Why do people still have expensive weddings?

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 04:02PM

Alison Eager Bobsled wrote: »

I think it must be an Irish thing too. I lived in the UK until I was 11 and my mum is English and she would have laughed at me if I said I expected a grand for my 21st/graduation. I also had a party for my 21st where I received no presents or cash, just asked people to bring their own booze and snacks (fine by me, didn't expect any and I was on Erasmus so knew most of the guests were broke) and for my graduation, went out for a nice meal with my parents and that was that. Come to think of it, the only people I know who have asked for cash (or anything else) for their wedding have been Irish. I just find it weird and crass that you seem to be expected to throw loads of money around or be thought of as stingy.

I'm Irish and find it weird and crass, but then I'm not typically Irish in many ways :pac:. I love lots of things about my fellow countrymen/women, but I loathe certain things also-this need to spend lots of money and flash the cash to impress others or as one-upmanship on any and every occasion is definitely one of them.

My ex is English and he told me something similar to what you just wrote-that there is not this expectation of giving lots of money at events like 21st's or weddings over there as there is here. While he likes much about the Irish I know he too finds this need to throw money around (whether you have it or not!) vulgar and crass.

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 04:15PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Because to me discussing the lack of value of a present is the hight of bad manners. I might be old-fashioned, but I was taught that you never ask how much a present cost, you never leave the sticker on to let people see how much you spent, and you never compare the value of two gifts you received.

Well if you're old fashioned so am I because that's exactly how I was raised too. It is indeed about manners. It's also about being thoughtful to the person you're giving the gift to.
And I'm very glad my parents brought me up like that when I read some of the posts on this thread, and not as some entitled, grasping individual who sees a wedding as a chance to cover costs or even to make money on the day :eek:. I find that attitude repulsive quite frankly.

15-05-2013 04:16PM

Greentopia wrote: »

I'm Irish and find it weird and crass, but then I'm not typically Irish in many ways :pac:. I love lots of things about my fellow countrymen/women, but I loathe certain things also-this need to spend lots of money and flash the cash to impress others or as one-upmanship on any and every occasion is definitely one of them.

My ex is English and he told me something similar to what you just wrote-that there is not this expectation of giving lots of money at events like 21st's or weddings over there as there is here. While he likes much about the Irish I know he too finds this need to throw money around (whether you have it or not!) vulgar and crass.

How putting money in a card at a 21st or wedding can be classed as one-upmanship or flashing the cash is beyond me. Only the person themselves and maybe their immediate family will know how much money they got so how can an outsider enter into one-upmanship?

Any generous gifts I received in the past from family members were given to help me along in life not to outdo anybody or flash the cash. Even the suggestion that a private gift that no one knows about is flashing the cash is preposterous.

oldyouth · 15-05-2013 04:28PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

How putting money in a card at a 21st or wedding can be classed as one-upmanship or flashing the cash is beyond me. Only the person themselves and maybe their immediate family will know how much money they got so how can an outsider enter into one-upmanship?

Any generous gifts I received in the past from family members were given to help me along in life not to outdo anybody or flash the cash. Even the suggestion that a private gift that no one knows about is flashing the cash is preposterous.

But it won't be private. You've already pointed out that you and your family and friends often discuss the level of gifts that you are given. Sorry, I mean accidentily overhear from the next room :rolleyes:

southsiderosie · 15-05-2013 04:34PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

so basically you are saying that yes, cash can be given at a wedding and it is acceptable, not considered "irish" or "vulgar"

as far as travel, bridal showers, etc - thats a whole other story - we are talking about giving money as a wedding gift.

It is acceptable to give, but what is at issue here is the behavior of the recipient.

What is vulgar is when people a) expect to get cash, b) make disparaging remarks about the amount of cash they receive, or c) explicitly ask for cash (and don't even get me started on 'honeymoon funds' and the like). The first two are what's being contested on this thread: people not only expect cash, but some expect a significant amount, in part to cover the cost of the wedding. That's crass.

Also the travel involves may affect the amount of money given - and given that people on this thread apparently scoff at people who don't give what they see as 'enough', I can see why people increasingly see going to a wedding as more of a wallet-emptying exercise rather than a celebration of a life-long union.

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 04:36PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

How many times do I have to say that I don't agree with putting "cash only" on a wedding invitation. I have never come across this myself. I do think that cash or a well thought out voucher are by far the most sensible gifts to give though and nowadays cash is the traditional gift to give for a wedding.

Not actually on the invite but I was told as I already wrote previously that my ex wanted money from me when he invited me over for his wedding. I should have told him where to stuff his invite :rolleyes:

It does happen. Maybe not to you, but others have been asked for cash only.

I've already given valid reasons why I don't think cash is the "sensible" gift to give. Read my posts again if you don't get it.

And just because cash has become more popular to give at weddings since the Celtic Tiger (puke) turned many Irish into money grabbing, ostentatious nouveau riche idiots doesn't make something a "tradition".

15-05-2013 04:40PM

oldyouth wrote: »

But it won't be private. You've already pointed out that you and your family and friends often discuss the level of gifts that you are given. Sorry, I mean accidentily overhear from the next room :rolleyes:

That particular time is the only time I got any such information outside of my immediate family and I didn't discuss it with anyone and it really was over heard, if I was told I'd have no problem saying so.

The only people who would know anything about what I have gotten in gifts is my parents and sometimes maybe my sisters, though I don't see how anyone would have a problem with discussing things within the family and they certainly don't discuss it with anyone else either.

15-05-2013 04:43PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

That particular time is the only time I got any such information outside of my immediate family and I didn't discuss it with anyone and it really was over heard, if I was told I'd have no problem saying so.

The only people who would know anything about what I have gotten in gifts is my parents and sometimes maybe my sisters, though I don't see how anyone would have a problem with discussing things within the family and they certainly don't discuss it with anyone else either.

You said yourself that all your friends got loads of money at their 21sts and that's why you expected to get the same.

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 04:46PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

a marquee for 200 people would cost in the region of 5,000 per day ( and this is just the bare marquee - tables/chairs, curtains, soft drink area, toilets, insurance are all extras. A marquee is definitely NOT a cheap option. (from experience)

€5000 a day?

I'm clearly in the wrong business if people are prepared to spend that kind of money on a glorified tent. Well as I said there's no way I can imagine my friends spending that kind of money on a marquee so they obviously got it somehow on the cheap.

They're British, maybe they got it cheaper over there before the wedding, maybe they got one 2nd hand here or on Ebay? (likely), maybe they made one themselves! no idea.

They supplied most if not all the items you mention themselves -chairs/tables, curtains, toilets in the house. Insurance I guess had to be paid for if they rented the marquee.

15-05-2013 04:50PM

Alison Eager Bobsled wrote: »

You said yourself that all your friends got loads of money at their 21sts and that's why you expected to get the same.

I never said any of us told each other what we got though.

What I said was the tradition where I'm from is that you give 21 euro to the person who is celebrating their birthday, I would imagine this is the tradition throughout Ireland. Any 21st I was at I did the same (except one or two close friends who got more) and I know for a fact all my friends gave money at every 21st they went to along with all the other people attending so its hardly difficult to work out that people make a nice bit of money at their 21st. I'd also add my 21st was one of the first of my group of friends so I was basing it more on the tradition rather than anything that I would end up with some money after the event.

I also don't see why this is a problem, I think its a good thing, I never saw anyone complaining about getting money for their 21st. Its a big event and its nice to come out of it with some money. I never had a problem putting money in card for someones 21st and I've done it many many times.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 15-05-2013 04:55PM

Alun wrote: »

My niece got married recently and asked for cash only. I had absolutely no problem with that as they have been living together for the last 2 years, have a nice little house equipped with everything they need already, and have no need for any additional toasters, sets of crockery, crystal glasses or any of the stuff we got when we got married. I imagine they'd have been pretty hard pushed to come up with a list of any size of any other stuff they needed.

At the reception they had an ornamental birdcage that guests put their envelopes in, no queueing required.

Omg, to me that's practically charging people to go to a party with **** food and even ****ter entertainment. How rude!!

Cienciano · 15-05-2013 04:58PM

Cash is the best gift imho. Anyone who got married over the past 10 years probably has 10 baby blue newbridge silver boxes that have never been opened.

fishy fishy · 15-05-2013 05:01PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

It is acceptable to give, but what is at issue here is the behavior of the recipient.

What is vulgar is when people a) expect to get cash, b) make disparaging remarks about the amount of cash they receive, or c) explicitly ask for cash (and don't even get me started on 'honeymoon funds' and the like). The first two are what's being contested on this thread: people not only expect cash, but some expect a significant amount, in part to cover the cost of the wedding. That's crass.

Also the travel involves may affect the amount of money given - and given that people on this thread apparently scoff at people who don't give what they see as 'enough', I can see why people increasingly see going to a wedding as more of a wallet-emptying exercise rather than a celebration of a life-long union.

the thing is south side - this does not happen - people don't expect a certain amount - they don't biatch about what they get, they don't ask for cash, they don't write it on their invites - these "excuses" are all for "arguments sake" - it doesn't happen like that - posting on boards that it does doesn't make it true.

You do know that brides/grooms have more of a chance of biatching about the cheap dinner set that they got which they saw in kmart on sale for 50% off last christmas and that the "tight" guests had it in their house for years and couldn't wait to get rid of if. Oh wait.......no that could never happen - every wedding gift is completely thought out and 100% effort put into it. Oh look.....a pig just flew by my window.

:D

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 15-05-2013 05:02PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

I never said any of us told each other what we got though.

What I said was the tradition where I'm from is that you give 21 euro to the person who is celebrating their birthday, I would imagine this is the tradition throughout Ireland. Any 21st I was at I did the same (except one or two close friends who got more) and I know for a fact all my friends gave money at every 21st they went to along with all the other people attending so its hardly difficult to work out that people make a nice bit of money at their 21st. I'd also add my 21st was one of the first of my group of friends so I was basing it more on the tradition rather than anything that I would end up with some money after the event.

I also don't see why this is a problem, I think its a good thing, I never saw anyone complaining about getting money for their 21st. Its a big event and its nice to come out of it with some money. I never had a problem putting money in card for someones 21st and I've done it many many times.

It's not the tradition in Ireland, I'm Irish, have been Irish all my life and at the ripe ole age of 24, have been to many many 21st parties, and tbh the only people who gave me money/presents for my birthday were close family. I went for a meal with my friends, where everyone paid for their own dinner and onto a party later, and while I got people buying me drinks the entire night, nobody I asked bought presents and they werent expected to. I had a great birthday, a great turn out and an amazing night.

In fact, inviting my neighbours the morning of the party went something like "having a few drinks in XX later, for my birthday, Y down the road is coming, come on in for the craic and don't be bothering with any of that present nonsense cause it's not a party it's just a few drinks". I wanted people I liked to be there, and I know for a fact the cost of these things can put people off going, when in reality all as you want is a good ole knees up.

Same with my friends 21sts, but the birthday boy/girl a drink or a shot or whatever, and that's how it's done.

15-05-2013 05:11PM

LexieOnRale wrote: »

It's not the tradition in Ireland, I'm Irish, have been Irish all my life and at the ripe ole age of 24, have been to many many 21st parties, and tbh the only people who gave me money/presents for my birthday were close family. I went for a meal with my friends, where everyone paid for their own dinner and onto a party later, and while I got people buying me drinks the entire night, nobody I asked bought presents and they werent expected to. I had a great birthday, a great turn out and an amazing night.

In fact, inviting my neighbours the morning of the party went something like "having a few drinks in XX later, for my birthday, Y down the road is coming, come on in for the craic and don't be bothering with any of that present nonsense cause it's not a party it's just a few drinks". I wanted people I liked to be there, and I know for a fact the cost of these things can put people off going, when in reality all as you want is a good ole knees up.

Same with my friends 21sts, but the birthday boy/girl a drink or a shot or whatever, and that's how it's done.

Well in Galway and Mayo which are the places I've attended all the 21st I've been to things work the way I described.

A lot (including my own) involved booking the function room in the local hotel, booking a DJ and having finger food followed by a big house party back at the house. Other 21st's involved booking out sections of pubs etc rather than the hotel. I've been at 21st's where the function room was packed in the hotel and in all the 21st I've been too which is a lot between close friends, neigbours, friends of my sisters friends etc cards were handed to the person and I can guarantee you there was money inside them as its the done thing.

So in my opinion due to the sheer number of 21st's that have happened in the way I describe (many I was invited to and didn't go and ones I just say taking place on top of the ones I attended) I would have to say it is a tradition.

Sittingpretty · 15-05-2013 05:15PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

If threads could commit suicide, I think this one would....

Legendary comment of the day

cuilteanna · 15-05-2013 05:18PM

I DID receive a wedding invitation with "cash only" explicitly written from one of my cousins. I was so annoyed by it that I went out and bought a gift (declining the invitation wasn't an option).

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 05:20PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

How putting money in a card at a 21st or wedding can be classed as one-upmanship or flashing the cash is beyond me. Only the person themselves and maybe their immediate family will know how much money they got so how can an outsider enter into one-upmanship?

Oldyouth got in there before me-of course it won't be just the immediate family who will know how much is given (which I think is bad enough in itself, gifts and money should be kept to oneself not spread around to family members to gossip about-because there will always be one who will be indiscrete and gossip or let slip to others and then it's not just family members who know). If you think otherwise you're either not very... perceptive, or you know quite well that people talk among themselves about how much so-and-so has given. Especially at these kind of family events.

And this thing of giving money raises expectations in society that money should be given at these events-that it's the done thing-and then you have a situation whereby people feel obliged to give whether they want to or not (or have it to give or not). It also creates a situation of one-upmanship because many people are stupid and will try and out do whatever sum of money is expected for any number of reasons-to curry favour, to be seen as wealthy enough to be able to throw lots of money around, to show off to their friends and family.

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

Any generous gifts I received in the past from family members were given to help me along in life not to outdo anybody or flash the cash. Even the suggestion that a private gift that no one knows about is flashing the cash is preposterous.

Good for you. Obviously people do also give gifts from altruistic motives, but your suggestion that giving a 'private gift' (which as I've explained will likely not be private for very long at all) is never about flashing the cash is absurd. I think you know full well people do this all the time but it doesn't suit your argument to admit it.

You only have to look at how ridiculous the amount of money that is given to kids at communion and confirmation in this country. Some kids end up getting thousands! That's all done only to "help them along in life" as well is it?

...along with the bouncy castles, hired cars, fake tans etc. Of course not. It's a lot to do with relatives trying to meet unreal expectations as I've said and trying to outdo one another.

It would never have gotten to this absurd and sad level if it was all about giving the kids a few bob to spend on themselves.

15-05-2013 05:28PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Oldyouth got in there before me-of course it won't be just the immediate family who will know how much is given (which I think is bad enough in itself, gifts and money should be kept to oneself not spread around to family members to gossip about-because there will always be one who will be indiscrete and gossip or let slip to others and then it's not just family members who know). If you think otherwise you're either not very... perceptive, or you know quite well that people talk among themselves about how much so-and-so has given. Especially at these kind of family events.

And this thing of giving money raises expectations in society that money should be given at these events-that it's the done thing-and then you have a situation whereby people feel obliged to give whether they want to or not (or have it to give or not). It also creates a situation of one-upmanship because many people are stupid and will try and out do whatever sum of money is expected for any number of reasons-to curry favour, to be seen as wealthy enough to be able to throw lots of money around, to show off to their friends and family.

Good for you. Obviously people do also give gifts from altruistic motives, but your suggestion that giving a 'private gift' (which as I've explained will likely not be private for very long at all) is never about flashing the cash is absurd. I think you know full well people do this all the time but it doesn't suit your argument to admit it.

I cant comment on anyone else but I can guarantee you 100% that nobody outside of my home knows anything that's discussed in private among us.

doolox · 15-05-2013 05:31PM

...for most unmonied people, expensive weddings are a crock of illogical sh1t. I know that my parents devoted 1 day to their wedding. They had the reception in a local pub in Manchester, where both lived, and were back to work the following Monday.

No expensive and pointless nonsense with Hotels, foreign honeymoons etc.

I did have a reception for 100 people, a 10-day honeymoon in Italy, and I had a good time on about less than 10k euro.

Conventional weddings came about in the middle ages when weddings cemented alliances between families with wealth and land at stake.

Modern methods of wealth arbitration and alliances make expensive weddings obsolete and pointless.

We need to save every penny.

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 05:35PM

Cienciano wrote: »

Cash is the best gift imho. Anyone who got married over the past 10 years probably has 10 baby blue newbridge silver boxes that have never been opened.

Then they lack thought and imagination. I've been to a few weddings and gave gifts that I put a lot of thought into buying or making to tailor them to what I think the bride and groom would like/what I know they need. Never once did I resort to the lazy newbridge cutlery option.

That's like saying "I don't give a sh1t what you like or what you need, here is what you'll get because I can't be bothered/don't care what you really want, this was the easy option for me to buy and you'll accept it graciously with a smile on your face!".

Unless of course Newbridge cutlery is something specifically asked for on a wedding list.

And for reasons already given cash is crass and inappropriate IMHO.

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 05:45PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

I cant comment on anyone else but I can guarantee you 100% that nobody outside of my home knows anything that's discussed in private among us.

There's is no way you can be that sure. It's foolhardy to think so IMO as someone can always inadvertently even let something slip. But if you believe that, no problem

Cienciano · 15-05-2013 05:52PM

Greentopia wrote: »

Then they lack thought and imagination. I've been to a few weddings and gave gifts that I put a lot of thought into buying or making to tailor them to what I think the bride and groom would like/what I know they need. Never once did I resort to the lazy newbridge cutlery option.

That's like saying "I don't give a sh1t what you like or what you need, here is what you'll get because I can't be bothered/don't care what you really want, this was the easy option for me to buy and you'll accept it graciously with a smile on your face!".

Unless of course Newbridge cutlery is something specifically asked for on a wedding list.

And for reasons already given cash is crass and inappropriate IMHO.

A thoughtful present is great. But in the real world, if you have about 40 couples and 20 single people going to a wedding with 100 people at it, you won't get 60 thoughtful useful presents. Easier to just ask for cash. A wedding list is pretty much cash. No thought for the person buying, but they have to go out and buy it.
Homemade stuff can be the worst. My mate is a painter and did this horrible picture of a clown crying for him. It's big, A1 size. The worst thing about it, is they have to hang it up even though they don't like it because the guy who gave it calls over regularly. They hung it with pride in the jacks!
IMHO, give whatever the couple ask for. If you can't afford anything, tell them. If you're afraid they'll think you're a cheapskate, it's only 1 of 2 things. Either the couple are arseholes, or you're paranoid! Any couple that invites someone to a wedding and call you cheap cos you didn't give enough aren't worth a second thought.

15-05-2013 05:54PM

Greentopia wrote: »

There's is no way you can be that sure. It's foolhardy to think so IMO as someone can always inadvertently even let something slip. But if you believe that, no problem

Yes I can be sure, my parents aren't idiots and neither am I, on the contrary to what you are suggesting they would very much want to keep this sort of thing private as would I. I don't know what sort of relationship people have with their parents but we discuss private matters from time to time (the other way around also, they have no problem discussing things with me) and none of us would dream of talking about it to anyone else.

15-05-2013 05:54PM

MY God how is this Thread not closed a long time ago ?

I've seen far more sensible discussions closed after 3 pages!!!

I only noticed it on the new posts link.

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 06:22PM

Alison Eager Bobsled wrote: »

Keep implying I'm envious all you want, I really don't care. I grew up around plenty of rich people which is why I'm perhaps not as impressed by money as some people seem to be.

Likewise. Also-some of the wealthiest people I know have often also had small or quirky/charming/ not run of the mill weddings. They realise perhaps the limitations of money and what money doesn't buy-class or good taste.

Big Mouth · 15-05-2013 06:22PM

Some amount of bitter people on this thread. Most of you seemed to have spent a fiver on your wedding :rolleyes: and "everyone said it was the best wedding they've ever been to". Did you cater the event with a giant pack of Monster Munch?

We're having an expensive wedding with a small amount of guests. Quality over quantity for us I won't horrify people on here with the amount but we certainly won't be making a profit (who would think like that?), what we are doing is making a weekend out of it for our family and close friends because we are very close to all our siblings, their partners etc and everyone is going to a 5 star hotel for what should be a great weekend and out of the norm.

Everyone is really looking forward to it and we're laying on the best of everything because you only have one wedding and yes I presume most gifts will be cash as we already live together but I have mde it very clear that no one is under pressure to give more than the are comfortable with as I would know people on my sides circumstance and OH knows hers (I wouldn;t take a brown penny of my younger sister)

Judging by the tone of some of the posts here they seem bitter about money, maybe haven't got a close family.....those posters would hate my wedding and I would hate theirs.

I don't want hand made "thoughtful" gifts and I will enjoy splashing out but that doesn't make me a show-off, ours is a low key event not a facebook advert. I personally hate the show off type of person with over extravagant, ostentatious weddings, not me at all however I can't stand the if you spend big money on a wedding so you're an arsehole.

Finance wise I will need a few business deals to come off over the year to get costs back but I'm not too bothered as I'd rather have a good time and no money than a bad time with lots of money.

southsiderosie · 15-05-2013 06:28PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

the thing is south side - this does not happen - people don't expect a certain amount - they don't biatch about what they get, they don't ask for cash, they don't write it on their invites - these "excuses" are all for "arguments sake" - it doesn't happen like that - posting on boards that it does doesn't make it true.

You do know that brides/grooms have more of a chance of biatching about the cheap dinner set that they got which they saw in kmart on sale for 50% off last christmas and that the "tight" guests had it in their house for years and couldn't wait to get rid of if. Oh wait.......no that could never happen - every wedding gift is completely thought out and 100% effort put into it. Oh look.....a pig just flew by my window. :D

If you don't think that there is an epidemic of spendthrift gift-grubbing brides and grooms (in the US anyway), then you should pay more attention to bridal publications and advice columns on the subject. I read them because I find them hilarious, but it is truly insane.

oldyouth · 15-05-2013 06:35PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

That particular time is the only time I got any such information outside of my immediate family and I didn't discuss it with anyone and it really was over heard, if I was told I'd have no problem saying so.

The only people who would know anything about what I have gotten in gifts is my parents and sometimes maybe my sisters, though I don't see how anyone would have a problem with discussing things within the family and they certainly don't discuss it with anyone else either.

There's a saying around these parts, "When you're in a hole, stop digging"

Greentopia · 15-05-2013 06:43PM

Cienciano wrote: »

A thoughtful present is great. But in the real world, if you have about 40 couples and 20 single people going to a wedding with 100 people at it, you won't get 60 thoughtful useful presents. Easier to just ask for cash. A wedding list is pretty much cash.

Not it's not. I don't like requests for cash or gifts tbh but having a list in front of me means I can pick something at least I know the couple will like, and will also be within my budget.
A cash request is for a minimum amount that's expected. An amount over and above what than I may have to give! Big difference.

Cienciano wrote: »

Homemade stuff can be the worst. My mate is a painter and did this horrible picture of a clown crying for him. It's big, A1 size. The worst thing about it, is they have to hang it up even though they don't like it because the guy who gave it calls over regularly. They hung it with pride in the jacks!

If it was a commission your mate should have asked for their money back or the painting redone. If it was a gift the painter obviously didn't know your mate's taste very well or he's not a very good artist

either way I wouldn't have something I didn't like hanging up in my house just to spare someone's feelings who obviously didn't care enough about or was oblivious to what I wanted in my home.

Cienciano wrote: »

IMHO, give whatever the couple ask for. If you can't afford anything, tell them. If you're afraid they'll think you're a cheapskate, it's only 1 of 2 things. Either the couple are arseholes, or you're paranoid! Any couple that invites someone to a wedding and call you cheap cos you didn't give enough aren't worth a second thought.

I didn't say I can't afford anything, I just won't be emotionally blackmailed into giving cash. And as I also stated, and the main reason-I won't give cash because it's not what I was brought up to believe is the done thing.

Why do people still have expensive weddings?

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