 1500 and mile races way too conservatively. I ran 4:29 for the 1500 earlier this summer and have only just dipped under 2:15 for 800 (but should be closer to 2:10).
To calculate my target 1500 time, I usually double my 800 and add 5-10 seconds. If you are in 2:02 800 shape, you should be able to run sub 4:20 easily and your mile should be better than 4:40.

I wouldn't necessarily agree. DNA's training is geared towards 800m, so he could expect to do better in that compared to the longer stuff.

I was training for 400m this year. I ran a 2:08 800m a few months back, but I'd have probably struggled to break 5min for 1500m.

dna_leri

oldrunner wrote: »

IMO, you are running your 1500 and mile races way too conservatively. I ran 4:29 for the 1500 earlier this summer and have only just dipped under 2:15 for 800 (but should be closer to 2:10).
To calculate my target 1500 time, I usually double my 800 and add 5-10 seconds. If you are in 2:02 800 shape, you should be able to run sub 4:20 easily and your mile should be better than 4:40.

100% right. In my mile race report I noted I was feeling comfortable with 1 lap to go - that should not be the case, if I'm on PB pace, I should be hanging in for the last lap. Even taking into account that endurance is my weak point, plugging my 5K time into McMillan shows I should be 4:45 for the mile. Truth is I did not push hard enough in that race. Once I decided not to go with the leader, I sat back and was happy to kick down the finish.

My 1500m time (4:29) is from last year when I was running 2:08 for 800m. Last week I might have been better to have ran the 1500s where there were competitive races with plenty of finishers between 4:10 & 4:30 in A & B grades. My 1500/mile time will have to wait for another opportunity to just go for it and set a decent PB. In the meantime, 800 is the focus.

dna_leri

Oregano_State wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily agree. DNA's training is geared towards 800m, so he could expect to do better in that compared to the longer stuff.
.

You are right in that I target the 800m but I should still get carry over to the mile distances. However this year I took more satisfaction from knocking 1.2s off my 400m time than the 8s off my mile PB. As long as I keeping chipping away at both them, I know I'm on the right track.

dna_leri

I have been off the grid for the last few weeks mainly due to holidays.

Workouts since my last race were:
28/7 - 5x 1 mile trail (5:55) [2 min rec]
30/7 - 2x 600m track (1:37,1:38) [10 min rec]
1/8 - 1M, 800m, 400m, 8 strides on tarmac and gravel path, not timed, steady effort, 1 min rec.
5/8 - 2x3x 200m track (30.0s) [2 & 5 min rec]

I had planned the 800m in Santry on Wednesday as a PB attempt but in the days leading up to it, I did not feel that was likely so on the day I decided to focus on racing instead and see what time it brought. My main focus is the M45 800m at the National Masters in Tullamore on Aug 17 but I am a bit short of 800m race practice. I signed up for Grade B and noticed one of my masters competitors (CM) in the same race. Last summer I had beaten him by about 0.6s in the 800m in the Masters, in the indoors he won the 1500m while I won the 800m so we would both be watching each other. He has already done a 2:03 this year so is in flying form.

Conditions for the race were perfect. A warm summer's evening with hardly a breath of wind. Santry track with its Mondo surface is as fast as you get. With good fields to race against, there were no excuses. I even had the day off so drove up at leisure.

There were 2 races in the Grade B. I'm pretty sure that was Timmaay in the 1st one running a stormer. I got drawn in lane 7 with my competitor CM in the inside lane. After a long wait for the start, I got out well and bumped shoulders at the break point as lane 8 cut across and lane 6 held his place, with me in the middle. I held my ground and went into the turn in about fourth, not on the inside but in a good place in lane 1. I thought of Peter Coe's view that it's better to be in this position and watching the breaks than stuck on the inside. I went through 200m in about 28.x and 400 in 61s.

I lost some ground in the next 200m as a few started their moves down the back straight. CM went past me here and I should have followed closely but allowed a few meters to open up. Down the finishing straight, I picked up the pace and closed the gap. I had left it too late and did not have enough kick. I finished 6th of 10 in 2:05.24. CM was 0.3s ahead with the results showing another guy between us that I never even saw on the day - I suspect he is a masters M45 as well. It's my second fastest 800m ever and an outdoor PB so I should be happy enough...

In any case it sets things up well for a competitive race Saturday week. When I ran my indoor PB, I had done 2:05 just 2 weeks before, so with a little more speedwork to tune up, maybe I can pull another big one out of the hat.

Timmaay

Well done, sounds as if things are coming together nicely! Yep that was me in the 1st race, pace went out fair hard in our race, 26sec for the 1st 200! Cant say I noticed ya in the 2nd race, well in fairness I can't say I noticed anything at all for the 5mins following my race .

What key sessions do you have planned before the masters? 800 races and training almost always give me calf and hamstring problems, so I like to taper down very early for key 800 races, I've certainly learnt the hard way before by overdoing it in the week prior to an 800m race, hard to find the balance. But this year for certain, less has been more for me, been busy with work so did less sessions, most my early stuff was 1500m focused, with the 800m sessions only tagged on about 2wks before my 1st 800m of the season, which I totally surprised myself coming within 1/2second of a pb.

dna_leri

Timmaay wrote: »

What key sessions do you have planned before the masters? 800 races and training almost always give me calf and hamstring problems, so I like to taper down very early for key 800 races, I've certainly learnt the hard way before by overdoing it in the week prior to an 800m race, hard to find the balance. But this year for certain, less has been more for me, been busy with work so did less sessions, most my early stuff was 1500m focused, with the 800m sessions only tagged on about 2wks before my 1st 800m of the season, which I totally surprised myself coming within 1/2second of a pb.

Like yourself (I think) I am a low mileage 800m runner so a good taper suits me too. That means I will cut back on the volume but maintain the pace - probably something like the following- all at race pace or slightly faster:
400, 300, 200, 100m medium rec.
2-3x 3x 200m like this week
10x 100m - 300m jog rec

I will adjust depending on how I feel, touch wood I have no strains in the last few weeks, so it's just about sharpening up.

dna_leri

Training has gone pretty close to plan for the week.

Sunday track:
2x100m to get on pace, then 4-3-2-1 in 64, 45, 30, 13.1 off 3-5 mins

Tuesday I dropped the session in favour of an easy run around Lough Key Forest park, a bit longer than planned at 11.3 km including some good fast strides at the end.

Morning track session on Thursday was 8x100m with 2-300m jog recovery.
First 3 were down the finishing straight in average 14.8s
Next 3 were around the bend from standing start in 14.7s
Let go for last 2 in 12.7s off rolling start.

Rest today, race tomorrow. Feeling good.
Ran the race several times in my head already but there is always the unexpected.
Ready for it.

pconn062

Very best of luck to you in the race, your training has been great. Enjoy it!

Oregano_State

Give it socks!

dna_leri

Surprisingly went to plan and won it in tight finish. No great time in bad conditions. Full report later.

dna_leri

My plan for this race was pretty simple - do what's needed to win. There were no time targets, just follow the leader and kick hard down the home straight, slowing less than everyone else.

There were 6 of us in the race. most of whom I knew: CM who came 2nd to me last year and beat me in Santry recently; KC who had won a 1500 or 800 a few years ago; BO who had won the 400m O40 a few years ago. We were starting together with the five O40s which can make it a bit tricky to race. I was drawn in lane 7 with 1 guy outside me. There was a heavy thunderstorm as we were lined up and the starting equipment failed so after a bit of a delay they reverted to manual gun and timing.

I got out hard and passed the guy outside me within 50m. My thinking is that you use a different energy system during those first 8-10s so better to use it productively getting up to speed as it won't be there later. It also meant I came into the back straight in a good position, avoiding trouble and asserting myself on the race. One guy in blue, who I knew was O40 came through on the inside and I saw the purple shirt of CM behind him so I let him through on the inside. Another MSB O40 went round the outside. At the bend, I took up position on CMs shoulder. I saw a few photos since then where I look like his shadow (I'll try to post them later).

I did not notice any wind during the race and I can't remember if it was still raining, I was in the zone. I felt the effort increase around the bend but kept in touch. The split time was called as 61 for the leader and 63 for us O45s. Last year CM kicked from the bell and I left it late to reel him in, this year he pushed at 600m but it was not decisive - I was never more than a step behind but we did drop the MSB O40 guy.

I can't remember who it was said you only get to make 2 moves in an 800m race - 1 defensive and 1 attacking so use them wisely. I made my attacking move off the bend - the ideal spot as momentum takes you wide anyway. For a moment I thought I had gone too early as he kicked back. We were almost shoulder to shoulder (actually shoulder to elbow) down the finishing straight, both sprinting hard with lots of noise from the crowd in the stand. I always felt I had the edge and with 20m to go he seemed to slow. In the end I did not need to dip for the line and won clearly.

Afterwards I almost felt like apologizing for stealing the race but that's the game. I got an unofficial time of 2:05 from two people later and that felt about right - a couple of secs faster than last year but not near PB territory. The official hand recorded time was 2:07.6 with 2nd in 2:07.8 and third in 2:10.9 but it was all about the result. Those last few sprint workouts might have made the difference.

Next up I will take a break from track and just maintain my easy runs for a few weeks. I will take that time to make some plans for the next year also, although I have a fair idea already. I'll come back and update here then. In the meantime thanks for the support.

dna_leri

That's me hiding behind the leader, could I have stayed closer?

YFlyer

That's me at the back of the photo. Not my best race. I had missed 5 weeks training after the Munster Championships due to glutes and groin injury.

It was a bit of a crash course trying to get 'race' fit. The 2nd lap was a struggle. I ended a whole 7 seconds off of the 2nd guy.

Now is time to build up the mileage for the CC.

dna_leri

YFlyer wrote: »

That's me at the back of the photo. Not my best race. I had missed 5 weeks training after the Munster Championships due to glutes and groin injury.

It was a bit of a crash course trying to get 'race' fit. The 2nd lap was a struggle. I ended a whole 7 seconds off of the 2nd guy.

Now is time to build up the mileage for the CC.

Guessed that was you alright. You did good considering the time off.

YFlyer

Yeah I said hi to you before the race, however I don't think you had a clue who I was.

My time from the Munster was 2:12 so could have given the other chap a race if I was fitter.

I was well impressed with the depth of standard in the M45.

Congrats on your win

dna_leri

YFlyer wrote: »

Yeah I said hi to you before the race, however I don't think you had a clue who I was.

You're right I didn't at the time sorry but I figured it out a bit later

dna_leri

Since my last race I have been running fairly easy about 3 times a week but to be honest none of them have been much fun or enjoyable - my legs have felt heavy, until today. Today I did 4 laps of a hilly trail route and just bounced along for over 80 mins, picking it up on the last lap. I am not sure if I have recovered a bit of aerobic fitness or just the rest from heavy sessions is finally coming through.

There is not much to report from the last 3 weeks. I did throw in a few fartlek type efforts and strides just to keep the legs ticking over but no hard efforts. Last week work brought me to a small village outside Munich and I found a nice route through corn fields for my morning run. I ended up coming back through the centre of the village past this church and this unusual maypole (?).



I will start to increase my mileage and efforts over the next few weeks, maybe even run a few local road races to see how I get on.

ecoli

dna_leri wrote: »

Last week work brought me to a small village outside Munich

Probably a misinterpretation of your hints about trying to get time off work for some cross country sessions in Phoenix Park.

Cleanman

Pretty decent running.....getting from Sligo to Munich in 80 minutes. That aerobic fitness of yours is coming along nicely!

dna_leri

Still building that aerobic fitness with a few "sessions" as follows:
10-Sept - 12K Fartlek including 2x500m, 2x250m, 3x150m
12-Sept - 15K including 6 x 1M at 6:40 off 1-1.5 mins
15-Sept - Long run - 4 laps of my new favourite trail - first 2 at 21 mins, finishing with 19:40 & 18:40
17-Sept - 13 x 300m in around 65s off 1 min

Was back in Munich area last week, a few days early for the October Fest but at least I got to stay in Erding and sample the local brew. Managed an easy run in the Stadtpark the next morning:





Added an extra bit to my long run today which according to mapmyrun is 3.8 km with 72m of altitude gain each lap. Total distance was 18.2 km with gain of 360m. Picked up the pace in the last 5K.

Thinking about running a 10 mile race next weekend, which is longer than I have ever raced but I will keep it at a steady 6:30-6:40 pace.

BeepBeep67

Nice running - do you ever just run Kev :P

dna_leri

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Nice running - do you ever just run Kev :P

Ah ya, usually manage a 6-8 K recovery run the day after a session but don't like to count mileage.

dna_leri

Training continued in much the same vein last week.
The only runs of note were on Tuesday with 3x1K at 3:45 off 30 secs, followed by 3 uphill strides with walk back and 5x300m in around 69s off 45. Thursday included 3 steady laps of the racecourse with 2 easy ones in between and finished off with 6 strides of 100-150m.

Ran my longest race ever on Sunday - a 10 mile point to point between two of Sligo's coastal towns Strandhill and Rosses Point. My plan was not to race but to maintain a steady tempo in the range 6:30-6:40 and then push on in the last 3 miles if I felt good. I expected there would be a decent group at that speed that I could pace off.

I eased into it with a 6:25 and joined a group with 3 of the leading women (there was another who set off ahead). On the rolling hills into Sligo, the women dropped off 1 by 1, until it was just LB (3 times winner of the Cork City Marathon, now in her 50s) keeping a steady pace around 6:20. I slowed a bit at the mid point as I caught up with one of the club coaches and we talked too much but still stayed around 6:30, though I forgot to click on the half way marker.

After the turn in Sligo, the wind was now on our backs as I pushed on to catch the group ahead which included one of my nemeses. In one of my first races, he finished just ahead of me and turned around afterwards and said "you'll just have to train harder". He has not finished ahead of me since. As I coasted past him at 7 miles, I was tempted but held my counsel.

In the last few miles, I joined back up with LB and by now we were catching the leading woman. With less than a mile to go, I asked did she want to push on and catch her but she did not respond. I finished strong with a 5:51 mile, closing in on the lead woman but did not get into a sprint finish - no point in looking like a plonker trying to avoid being chicked!

The mile paces were: 6:25, 6:18, 6:16, 6:26, 6:30, 6:30, 6:20, 6:16, 6:07, 5:51 for an overall 1:03. A bit faster than planned but I still felt good afterwards. A dip in the cool Atlantic probably helped the recovery too. I would like to think that with the right training, I could run sub 60 for 10 mile but not this year.

dna_leri

Tuesday, I ran slow for over 1 hour 23 mins around the football fields.
Although I'm sure running on grass is better than roads, I nearly died of boredom.
Time to start some faster stuff.

So on Thursday I did the first Tempo Run of my base training.
Plan was 5K at about 3:42 /km along the riverside trail.
Total was about 14.5K including 5K in 17:50.
It was a tough run on my own but and I still felt strong at the end.
It was a great evening for running and I enjoyed that.

dna_leri

Last year I got into a habit of doing weights and gym work on Saturday evening followed by a long run the next morning with tiredness and usually DOMs in my legs. I have decided to keep the same formula for this year and as it was only my 2nd weights session in a few months, I was not surprised with the DOMs, especially in my hips and glutes. I also did a few plyos at the end, including single leg hops.

I kept my 90 min trail run at an easy pace but still included plenty of up-hills. At two different times, I went over on my left ankle but each time I let out a yelp but kept going and "ran it off". I remember thinking to myself that all these trail runs must be giving me more flexibility as well as strength in my ankles.

I thought nothing more of it until 3-4 hours later when I sat down for a few minutes and got up with a sharp pain in my ankle as if I had just twisted it badly. I don't why it flared up so suddenly but nothing I could do made a difference. What was worse, I was just starting to cook the dinner. I looked some sight hopping around the kitchen on my one good leg - I could not put any weight on my left leg. The pain was so bad I felt nauseous and could not even stomach a pain killer.

Eventually I got the family fed and got myself to the sofa with an ice pack which numbed it somewhat. I then managed some ibuprofen which seemed to help a lot. More RICE followed for the rest of the evening and by bedtime I could put some weight down on it. The miraculous improvement has continued overnight and I am now walking normally. I will take a rest day today and continue the treatment.

Although I went over on the ankle during the trail run, the injury may have been related to upping the intensity last week also, especially those plyos which as I warned someone else on here, have to be taken slowly and treated with respect.

dna_leri

As I head into my next training cycle, it's a good time to take a look back over the year and see what went well (or badly). I had a great indoor season with a 2:02.45 800m indoor national age-group record and had hoped to knock a second or so off that outdoors and challenge the outdoor age-group record of 2:01.5x

I think my training went well. I had no injuries, I eased back when I felt a few twinges and managed the potentials without taking more than a day off.

After the indoor season I did 10 weeks of base building from March to May, building up my long runs, some good tempo run and a few sessions where I tried to maintain my speed. At the end I ran a PB for 5K - 16:29 on a slight downhill course.

I then did a 5 week speed development phase, which did its job but I felt brought me to the edge of injury at times. It probably was too much of a shock to the system. At the end of that I opened my season with a 2:06 800m.

Three weeks later I reaped the benefits of the speed development work as I surprised myself with a masters PB over 400m of 55.08s, which indicated a 2:01 800m was not out of reach, speed-wise. A key session was a series of 600m repeats which seemed to work well before the indoors - going from 6 at just over mile pace to 2 at 800m with increasing recoveries. I kept a long run but often added in mile reps in the middle or strides at the end.

I ran a mile PB before the end of July, without going flat out. I did an 800 in 2:05 a few weeks later and then into my target race (National Masters 800m) which I won with a sprint finish in a slower time in a tactical race in poor conditions.

Although all the indicators were good (5K PB, mile PB, 400m PB) I did not come close to 2:02 outdoors, never mind 2:01. When I try to assess why, I am not sure. It feels like I was under-raced and by most standards 5 races would not be enough to reach a peak. However in the indoors, I opened with a 2:05 and hit 2:02 in my second race. I do not think I missed anything in my training. Of course I could always run bigger mileage and maybe that's what it takes to even maintain current levels. I do feel the speed development phase was a risk that I probably would not repeat.

In the end I think I just did not put myself into enough hard races, or when I did I was not in the right mindset to bust a gut. I don't think I ever really tried to break 2:02 so it was probably more psychological than physical.

Also I think indoor running suits me - accurate pacing every 200m, the (lack of) weather conditions, leaning into the bends and driving off them. I can't wait to get back to Athlone. So that's my next target, win the indoor masters again in January, the double double (indoor and out, 2 years in a row). I should set a target to beat this year's record and put it out of reach for a while but I have to get my head ready to suffer the pain first.

After that I will reassess plans again, maybe do something different from the 800m next year.

dna_leri

After my ankle scare last weekend, I rested Monday. By Tuesday I was able for a 60 min easy run with no after effects. Kept it easy on Wednesday and was up for a tempo Thursday.

Last week I did 2.5 laps of just under 2K along the Riverside walk. Weather conditions were good, just a light breeze which at times felt warm in the cool evening. Plan was for 3 laps in about 7:15 this week. Actuals were 7:22, 7:24 & 7:14 - good enough. I maintained form well and finished strong.

pconn062

Glad to hear the ankle is better, good luck with the next training cycle.

dna_leri

I ran my annual Cross Country race last Sunday. In fact it had been 18 months since my last confession at the altar of pain that is cross country. For my penance I did 8K of ankle deep slogging in the mud and cow sh1te.

The Connacht Senior Cross Country is being run off as a 3 day team event this year with Masters, Novices etc all counting on the team scores. This was the 2nd race and with some of the better guys deferring to DCM, the standard was down from the previous race.

There were some heavy rain showers earlier in the day and with the juvenile events on first the course was always going to be heavy but mercifully the rain stayed off for the senior race. We had 8 laps of approx 1K each to contend. We started on the uphill and I ran wide to get some traction but we were immediately squelching in the muck. Surprisingly the worst bit was at the top of the hill. Then there was a nice but slippery downhill, followed by a half-decent grassy section in the lower field before we neaded back up again.

The first lap was just under 1 km in 3:40, which I thought seemed a reasonable pace at the time, ha. By now the leaders had pulled ahead and I was a few metres behind one of my training partners and another guy from a neighbouring club that I don't like to lose to. I worked to join them and we kind of worked together for the next few laps and slowly eased away from our competitor. I thought we would have dropped him quicker but neither of us seemed to be able to up the pace. In fact my lap times were now well over 4 mins and getting slower. At one point, I was going so wide to avoid the muck that my clubmate thought I was going to miss the turn completely and he pointed me back in the direction of the course - "this way!".

With one lap to go we had 10-15m lead on our rival who had now been joined by another runner. My clubmate said something about trying to make a break up the hill, I told him to push on and I would wait for the downhill. He was not able to up the pace much and I made my move with about 800m to go. I was surprised the legs responded quite well and was able to stretch out to the finish

According to the results I finished 11th overall, 3rd Master and 2nd for the club - hopefully keeping us in contention for the team event.


I had some aches in my hamstrings later that day and general tiredness but a lazy bank holiday Monday had me ready to tackle my first track session of the winter on Tuesday. I debated what kind of session to kick off with before settling on 12x300m with similar time recoveries - 300s are probably my favourite distance for track workouts.

The first 3 reps were all 58.x and without trying too hard I picked it up to 56.x for the next 6. On the 10th one I concentrated on driving down with my leg (into the ground) and the next rep times dropped to 54.x before finishing with a 53.6s. Recoveries averaged 59s. Although I have a long way to go with speed, I was happy with the progression within the session.

I finished with 30 min of circuits on the outdoor gym equipment - 4 sets of dips, overhead press, pull-ups, squats with jogging in between. Not as racked with DOMS as I expected today but maybe they are just very delayed.

I'm still not sure how often I will be updating this log going forward but for now I'll update when I can.