McQuaid nominated unanimously by Switzerland (read warning post #78)

morana · 16-05-2013 03:34PM

Beasty wrote: »

I will say fair play to 12 sprocket for coming on here to try to defend McQuaid's record. I may not agree with his views, but that is exactly what democracy is about. Allowing people to take informed views is critical, and it's important to hear both sides of every story

However what amazes me is the complete lack of support for McQuaid within the cycling community in Ireland - 12 sprocket you are one of the exceptions, along with a handful of others who have posted on this forum. I respect your rights to express your views, but whenever I interact either online or in real life with people on the subject they either have little interest (which again is fair enough), or express dismay that McQuaid continues to lead this sport. Comments on social media from outside Ireland are equally damning - it seems the people who support him are those tasked with finding a way to get him re-elected

He stands by his record - a record of turning a blind eye to doping as evidenced by RobFowl's link above. What exactly has he done for the sport since he came to power? - yes there have been initiaties to expand within new geographies (often those that carry voting rights for Presidential elections:rolleyes:). How has he benefited women's cycling for example? I know they evened up medals at the Olympics, but I'm not sure that was at the behest of the UCI. What exactly is his manifesto? More of the same it seems - which appears to me to continue the slow decline of this sport

insinuating that we are knifing anybody anywhere is insulting to me. I had that at the board meeting of the 12th and I didn't take it there and certainly wont take it here.

Beasty · 16-05-2013 03:50PM

morana wrote: »

insinuating that we are knifing anybody anywhere is insulting to me. I had that at the board meeting of the 12th and I didn't take it there and certainly wont take it here.

I agree with you entirely morana - I was getting more at posts 12 sprocket and others had made in other threads attempting to defend McQuaid's record than anything looking to attack his critics with sweeping statements like the one you referred to

At least those against him McQuaid's nomination have usually backed their arguments up with facts and considered arguments. Those who defend him seem to struggle on this front

Junior · 16-05-2013 04:56PM

EGM to go ahead, status of the nomination .. I don't know ..

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/Nomination-of-Mr-Pat-McQuaid.aspx

fixie fox · 16-05-2013 05:05PM

Beasty wrote: »

I will say fair play to 12 sprocket for coming on here to try to defend McQuaid's record. I may not agree with his views, but that is exactly what democracy is about. Allowing people to take informed views is critical, and it's important to hear both sides of every story

However what amazes me is the complete lack of support for McQuaid within the cycling community in Ireland - 12 sprocket you are one of the exceptions, along with a handful of others who have posted on this forum. I respect your rights to express your views, but whenever I interact either online or in real life with people on the subject they either have little interest (which again is fair enough), or express dismay that McQuaid continues to lead this sport. Comments on social media from outside Ireland are equally damning - it seems the people who support him are those tasked with finding a way to get him re-elected

He stands by his record - a record of turning a blind eye to doping as evidenced by RobFowl's link above. What exactly has he done for the sport since he came to power? - yes there have been initiaties to expand within new geographies (often those that carry voting rights for Presidential elections:rolleyes:). How has he benefited women's cycling for example? I know they evened up medals at the Olympics, but I'm not sure that was at the behest of the UCI. What exactly is his manifesto? More of the same it seems - which appears to me to continue the slow decline of this sport

"However what amazes me is the complete lack of support for McQuaid within the cycling community in Ireland".

What is the evidence for this statement? Boards like this are not representative and I think there was a 50/50 chance that he could have carried the EGM. Even though I lobbied my club for a no vote, unsubstantiated claims like that don't help the cause.

12 sprocket · 16-05-2013 05:25PM

Beasty wrote: »

I
More of the same it seems - which appears to me to continue the slow decline of this sport

Beasty your line above and Morana statement that I was deluded probably sums up why supporters of Mc Quaid don't post here. If anyone supports Mc Quaid he or she gets a bit of a lashing iand then theres a reluctance to give credit or face facts...... "you say the slow decline of this sport" have you not seen the amount of people cycling now in Ireland and all around the world..

THere are more people racing in Ireland now than I have ever seen before, TV audiences and spectators at major pro races are huge. so its not at all true to say the sport is in decline, quite the opposite in fact.hopefully it will get even stronger over the next few years.

Mycroft H · 16-05-2013 05:32PM

12 sprocket wrote: »

Beasty your line above and Morana statement that I was deluded probably sums up why supporters of Mc Quaid don't post here. If anyone supports Mc Quaid he or she gets a bit of a lashing iand then theres a reluctance to give credit or face facts...... "you say the slow decline of this sport" have you not seen the amount of people cycling now in Ireland and all around the world..

THere are more people racing in Ireland now than I have ever seen before, TV audiences and spectators at major pro races are huge. so its not at all true to say the sport is in decline, quite the opposite in fact.hopefully it will get even stronger over the next few years.

Neither Pat McQuaid or the UCI has made me or my mates take up cycling. It was either a desire to get fit or looking at the TdF and saying that looks fun.

I'd say most are like me.

buffalo · 16-05-2013 05:34PM

I strongly believe that it should be for our national federations around the world to decide democratically on their next president.

Pat McQuaid, believer in selective democracy?

2011abc · 16-05-2013 05:47PM

kenmc wrote: »

MOD VOICE:quoting deleted post

Very eloquent indeed !A good spokesman for your 'crusade' .Id bet Pat McQuaid was working for cycling when you were in nappies if not long beforehand .Show some respect!Id bet half the posters here (for sure the one above) have never even HEARD of the Nissan Classic /Kellogs Criterium Series etc .
To the poster who suggested Pat has no support(ers) that is incorrect .I repeat that I have met both Anto and Pat and formed the impression both were true gentlemen in their own dfferent ways .
I will admit to not being at the cutting edge of knowledge on the whole cycling doping fiasco/tragedy -frankly it saddens me .But the fervour with which many have turned on the greatest cycling administrator/manager/organiser that irish cycling has ever known is sickening.The man deserves a LOT more respect for his achievements over many decades regardless of any percieved 'failings' since his appointment to the world #1 position.I continue to be proud of the fact that an irishman holds that post.

Mycroft H · 16-05-2013 05:49PM

I will admit to not being at the cutting edge of knowledge on the whole cycling doping fiasco/tragedy -frankly it saddens me .But the fervour with which many have turned on the greatest cycling administrator/manager/organiser that irish cycling has ever known is sickening.The man deserves a LOT more respect for his achievements over many decades regardless of any percieved 'failings' since his appointment to the world #1 position.I continue to be proud of the fact that an irishman holds that post.

The fact that they were implicit in covering up dopers is more than enough to make me disown him.

Beasty · 16-05-2013 06:12PM

fixie fox wrote: »

"However what amazes me is the complete lack of support for McQuaid within the cycling community in Ireland".

What is the evidence for this statement? Boards like this are not representative and I think there was a 50/50 chance that he could have carried the EGM. Even though I lobbied my club for a no vote, unsubstantiated claims like that don't help the cause.

I am going on what I see here, what I know has happened at other clubs when petitioning for an EGM, what I saw at the AGM, and my extensive discussions with cyclists at all levels (up to ex-Olympic cyclists). I have come across one individual in my own club that supports McQuaid, I witnessed 3 or 4 who spoke at the AGM and can count on the fingers of one hand the numbers of others (in addition to those posting here) I know who have anything supportive to say about him

On the other hand I have come across scores of people in real life and many more on Boards and elsewhere on social media that frankly have absolutely nothing positive to say about him. Admitedly not statistical sampling in the proper sense, but persuasive in my own mind

dave_o_brien · 16-05-2013 06:18PM

2011abc wrote: »

Very eloquent indeed !A good spokesman for your 'crusade' .Id bet Pat McQuaid was working for cycling when you were in nappies if not long beforehand .Show some respect!Id bet half the posters here (for sure the one above) have never even HEARD of the Nissan Classic /Kellogs Criterium Series etc .
To the poster who suggested Pat has no support(ers) that is incorrect .I repeat that I have met both Anto and Pat and formed the impression both were true gentlemen in their own dfferent ways .
I will admit to not being at the cutting edge of knowledge on the whole cycling doping fiasco/tragedy -frankly it saddens me .But the fervour with which many have turned on the greatest cycling administrator/manager/organiser that irish cycling has ever known is sickening.The man deserves a LOT more respect for his achievements over many decades regardless of any percieved 'failings' since his appointment to the world #1 position.I continue to be proud of the fact that an irishman holds that post.

Most people would acknowledge that he has a strong history of promoting cycling in Ireland.

Some would also support his work in globalisation for cycling.

He has so much to be proud of in his career.

That doesn't hide his failings as the president of the uci. Given his shortcomings, which are numerous and outlined elsewhere, why should we support appointing him to that position again?

Pointing to his nationality has on bearing on my objection. I am proud am Irish man got the job. It's a shame once he got it, he failed to live up to its responsibilities. It's utterly shameful no other contenders have come forward.

Beasty · 16-05-2013 06:37PM

BX 19 wrote: »

Neither Pat McQuaid or the UCI has made me or my mates take up cycling. It was either a desire to get fit or looking at the TdF and saying that looks fun.

I'd say most are like me.

T'was Boards that got me into cycling;)

Also I would give more credit to the Greens for introducing the BTW scheme than Pat McQuaid in terms of boosting cycling in Ireland

And in terms of the comments made by 12 sprocket, I was referring to the sport of cycling - admitedly I did not specify at a pro level, but that is what I was getting at, and the behaviour of Armstrong, Contador, Frank Schleck, Vinokourov and the like have done nothing to promote it.

Even the exploits of Team GB have been primarily driven by their track programme - road racing may have seen some knock on benefits from the likes of Wiggins progressing to the pro peloton, but I give credit to Dave Brailsford ahead of Pat McQuaid for that

High Nellie · 16-05-2013 06:46PM

Beasty wrote: »

I am going on what I see here, what I know has happened at other clubs when petitioning for an EGM, what I saw at the AGM, and my extensive discussions with cyclists at all levels (up to ex-Olympic cyclists). I have come across one individual in my own club that supports McQuaid, I witnessed 3 or 4 who spoke at the AGM and can count on the fingers of one hand the numbers of others (in addition to those posting here) I know who have anything supportive to say about him

On the other hand I have come across scores of people in real life and many more on Boards and elsewhere on social media that frankly have absolutely nothing positive to say about him. Admitedly not statistical sampling in the proper sense, but persuasive in my own mind

Was it not reported in credible media that opinion at the AGM was pretty evenly divided? If so, how does translate into 'complete lack of support'. What is 'persuasive in your mind' cannot be presented as fact. I am not having a go - just trying to keep the discussion balanced and credible.

Beasty · 16-05-2013 07:04PM

High Nellie wrote: »

Was it not reported in credible media that opinion at the AGM was pretty evenly divided? If so, how does translate into 'complete lack of support'. What is 'persuasive in your mind' cannot be presented as fact. I am not having a go - just trying to keep the discussion balanced and credible.

But it was clearly a subjective view - it is not something that could ever be presented or interpreted as a "fact" unless a poll was taken of everyone in the Irish cycling community. I thought that would go without saying, and I have now added details of how I came to that view.

Beasty · 16-05-2013 07:10PM

Junior wrote: »

EGM to go ahead, status of the nomination .. I don't know ..

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Home/News/Nomination-of-Mr-Pat-McQuaid.aspx

It may be they think it needs to go ahead because they share the view that his nomination by the Swiss Federation is invalid;)

(and before anyone asks if this is factual, I have no idea - it's entirely speculation as to one possible motive - another may be that they do not believe they can cancel an EGM, but I would disagree with such an analysis - it happens in other companies when the is no longer anything to decide)

dermur · 16-05-2013 07:21PM

Hopefully this news today might stir somebody in action and declare themselves as a candidate.

Somebody who isn't afraid of any repercussions of running against McQuaid.

They will probably need to have the cojones shown by this man...

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/an-open-letter-from-greg-lemond-to-uci-president-pat-mcquaid_262523

CramCycle · 16-05-2013 07:47PM

MOD VOICE: There has been some unsavoury comments in this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether you agree with it or not but the next person to make a joke or serious comment that is either abusive or threatening in anyway will receive an immediate ban.

Any issues please PM me. No more abusive or threatening language, even in jest.

seve65 · 16-05-2013 08:40PM

High Nellie wrote: »

Was it not reported in credible media that opinion at the AGM was pretty evenly divided? If so, how does translate into 'complete lack of support'. What is 'persuasive in your mind' cannot be presented as fact. I am not having a go - just trying to keep the discussion balanced and credible.

I havent ever met anybody who I have asked that supports him ? I still think you just have to look at the unbalanced angles he has taken several times, and the way he spends his time attacking others, sometimes unfairly, and not just dealing in a balanced way with the facts. He may have done lots of good work in the past, but unfortunately that isnt enough. I couldnt care if hes from the moon, its the man and what he is now doing that counts. Now having said all of that maybe I just dont understand how you might need to be a political operator in such environments.

RobFowl · 16-05-2013 09:16PM

dave_o_brien wrote: »

Pointing to his nationality has on bearing on my objection. I am proud am Irish man got the job. It's a shame once he got it, he failed to live up to its responsibilities. It's utterly shameful no other contenders have come forward.

Is he not officially Swiss now though

morana · 16-05-2013 09:18PM

12 sprocket wrote: »

Beasty your line above and Morana statement that I was deluded probably sums up why supporters of Mc Quaid don't post here. If anyone supports Mc Quaid he or she gets a bit of a lashing iand then theres a reluctance to give credit or face facts...... "you say the slow decline of this sport" have you not seen the amount of people cycling now in Ireland and all around the world..

THere are more people racing in Ireland now than I have ever seen before, TV audiences and spectators at major pro races are huge. so its not at all true to say the sport is in decline, quite the opposite in fact.hopefully it will get even stronger over the next few years.

Firstly the surge in irish cyling is down to the bike to work scheme, the 10€ introductory licence and the fact that cycling is a recession activity. Its nothing to do with the uci or mcquaid.

The reason there arent people supporting mcquaid here is because they arent here. If you come on here and insinuate i am knifing anybody anywhere i think its reasonable for me to call you deluded. Do you think the armstrong debacle never happened? Do you think when i asked him in the meeting if he ever suspected la of doping and he answers no only to have that contradicted by hein verbruggen the next day is ok?. I dont happen to think its ok!

All the time i have been talking to people about mcquaid i have always been couteous enough to listen to their reasons for supporting him. I havent heard one which makes me doubt my stance.

morana · 16-05-2013 09:35PM

The egm will go ahead. My only hope is that people turn up and voice their opinion either way (see what i said there 12sprocket) and we finish out the process and we give him a resounding No. Because if we dont turn up he will claim the moral victory.

irishpeloton · 16-05-2013 09:40PM

2011abc wrote: »

... I continue to be proud of the fact that an irishman holds that post.

I wonder are you also proud of the fact that the same Irishman circumvented a democratic process in his own country and will now be representing Switzerland in his role at the UCI.

Donegaler · 16-05-2013 09:55PM

irishpeloton wrote: »

I wonder are you also proud of the fact that the same Irishman circumvented a democratic process in his own country and will now be representing Switzerland in his role at the UCI.

That's how it looks to you.
As I see it Pat McQuaid has achieved his current ambition,to get a nomination.
All the huffing and puffing by a few eloquent bloggers has failed.
Take your beating and leave the silent majority of CI members to get on with their cycling.

buffalo · 16-05-2013 10:04PM

Donegaler wrote: »

Take your beating and leave the silent majority of CI members to get on with their cycling.

I don't think any of this is preventing anyone from cycling, least of all the silent majority, who presumably don't care either way and have been busy cycling all along?

Beasty · 16-05-2013 10:10PM

Donegaler wrote: »

That's how it looks to you.
As I see it Pat McQuaid has achieved his current ambition,to get a nomination.
All the huffing and puffing by a few eloquent bloggers has failed.
Take your beating and leave the silent majority of CI members to get on with their cycling.

So Donegaler - this is your opportunity - why do you think McQuaid is the right person to lead cycling for the next 4 years?

happytramp · 16-05-2013 10:16PM

Donegaler wrote: »

That's how it looks to you.
As I see it Pat McQuaid has achieved his current ambition,to get a nomination.
All the huffing and puffing by a few eloquent bloggers has failed.
Take your beating and leave the silent majority of CI members to get on with their cycling.

Firstly, lets see what the CI members have to say at the EGM. Secondly, I'd hardly describe forcing Pat to crawl in a worm-like fashion to the Swiss because the other boys won't let him play as a beating.

Diarmuid · 16-05-2013 10:35PM

Beasty wrote: »

So Donegaler - this is your opportunity - why do you think McQuaid is the right person to lead cycling for the next 4 years?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjl8OIZijjY

TheBlaaMan · 16-05-2013 10:37PM

Beasty wrote: »

So Donegaler - this is your opportunity - why do you think McQuaid is the right person to lead cycling for the next 4 years?

Popcorn time !

..............looking forward to the response from Donegaler.:rolleyes:

Donegaler · 16-05-2013 10:56PM

buffalo wrote: »

I don't think any of this is preventing anyone from cycling, least of all the silent majority, who presumably don't care either way and have been busy cycling all along?

My position is that the Board of Cycling Ireland recently made a decision about a UCI nomination on its members behalf. They supported Pat McQuaid in his attempt to become President of UCI.
The Board made similar decisions about UCI nominations in the past.
They have been empowered to make such decisions.
I see no reason to question such decisions

Beasty · 16-05-2013 11:00PM

Donegaler wrote: »

My position is that the Board of Cycling Ireland recently made a decision about a UCI nomination on its members behalf. They supported Pat McQuaid in his attempt to become President of UCI.
The Board made similar decisions about UCI nominations in the past.
They have been empowered to make such decisions.
I see no reason to question such decisions

So you agree Presidents of the UCI should serve no more than 2 terms

Pity you cannot come up with any reason to support McQuaid's candidacy. The Board never made any such decision by the way - they agreed to let the clubs decide via an EGM