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Garda Reserve Force - (See Moderator note in first post #1)

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    #2282
    TylerIE
    Registered Users Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭TylerIE


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    What do you think happened before the reserve??? This country has been served by fine officers who were not reserves and recuited directly from the public, i actually find your comments insulting. What about all the people who have immigrated from this country who can't fly back from oz to work 4 hrs a week? Do you not think that they might gain some life skills that may be of value to them as a member of an garda siochana. Most people are well aware of what the job entails and there is a drop out rate in most jobs for various reasons and in my experience its quite low in an garda siochana compared to other jobs!

    Before the reserve people didn't have similar opportunities to express and demonstrate their interest in the role. Totally different situation.

    There are reserves - many - who have been to Australia and worked around it by doing extra hours before going, while home on holiday and again at the end if their year. Plus should those that stayed and worked minimum wage jobs and did their 208 hours with the view to joining full time be pushed down by those who can say "I was an engineer managing 20 staff earning 120k a year now I wanna be a guard"?

    Indeed many UK services won't let you in if you have been overseas for 4/6 months continuously in the last 3 years to the Australia issue is somewhat of a moot point.

    Quite frankly nobody knows what the job entails until you do it - and thats something the vast majority of full timers will acknowledge. I doubt your a reserve yourself else youd know that.

    Furthermore there is a drop out rate in many roles but in AGS it's at huge expense to the state - all the relevant recruitment expense, the cost of training comparable to a normal college course, equipment and on top of that your paid a salary during it! So even one early dropout is going to cost the state an easy 5k.


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    #2283
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    What do you think happened before the reserve??? This country has been served by fine officers who were not reserves and recuited directly from the public, i actually find your comments insulting. What about all the people who have immigrated from this country who can't fly back from oz to work 4 hrs a week? Do you not think that they might gain some life skills that may be of value to them as a member of an garda siochana. Most people are well aware of what the job entails and there is a drop out rate in most jobs for various reasons and in my experience its quite low in an garda siochana compared to other jobs!

    I think Ireland was stuck in time just like it still is today, people are fearful of change hence the length of time it has taken to get the Reserve force in Ireland up and running, Ireland as a whole are about fifty years behind and need to move forward, change is good so dont be afraid of it.


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    #2284
    Pappa Charlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Pappa Charlie


    TylerIE wrote: »
    Before the reserve people didn't have similar opportunities to express and demonstrate their interest in the role. Totally different situation.

    There are reserves - many - who have been to Australia and worked around it by doing extra hours before going, while home on holiday and again at the end if their year. Plus should those that stayed and worked minimum wage jobs and did their 208 hours with the view to joining full time be pushed down by those who can say "I was an engineer managing 20 staff earning 120k a year now I wanna be a guard"?

    Indeed many UK services won't let you in if you have been overseas for 4/6 months continuously in the last 3 years to the Australia issue is somewhat of a moot point.

    Quite frankly nobody knows what the job entails until you do it - and thats something the vast majority of full timers will acknowledge. I doubt your a reserve yourself else youd know that.

    Furthermore there is a drop out rate in many roles but in AGS it's at huge expense to the state - all the relevant recruitment expense, the cost of training comparable to a normal college course, equipment and on top of that your paid a salary during it! So even one early dropout is going to cost the state an easy 5k.

    I'm a full time member and I had a pretty good idea what I was getting into like most my collegues and joining a reserve would not have shown me anything I didn't know from cop on. It's that attitude that turns full time members off reserves, I don't believe they have anywhere near enough training for the job and I've always said its a full time role, anyway I'll get banned for having such an opinion on this forum so I'll leave it at that, best of luck to all who apply when they start recruiting and may the best suited people get in!!


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    #2285
    DustyMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭DustyMan


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    I'm a full time member and I had a pretty good idea what I was getting into like most my collegues and joining a reserve would not have shown me anything I didn't know from cop on. It's that attitude that turns full time members off reserves, I don't believe they have anywhere near enough training for the job and I've always said its a full time role, anyway I'll get banned for having such an opinion on this forum so I'll leave it at that, best of luck to all who apply when they start recruiting and may the best suited people get in!!

    I'm a GR applicant myself and I'm glad of it. Hope I can make it in. In my own job I deal with the public all the time (I'm a registered nurse working in acute setting incl. ED previously) I see the very best and worst in people. I've worked for the Prison Service in this role at one time too. I've a Science Degree also. I'm only saying this because I feel my experience/qualifications would be of help as a GR. I missed out initially because of the Irish requirement and then the age recruitment 'limit'.

    However I don't agree with a reserve police force myself. If I get in great (honestly I am applying with the hope that the may change the age upper age limit i.e giving an exemption for serving GR members who also pass certain criteria, aptitude test etc. As a matter of fact I believe there should have been the same aptitude test for GR applicants in the first place.) and I would be totally committed to it. It's a job I'd love to do. But I still believe it should be a full time role. I do believe the upper age limit should be relaxed as it is in most counties, this is somewhat of a discrimination issue and the Govt. will eventually have to move in line with EU guidelines on this.

    The should never have stopped recruitment and they should have a minimum of trainees going through the Garda college every year. Even if that number is only 50-75 a year. It keeps things 'fresh' so to speak. It's totally wrong they stopped recruitment for such a long period. The GR was only brought in so as to cut down on pay/recruitment costs et cetera. I don't go with the argument that Ireland is '50 years behind' because we did't have a reserve force etc. John Timoney the former NYPD Commissioner said it would never work, didn't advise on it, and I'm inclined to agree with him. New South Wales Police in Australia kicked the whole idea into touch.

    It's probably here to stay but think it's seriously flawed and will be until it's overhauled in a big way. I think the majority who become GR are fine outstanding people just like the full-time force. Will there be a few 'unsuitable characters' who get through the application process? Probably, but you have them in every job. I wouldn't necessarily agree either that you must be a GR to show absolute commitment but I do believe that a serving GR should get appropriate recognition in the recruitment for full-time. It make absolute sense.

    Anyway that's my own opinion of it all, for what it's worth.....


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    #2286
    Tyron Jara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    I'm a full time member and I had a pretty good idea what I was getting into like most my collegues and joining a reserve would not have shown me anything I didn't know from cop on. It's that attitude that turns full time members off reserves, I don't believe they have anywhere near enough training for the job and I've always said its a full time role, anyway I'll get banned for having such an opinion on this forum so I'll leave it at that, best of luck to all who apply when they start recruiting and may the best suited people get in!!

    Pappa ive been told different by others. One particalar guard who has taken me under his wing told me he had no idea what he was getting himself into. We have some idea but lets be honest some stuff you just dont expect.
    Im a reserve myself and even as a part-timer its nothing like I imagined.

    Although I respect what your saying about reserves not being trained enough, which is true.A hell of alot more could be done to train us up and utilise the reserve force better, I do 100% believe its good to distinguish whose suitable and loves the job to whose not and for some they might discover its not for them. Reserves is limiting but thats my two cents, your obviously in a better position to talk about it as a full timer. However you were never a reserve and were im stationed it has shown me alot...and maybe that varies from place to place.

    From the reserves ive surprised myself at things I can do and cant do. You just cant get that experience anywhere but the reserves right now due to this embargo. It just seems the reserve would act as a good screening and requirement. I feel you should have to do at least 1 year attested reserve service before being eligible to got through the application process for fulltime and I do think we should have to go through all the application process!!


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    #2287
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    Tyron Jara wrote: »
    I feel you should have to do at least 1 year attested reserve service before being eligible to got through the application process for fulltime and I do think we should have to go through all the application process!!

    At the moment it takes almost a year to simply apply for the Garda Reserve!

    You would seriously have to ask yourself just how unique the Policing situation in Ireland is, that a years worth of on the job experience would be seen an a requirement to simply apply for a position in the AGS.

    It shouldn't be seen as a requirement but as a positive note on your CV.


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    #2288
    3fullback
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭3fullback


    Guys this speculation by all of you is gone beyond a joke. Why get so up tight over this you can talk all you want but whatever you say will make no difference to what sort of recruitment process is implemented.

    It may take months to get such a process developed and up and running.

    The only thing I would like to add is that the GRA should take the GRs under its wing as we would be excellent negotiating tools.

    Eg. Get all the GRs to stop volunteering and refuse to go into there stations.

    Imagine the headlines 1300 GRs show solidarity to there full time colleagues.

    This would not only put pressure on Shatter to start recruitment and address the cuts to Gardai, but also increase the relationship between GRs and full timers.


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    #2289
    TylerIE
    Registered Users Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭TylerIE


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    At the moment it takes almost a year to simply apply for the Garda Reserve!

    You would seriously have to ask yourself just how unique the Policing situation in Ireland is, that a years worth of on the job experience would be seen an a requirement to simply apply for a position in the AGS.

    It shouldn't be seen as a requirement but as a positive note on your CV.


    Not quite unique to Ireland in that the UK as I said above is only taking specials in some areas and prioritises them and PCSOs in others.

    Someone else referred to NYPD and NSW police - many US law enforcement agencies have and utilise a reserve membership fully and in some areas it's a natural progression that you become a reserve first. Canada also has reserves very similar to the Irish model but with the role clearer.

    What's unique here is that there will be very few taken on so those most interested and most informed of the role should be recognised.

    One thing that all GRs will know is how slow AGS is to change - the entire reserve concept epitomises this - something that those coming in to go full time from outside or overseas employment may find very difficult to adjust to - and a reason some people with great potential get demoralised and demotivated.

    Re training - yes reserve training is limited and not entirely fit for purpose, but at least it and the on the job experience is AGS specific.

    3fullback I think the GRA are being silly in ignoring reserves as potential allies but realistically the reserves don't prevent or plug any significant gaps in day-to-day policing.

    Also it's a discussion forum - hence why why we are discussing our opinions on how recruitment should be done!


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    #2290
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    3fullback wrote: »
    Guys this speculation by all of you is gone beyond a joke. Why get so up tight over this you can talk all you want but whatever you say will make no difference to what sort of recruitment process is implemented.

    It may take months to get such a process developed and up and running.

    The only thing I would like to add is that the GRA should take the GRs under its wing as we would be excellent negotiating tools.

    Eg. Get all the GRs to stop volunteering and refuse to go into there stations.

    Imagine the headlines 1300 GRs show solidarity to there full time colleagues.

    This would not only put pressure on Shatter to start recruitment and address the cuts to Gardai, but also increase the relationship between GRs and full timers.

    That will never happen, the GRA never wanted the RG so that would be like eating their own words and saying they were wrong for the last 6 yrs, at each conferences where they took every chance at demean the Reserve Force with such words as mollycoddelling or babysitting duties for the FT members, they still dont recognize RG as members what does that say.!


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    #2291
    3fullback
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭3fullback


    bluetop wrote: »
    That will never happen, the GRA never wanted the RG so that would be like eating their own words and saying they were wrong for the last 6 yrs, at each conferences where they took every chance at demean the Reserve Force with such words as mollycoddelling or babysitting duties for the FT members, they still dont recognize RG as members what does that say.!

    All I'm saying is it would make an excellent bargaining tool and worth taking into consideration.

    It's not like they've many more options open to them !


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    #2292
    Pappa Charlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Pappa Charlie


    bluetop wrote: »
    That will never happen, the GRA never wanted the RG so that would be like eating their own words and saying they were wrong for the last 6 yrs, at each conferences where they took every chance at demean the Reserve Force with such words as mollycoddelling or babysitting duties for the FT members, they still dont recognize RG as members what does that say.!

    Ironically the reserve is a big part of the reason recruitment has not restarted IMO, change isn't always for the better by the way, it bugs me to hear reserves talk about a lack of change in the job, when you have 17 years full time service you can talk to me about change in the job as apposed to blocks of 4 hrs a week for a few years in a part time non responsibility role!


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    #2293
    DustyMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭DustyMan


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    At the moment it takes almost a year to simply apply for the Garda Reserve!

    You would seriously have to ask yourself just how unique the Policing situation in Ireland is, that a years worth of on the job experience would be seen an a requirement to simply apply for a position in the AGS.

    It shouldn't be seen as a requirement but as a positive note on your CV.

    My application for the GR is at present 1 year and 9 months in the 'process'. (although I have had some contact recently that things are progressing). IF I'm successful I'm thinking's it will be a min. of a 2 year application process.......:eek


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    #2294
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    Ironically the reserve is a big part of the reason recruitment has not restarted IMO, change isn't always for the better by the way, it bugs me to hear reserves talk about a lack of change in the job, when you have 17 years full time service you can talk to me about change in the job as apposed to blocks of 4 hrs a week for a few years in a part time non responsibility role!

    I love when FT bring this up sure you only do 4hrs most reserves would not bother going in for a 4hr tour of duty that i know, there are plenty of RG that do well in excess of the 208hrs a year try maybe 5/600 a year.

    And yes a lot of FT not all are stuck in time, afraid of a change in work practice or anything new that might lead to them doing more work, how long did it take to get a roster change and that was not embraced either.

    As for the non responsibility role is that the fault of the Reserves, dont think so, maybe if the FT put more pressure on their respected representative body to get them better training that might help, it sure would go a lot further then the GR plights to highlight the training problem which has met a dead end.


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    #2295
    WilcoOut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭WilcoOut


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    it bugs me to hear reserves talk about a lack of change in the job, when you have 17 years full time service you can talk to me about change in the job

    typical mule response!

    'you have to be putting up with it for years in order to be allowed crib about it'

    that attitude is the whole reason AGS is stuck in the past

    anyone who wants to make changes or get ahead is shouted down

    the quicker you realise that a lot of GRs are people who are at the top of their game in the private sector and whos experience and knowledge, should it be listened to and acted upon, would change the police force of country for the better

    on the subject of change.u better believe GRs want change. the model that the reserve currently follows only serves to hold policing back. any other organisation who had the luxury of having nearly 1300 educated, experienced, dedicated and motivated peoples would use them to within 100% of their capabilities. its laughable that the gardai dont


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    #2296
    Pappa Charlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Pappa Charlie


    WilcoOut wrote: »
    typical mule response!

    'you have to be putting up with it for years in order to be allowed crib about it'

    that attitude is the whole reason AGS is stuck in the past

    anyone who wants to make changes or get ahead is shouted down

    the quicker you realise that a lot of GRs are people who are at the top of their game in the private sector and whos experience and knowledge, should it be listened to and acted upon, would change the police force of country for the better

    on the subject of change.u better believe GRs want change. the model that the reserve currently follows only serves to hold policing back. any other organisation who had the luxury of having nearly 1300 educated, experienced, dedicated and motivated peoples would use them to within 100% of their capabilities. its laughable that the gardai dont

    I rest my case!


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    #2297
    snams
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭snams


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    I rest my case!
    DO!


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    #2298
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Folks, I don't think there's a need to turn this into a full timers vs reserves debate. We all agree a lot needs to change with the reserve, what we don't need is full timers turning against the reserves! We are all entitled to our option on things in the job no matter what our status, personally brushing each other up is going to achieve nothing.

    I have said before, when full time recruitment starts again I will be very interested in numbers within the reserves and whats the break down from the recruitment drive until then we as members on the ground both full time and reserves both push for changes we both need and bounce off each other to get there.


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    #2299
    Boscorelli
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Boscorelli


    Hi all,

    Just a few questions if anyone can help I'd really appreciate it.

    I passed PAS interview and written test 6 weeks ago,since then I've had 2 interviews with sergeant and one with superintendent..BR form has been gone off with a week. Seems very quick from what I have read..could any one tell me how long BR form will take? Family are all in ireland and none have convictions.

    Superintendent said they are really pushing for reserves at the moment.

    Is it possible to be stationed locally or what is the set up?

    Thanks.


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    #2300
    kenny343
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭kenny343


    It's unlikely, but it is possible to be stationed in your local station. FACT!


    And the Form Br can take anything up 2 weeks to two years. it has to go through the commissioner from start to finish including all details about your life.


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    #2301
    Boscorelli
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Boscorelli


    kenny343 wrote: »
    It's unlikely, but it is possible to be stationed in your local station. FACT!


    And the Form Br can take anything up 2 weeks to two years. it has to go through the commissioner from start to finish including all details about your life.


    Thanks for your reply..hopefully the BR form won't take too long!


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    #2302
    kenny343
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭kenny343


    I have been waiting most all my life, to join AGS, I don't think i'll mind as much!


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    #2303
    Sgt. Bilko 09
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭Sgt. Bilko 09


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/reservists-hit-out-at-snub-to-one-of-their-own-29259837.html


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    #2304
    kenny343
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭kenny343


    it would be good to see reservists getting it. I heard a lot of reserve members are leaving, I would give any thing to be a reserve.


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    #2305
    Tyron Jara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    kenny343 wrote: »
    it would be good to see reservists getting it. I heard a lot of reserve members are leaving, I would give any thing to be a reserve.
    Im pretty sure a reserve has gotten it before?? Currently looking for the information to back up this if anyone can tell me different?


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    #2306
    Raider190
    Site Banned Posts: 819 ✭✭✭Raider190


    Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/reservists-hit-out-at-snub-to-one-of-their-own-29259837.html

    Cant understand why this GR was not considered for an award if he fully assisted in the arrest. Not that we do it for awards but given the danger level in this incident he should have been included


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    #2307
    DustyMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭DustyMan


    Sgt. Bilko 09 wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/reservists-hit-out-at-snub-to-one-of-their-own-29259837.html

    I have to say that being a GR applicant myself this is a very discouraging story and i'm really starting to wonder if it's really worth continuing with my application at all.


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    #2308
    Tyron Jara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    DustyMan wrote: »
    I have to say that being a GR applicant myself this is a very discouraging story and i'm really starting to wonder if it's really worth continuing with my application at all.

    Don't believe everything you read in the papers. Im sure theres more to this story. As far as im aware a reserve has received a medal before so I don't think this has anything to do with rank.


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    #2309
    DustyMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 214 ✭✭DustyMan


    Yes indeed. Hope your right.


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    #2310
    Tyron Jara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    DustyMan wrote: »
    I don't believe everything I read in the papers that's for sure and yes indeed a GR was nominated for a Scott medal before I believe (in 2010?). I don't know whatever came of that nomination? However I do find this story, link above, somewhat discouraging. True indeed there may be more to it and I agree with that. Perhaps I should have expanded my response to the same story;
    It's the whole feeling I'm starting to get about the role of a GR and the way it's perceived in the main by the full-time force i.e negatively I'm afraid. There appears a genuine unwillingness, and in a way I can understand that, to accept the GR concept at all. Coupled with the limited powers, and lets be frank the main reason it, the GR, was set up was to cut costs i.e recruitment costs/wages/overtime. My own application is very frustrating, my application form lay in the local station for 6 months, only an inquiry from me meant it was then sent on to HQ. I may have been wrong but I felt my application wasn't viewed as important to someone. It's going on nearly 2 years now and I come from a VERY small family with NO convictions i.e the BR check form) I've feel I've good qualifications and life experience too. I think the process for applying to the CIA would be quicker!
    It seems also many reservists are quitting in frustration. I'm really strongly thinking of withdrawing my application as honestly my whole initial excitement about the whole thing has slowly but surely being eroded. Don't like being negative about it all but this is really how I feel about it now.

    Im sure the reserve nominated is the same one in the papers. I think another got a medal for staring down a gunman and it turned out to be an imitation firearm.

    Well from my own experience its been very frustrating. Took me two years to start training but i took it with both hands as its the closest I could get to being a garda in the current climate. Before that I might add I knew nobody in AGS besides my old next door neighbor who i hadn't seen in 10 years. Now I know every garda in my station and there all very friendly I get on great with them as do the other reserves I work with. Ive worked in two other stations for shifts and the full timers have been great.

    I have met one or two who said it out to me they dont like the whole idea of the reserve but I get on well with them. Id prefer honesty from them. Its the setup they do not like and the concept not you personally although im sure theres a few who will hold a grudge against the reserve. Ive just been lucky so far to have avoided them. Don't knock it till you try it yourself. Ive had ups and downs as a reserve but its the best thing ive ever done imo.


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    #2311
    carzony
    Registered Users Posts: 2,780 ✭✭✭carzony


    Tyron Jara wrote: »
    Don't believe everything you read in the papers. Im sure theres more to this story. As far as im aware a reserve has received a medal before so I don't think this has anything to do with rank.


    Still from what I have read through a few different posts on here there are a lot of reserves leaving. There leavin for a reason.


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