Why do people still have expensive weddings?

Sittingpretty · 15-05-2013 01:41PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

The English are known to be stingy though when it comes to this sort of thing though. I remember a friend who got married a few years ago telling me she had friends back from England. Very well off bankers etc and some gave 30 and 40 pounds as gifts while lots of normal people from Ireland with no big incomes were giving 200 or 300 euro

People giving big sums of money when they're not on big incomes is not generous, it's stupid and it's pressure propagated by the expectation of lavish gifts that is apparently "what's done".

If that is how English people gift then they're not stingy, they're sensible and they're probably not in danger of breeding a nation of entitled people who "expect" money at every envelope opening moment of their lives.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 15-05-2013 01:51PM

I wouldn't mind giving more money as a present at the divorce party, that would be more my cup of tea now than a wedding. A cake filled with red food colouring and could squirt when you cut into it, it would be far more entertaining than a wedding and would be worth the extra money.

kylith · 15-05-2013 01:52PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

Having lived there I attended over a dozen weddings, probably closer to twenty - it's the done thing - nobody bats an eye - its not vulgar believe me .

they either do that or they have to pick a present of the bride/groom's choosing from a shop that the bride/groom selects - bride/groom makes a list of what they want in that shop and the guests must go to that shop to pick out one of the items they requested.

I'd prefer the money option myself - more freedom and you can give what you want.

It's the public-ness of it that I find really galling; everyone queueing up, eyeing each other's presents. Do the bride and groom open the envelopes there and then? That'd be really horrible. If I did find myself at a wedding like that I'd probably queue with my hands hanging, shake hands, and then give my gift discreetly later on. That's what a gift is, to me; it's not an ostentatious show of displaying your generosity, or of letting everyone know how much money or how many things you got, it's something that is between the giver and the recipient.

I've heard of wedding lists, it seems like a good idea, but there'll always be the couple who register at a really posh shop and you wind up having to buy a set of napkin rings for €80 or something. On the flip side of that, when my eldest brother got married he wound up with 4 toasters and a half dozen of the most revolting lamps you've ever laid eyes on, so I can certainly see the benefit of a list.

There's just something about the dictatorial nature of it that I hate. It just seems "You will give us something off this list, from a shop we have pre-approved, at a cost we dictate", well, it's not the kind of thing I'd expect from someone that I would call a friend.

I prefer to give money as a gift, and I prefer to receive money as a gift, but I accept that a gift is a gift: what it is and how much it is, or it cost, is entirely at the discretion of the gift-giver.

15-05-2013 02:17PM

Shenshen wrote: »

:eek:

Seriously?

I think I got €50 in total for my 21st from my mother and grandparents, all my friends would actually have just given gifts, most of them home/handmade. I always appreciated the thought and time that went into those far more than any gift of money.

Friends giving friends 21 euro at their 21st has been the done thing for years as far as I'm aware. I've been to more than 20 21st partys over the years and this was what happened at every one. One or two of my friends actually gave me more than that as far as I remember.

21st's are a big deal around my area. A lot of people do up invitations and send them around, book out function rooms etc etc.

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't think I got anything at all for graduation - why would you?

Parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc wanting to get you started out in life with some money.

Alison Eager Bobsled wrote: »

You call it stingy, I call it sensible. Big, flashy cash gifts aren't the norm in England and why would they be? I think it's ridiculous to give 200 or 300 euro as a gift when you're not on a high income. And you're not doing very well at making the point that people don't expect big cash gifts when you say your friend complained about how little she got from certain guests. Why would she feel the need to think about that, let alone broadcast it to her friends?

When I said not on high incomes I didn't mean living on the bread line but they also wouldn't be the people who would put a few hundred pounds on a horse no bother yet give 40 pounds as a wedding gift. People who could easily afford to give a much better present. I also wasn't told directly I over heard the conversation from another room between the person in question and her husband.

Sittingpretty wrote: »

I haven't accepted money as a gift since, probably, my 18th birthday.

Shenshen wrote: »

if anybody had tried to give us €200 we would have refused to accept this straight out.

Both of you are a bit foolish imo, would you take the money out of a card and hand it back?

fishy fishy · 15-05-2013 02:19PM

kylith

thats why money is the most sensible option all round. And contrary to what some posts are saying on this thread, it is very rare that somebody would ask for, demand, or get upset about money or how much is given- Ive been to plenty of weddings and I have never seen "cash only" or other "asks" on invites.

Re. the receiving line at US weddings....it is done discreetly - it is usually given to the best man in an envelope who would be part of the "line" - envelopes are usually then put into a special box/purse - nothing is opened in front of everyone - it is quite boring to be honest as if it is a big wedding nothing can "start" until the line is done. I prefer the irish way - just hand the envelope informally to the best man and be done with it.

And yes it is true....people tend to go to the higher expense stores when they register for wedding gifts. Can work out a lot more expensive than giving money. There is a greed factor when registering for gifts. This is another reason why money is at the better option.

Sittingpretty · 15-05-2013 02:21PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

Friends giving friends 21 euro at their 21st has been the done thing for years as far as I'm aware. I've been to more than 20 21st partys over the years and this was what happened at every one. One or two of my friends actually gave me more than that as far as I remember.

21st's are a big deal around my area. A lot of people do up invitations and send them around, book out function rooms etc etc.

Parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc wanting to get you started out in life with some money.

When I said not on high incomes I didn't mean living on the bread line but they also wouldn't be the people who would put a few hundred pounds on a horse no bother yet give 40 pounds as a wedding gift. People who could easily afford to give a much better present. I also wasn't really told directly I over heard the conversation from another room between the person in question and her husband.

Both of you are a bit foolish imo.

And IMO, you come across a bit spoiled.

I'm not foolish, I'm an adult and I pay my own way.

I don't expect other adults to gift me money. You clearly do. Horses for courses.

Shenshen · 15-05-2013 02:22PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

Both of you are a bit foolish imo, would you take the money out of a card and hand it back?

Foolish for refusing outrageous sums of money from friends who I know can ill afford them?

If you think it's foolish not to take people for what they're worth at any given opportunity, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
Personally, I would not be able to look at my face in the mirror any more if I did accept a sum like that. I would consider myself an immoral money-grabber.

15-05-2013 02:25PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

most people have either lived together or are not living at home which means that they have most of the items they need already - why pile more stuff on that they don't need - hence the cash - let them get what they want out of it.

Re. the american weddings - its traditional to have a receiving line - it's what they do - they receive their guests before they eat and will also accept all the envelopes stuffed with cash - in fact, its not only jewish and american - its also italan, hindu and a lot of other countries. Don't know what the problem is with it myself. But it's definitely NOT an "irish" thing - and its not vulgar in the least.

Any american wedding I have been too. There has been a wedding list, of affordable things the couple want. I have never seen a money purse.
Much less expectation compared to an Irish wedding.

Not that I oppose money pinning or paying for a dance with the bride concept if that has been your tradition. But again these traditions come from a time when guest felt they were helping the bride and groom start a life.
Not keep up with the jones.

Also bear in mind, many of these cultures wouldn't tolerate traveling or having to overnight for a wedding.
If you put those costs on your guests, in many countries you would be expected to pick up the tab.

If the this cash only, plate covering culture stopped. The only people who would suffer are the rip off suppliers.

kylith · 15-05-2013 02:26PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

Re. the receiving line at US weddings....it is done discreetly - it is usually given to the best man in an envelope who would be part of the "line" - envelopes are usually then put into a special box/purse - nothing is opened in front of everyone - it is quite boring to be honest as if it is a big wedding nothing can "start" until the line is done. I prefer the irish way - just hand the envelope informally to the best man and be done with it.

Jesus, the only place you'd see people queue up like that over here is to offer condolences at a funeral. Discretion, that's the key.

15-05-2013 02:28PM

Sittingpretty wrote: »

And IMO, you come across a bit spoiled.

I'm not foolish, I'm an adult and I pay my own way.

I don't expect other adults to gift me money. You clearly do. Horses for courses.

Shenshen wrote: »

Foolish for refusing outrageous sums of money from friends who I know can ill afford them?

If you think it's foolish not to take people for what they're worth at any given opportunity, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.
Personally, I would not be able to look at my face in the mirror any more if I did accept a sum like that. I would consider myself an immoral money-grabber.

If they want to give it that's their decision, some people may be highly insulted if you wouldn't accept. Why would you be an immoral money grabber to refuse a gift, it makes no sense. You make it should like you are stealing money or something.

How on earth is it taking people for what their worth, as above it make no sense. They are giving you a gift its not theft or some undercover tactic.

I expect to gift money to adults myself, for instance both of my sisters received 50 euro or more from me in the last month as it was their birthdays and I'm not particularly flush with money myself at the moment.

Vojera · 15-05-2013 02:30PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

If they want to give it that's their decision, some people may be highly insulted if you wouldn't accept. Why would you be an immoral money grabber to refuse a gift, it makes no sense. You make it should like you are stealing money or something.

This is very true. Some people are highly offended if you try to refuse a gift, no matter how large or small. It's not always as easy as saying "Thanks for the thought, but please keep the gift".

Alun · 15-05-2013 02:32PM

My niece got married recently and asked for cash only. I had absolutely no problem with that as they have been living together for the last 2 years, have a nice little house equipped with everything they need already, and have no need for any additional toasters, sets of crockery, crystal glasses or any of the stuff we got when we got married. I imagine they'd have been pretty hard pushed to come up with a list of any size of any other stuff they needed.

At the reception they had an ornamental birdcage that guests put their envelopes in, no queueing required.

Shenshen · 15-05-2013 02:33PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

If they want to give it that's their decision, some people may be highly insulted if you wouldn't accept. Why would you be an immoral money grabber to refuse a gift, it makes no sense. You make it should like you are stealing money or something.

I expect to gift money to adults myself, for instance both of my sisters received 50 euro or more from me in the last month as it was their birthdays and I'm not particularly flush with money myself at the moment.

Well, by the sounds of it the people in question appear to be giving the money because that's what's expected of them.
I disapprove of such expectation, nobody should ever "expect" a gift only to make the giver feel they need to give sufficiently so as to not get into the recipients bad book.

I never accept gifts of serious amounts of money, as I would feel like I was contributing to the pressure being placed on people to give.

I have in the past spent hours, days and weeks to make someone special a present, but I wouldn't ever give anybody close to me a gift of money, it would feel disrespectful.

15-05-2013 02:33PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

When I said not on high incomes I didn't mean living on the bread line but they also wouldn't be the people who would put a few hundred pounds on a horse no bother yet give 40 pounds as a wedding gift. People who could easily afford to give a much better present. I also wasn't told directly I over heard the conversation from another room between the person in question and her husband.

It's not up to you, or your mate, to judge who could 'easily afford' to give a bigger present. Discussing how much you got from guests and b1tching that they should have given you more is crass.

Both of you are a bit foolish imo, would you take the money out of a card and hand it back?

It would depend on the amount. Probably not, but I'd feel quite awkward about accepting it if it was loads. I don't see anything foolish about not flinging large sums of money around for the sake of it, in the middle of a recession, but there you go.

15-05-2013 02:35PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I have in the past spent hours, days and weeks to make someone special a present, but I wouldn't ever give anybody close to me a gift of money, it would feel disrespectful.

While the personal gift might be a nice touch, cash is a lot more useful to people though. I cant fathom why anyone would think it was disrespectful.

Alison Eager Bobsled wrote: »

It's not up to you, or your mate, to judge who could 'easily afford' to give a bigger present. Discussing how much you got from guests and b1tching that they should have given you more is crass.

As I said it was a conversation among themselves that I happened to hear and they weren't really bitching about it just mentioning how surprising it is how people with more money are happy to give pretty small gifts and how they wouldn't dream of giving so little themselves.

mrsdewinter · 15-05-2013 02:35PM

I usually give cash as a wedding present - due to my own lack of imagination rather than any principle.
However, I do occasionally worry that as 'cash gifts' become the norm, more and more of us find ourselves with no option but to hand over wads of notes.

Shenshen · 15-05-2013 02:38PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

While the personal gift might be a nice touch, cash is a lot more useful to people though. I cant fathom why anyone would think it was disrespectful.

It implies that the recipient is not willing or able to pay for their own in life.
Sorry, but where I come from it would be considered very odd and show-offish at best to give such sums of money, and many people would outright refuse it.

fishy fishy · 15-05-2013 02:40PM

Moonbaby wrote: »

Any american wedding I have been too. There has been a wedding list, of affordable things the couple want. I have never seen a money purse.
Much less expectation compared to an Irish wedding.

Not that I oppose money pinning or paying for a dance with the bride concept if that has been your tradition. But again these traditions come from a time when guest felt they were helping the bride and groom start a life.
Not keep up with the jones.

Also bear in mind, many of these cultures wouldn't tolerate traveling or having to overnight for a wedding.
If you put those costs on your guests, in many countries you would be expected to pick up the tab.

If the this cash only, plate covering culture stopped. The only people who would suffer are the rip off suppliers.

maybe you just attended "registered at shop" weddings - I have attended both. The reception line is very common and believe it or not a lot less "painful" in terms of gift giving as compared to purchasing something in a store for an inflated price.

A formal "money purse" is usually an italian/american wedding - a catholic american wedding is more discreet with the receiving line.

Paying for a dance, or money pinning is only inventive ways for guest to give money gifts to the couple.

it is up to the couple to decide how they spend the money, whether it be to pay expenses or to have a lavish honeymoon - their gift, their choice.

Also in most weddings there is an element of travel involved - usually weddings have relatives/friends coming from different towns, counties or countries to help them celebrate - they bride and groom do not have to pick up the expense for this. If you can't afford it, don't go. Simples.

Giving money as a wedding gift is not "keeping up with the joneses" any more than purchasing a gift that the bride and groom has pre-picked out and is expecting their guests to purchase for them. I, and many others prefer giving money.

fishy fishy · 15-05-2013 02:42PM

kylith wrote: »

Jesus, the only place you'd see people queue up like that over here is to offer condolences at a funeral. Discretion, that's the key.

thats the american way of doing it. Its long, tedious, boring - its a way of the family greeting or welcoming the guests into the reception and the envelopes are passed over during the ritual.

As I said, give me the Irish way any day. Grab the best man - hand him the envelope on the way to the bar for a cocktail - can't beat it.

15-05-2013 02:43PM

Shenshen wrote: »

It implies that the recipient is not willing or able to pay for their own in life.
Sorry, but where I come from it would be considered very odd and show-offish at best to give such sums of money, and many people would outright refuse it.

Things are obviously very different where you come from. I never really came across any Irish person who would think anything out of the ordinary about giving cash as a gift. Its pretty much the norm for every occasion that involves gifts being given as far as I'm aware. If for no other reason that its often impossible to know what someone would want when getting a gift so why not give them the money to buy what they want.

Why would it imply people are not able to pay for their own in life? It just means they have some extra cash to do with it as they want. Be it pay a bill, save towards something etc etc.

fishy fishy · 15-05-2013 02:44PM

Alun wrote: »

My niece got married recently and asked for cash only. I had absolutely no problem with that as they have been living together for the last 2 years, have a nice little house equipped with everything they need already, and have no need for any additional toasters, sets of crockery, crystal glasses or any of the stuff we got when we got married. I imagine they'd have been pretty hard pushed to come up with a list of any size of any other stuff they needed.

At the reception they had an ornamental birdcage that guests put their envelopes in, no queueing required.

sensible and sweet.

I cannot understand why people think this is Irish and vulgar - its the most sensible way to do things if you ask me. let the bride and groom chose their own items from the money they received instead of being bombarded with stuff that they don't want or need.

kylith · 15-05-2013 02:45PM

Shenshen wrote: »

It implies that the recipient is not willing or able to pay for their own in life.
Sorry, but where I come from it would be considered very odd and show-offish at best to give such sums of money, and many people would outright refuse it.

The reason it's getting more common is that, as said upthread, just about everyone lives together before getting married now, so the traditional wedding gifts that would have been used to start a home are pointless since the couple already have a home and have it furnished and decorated. Giving money allows a couple to buy what they need, or to pay off debts, which is sensible and practical. My issue with it is the expectation that people should give money, or should give a certain amount.

A gift is a gift, and is entirely at the discretion of the giver. This point was hammered home to me at my communion when I dared pout because someone gave me a watch instead of money.

Shenshen · 15-05-2013 02:45PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

Things are obviously very different where you come from. I never really came across any Irish person who would think anything out of the ordinary about giving cash as a gift. Its pretty much the norm for every occasion that involves gifts being given as far as I'm aware. If for no other reason that its often impossible to know what someone would want when getting a gift so why not give them the money to buy what they want.

Why would it imply people are not able to pay for their own in life? It just means they have some extra cash to do with it as they want. Be it pay a bill, save towards something etc etc.

Why give a gift to someone you don't even know well enough to know what they might want in the first place?

And if you hardly know them, why throw around such large sums of money, then?

fishy fishy · 15-05-2013 02:47PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, by the sounds of it the people in question appear to be giving the money because that's what's expected of them.
I disapprove of such expectation, nobody should ever "expect" a gift only to make the giver feel they need to give sufficiently so as to not get into the recipients bad book.

I never accept gifts of serious amounts of money, as I would feel like I was contributing to the pressure being placed on people to give.

I have in the past spent hours, days and weeks to make someone special a present, but I wouldn't ever give anybody close to me a gift of money, it would feel disrespectful.

Nobody is saying this is what is done - its funny that everybody uses a version of this sentence as a reason for not giving money in the first place but I don't think any person has ever mentioned on this thread that they are made to feel bad because the don't give "enough".

fishy fishy · 15-05-2013 02:50PM

Shenshen wrote: »

It implies that the recipient is not willing or able to pay for their own in life.
Sorry, but where I come from it would be considered very odd and show-offish at best to give such sums of money, and many people would outright refuse it.

No it doesn't imply that - does a microwave emply that that the couple cannot cook - does a set of wine glasses emily that they are alcoholics.

I don't know what you mean to "to give such sums" - what sum exactly are you talking about - I don't think a "specific and correct" sum has been mentioned on here - its all up to the individual.

Shenshen · 15-05-2013 02:51PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

Nobody is saying this is what is done - its funny that everybody uses a version of this sentence as a reason for not giving money in the first place but I don't think any person has ever mentioned on this thread that they are made to feel bad because the don't give "enough".

People have however complained about the "cost" of it, people have stated that they were giving money despite being a little strapped for cash themselves, and people have been explaining that they would hold grudges against people who they might feel haven't "given enough", and that they have heard people complaining about not receiving enough.

Shenshen · 15-05-2013 02:52PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

No it doesn't imply that - does a microwave emply that that the couple cannot cook - does a set of wine glasses emily that they are alcoholics.

I don't know what you mean to "to give such sums" - what sum exactly are you talking about - I don't think a "specific and correct" sum has been mentioned on here - its all up to the individual.

In the case of the post I was replying to it was giving a sibling €50 for a birthday, in previous posts it was about people giving €300 or €400 to a bride and groom.

kennryyr · 15-05-2013 02:53PM

fishy fishy wrote: »

No it doesn't imply that - does a microwave emply that that the couple cannot cook - does a set of wine glasses emily that they are alcoholics.

I don't know what you mean to "to give such sums" - what sum exactly are you talking about - I don't think a "specific and correct" sum has been mentioned on here - its all up to the individual.

fishyfishy if you were invited to a wedding of a friend of an acquaintance how much money would you give as your gift? €100? €200?

15-05-2013 02:54PM

Shenshen wrote: »

Why give a gift to someone you don't even know well enough to know what they might want in the first place?
And if you hardly know them, why throw around such large sums of money, then?

Sure I wouldn't know what even my sister would want unless I asked or asked my mother to find out? If I know someone was looking for something in particular I don't have a problem getting it especially at Christmas as I like to try give actual presents if I can but if I'm guessing of I just don't know I will give a voucher or money.

Difficulty in picking a present gets much more difficult when you move outside your immediate family. I wouldn't waste my time even trying to come up with something to get a neighbour for their wedding for instance, I wouldn't have a clue what they would want or need so it makes perfect sense to give cash.

Shenshen wrote: »

In the case of the post I was replying to it was giving a sibling €50 for a birthday, in previous posts it was about people giving €300 or €400 to a bride and groom.

Just to clarify I wasn't saying you should be giving 200 or 300 euro at any old wedding. I would only be thinking about them sort of sums for close friends or relations. For a sibling I would be thinking more though. Going as a couple (as most people are invited in two's to weddings) to a neighbour or acquaintance getting married I'd be thinking 100 to 150 euro probably. With the amount increasing the better you know the person. I have no idea how much I would give my sister say but I'd be thinking close to if not a three figure sum if I could afford it (id have no problem starting saving a little in advance in order to do this for one of my sisters)

Shenshen · 15-05-2013 02:56PM

Kyra Echoing Cap wrote: »

Sure I wouldn't know what even my sister would want unless I asked or asked my mother to find out? If I know someone was looking for something in particular I don't have a problem getting it especially at Christmas as I like to try give actual presents if I can but if I'm guessing of I just don't know I will give a voucher or money.

Difficulty in picking a present gets much more difficult when you move outside your immediate family. I wouldn't waste my time even trying to come up with something to get a neighbour for their wedding for instance, I wouldn't have a clue what they would want or need so it makes perfect sense to give cash.

:eek:

Seriously?

To be perfectly honest, that does leave me kind of speechless.
In short, you give money because you can't be bothered to find out about the interests or need of the person you're giving the money to?
I'm not sure if you could say "I don't care" in a more drastic way.
And you wonder why this attitude would seem disrespectful to me?

Why do people still have expensive weddings?

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