Free Travel Scheme posts split from Bus Eireann strike thread

gbob · 10-05-2013 10:21PM #1

Trampas wrote: »

Fares have gone up recently anyway so you don't know if the extra euro a week will not drive people off the bus and thus cost the company more.

Up taxes/prices seems to be the answer to all questions when asked to unions for semi-state/public sector instead of reducing costs.

To many people have budgeted on total wage instead of basic wage.

Are bus drivers not allowed bring a packed lunch with them on the bus that they require a meal allowance?

I realise fares are way overpriced as they are but what I'm suggesting is a one euro flat charge on free travel passes. Would solve a lot of problems for BE.

Patser · 12-05-2013 01:24PM

Victor wrote: »

You do realise that private operators can be paid a subsidy to do this? http://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/ma-coaches-ballyragget-wins-contract-for-new-publicly-funded-bus-route/

Interesting example Victor, as M&A coaches that run that subsidised service don't accept free travel passes. They only offer a reduced fare for pass holders. If that option was made available to all Public transport there'd be no issue here.

Edit: Just to add link to their fares

http://www.mandacoaches.com/Routes.html

devnull · 13-05-2013 07:46PM

miller50841 wrote: »

I never said anything about restricting time there are plenty of people using fake/forged passes and bringing their friends along for free when they only have the pass for themselves.

I think most of us on here will agree that the whole situation with free travel is unsustainable the way it is, that people can go up and down the country to their hearts content at any time anywhere and the taxpayer picks up the bill and there are also a large amount of free passes going around.

The fact is what should happen is all of these cheap easy to fake paper passes should be abolished and they should be replaced with a LEAP Card which has a photo of the person on it and is fitted with smartcard function that requires validation like ramblers which would make it easier to disable should fraud arise.

Many people will argue that their civil liberties will be infringed no doubt by having their photo placed on the pass, but if the taxpayer is paying for them to travel up and down the country for free to their hearts content, I think they have a right to ensure that it's not being used by people handing the pass to each other with no way of checking who the owner is.

Peppa Pig · 13-05-2013 07:52PM

devnull wrote: »

The fact is what should happen is all of these cheap easy to fake paper passes should be abolished and they should be replaced with a LEAP Card which has a photo of the person on it and is fitted with smartcard function that requires validation like ramblers which would make it easier to disable should fraud arise.

Is this not what is being rolled out? The new DSP card with photo id given to everyone who gets a social welfare payment. I think they will include free travel allowance.

It will eliminate fraud for sure and is a joke that in 2013 it is only being rolled out.
But is it going to increase BE revenue, though? If BE get a set amount per pass then their sub will not change. There will just be less people on the buses so you may actually see less routes.

Victor · 13-05-2013 09:32PM

currins_02 wrote: »

On some of the privates they actually take down the number and details of every pass, I beleive when using an NI pass on a BE cross border service the number is noted so why aren't they at least noted on express way and commuter services, maybe not city services for practical reasons, that is bound to save a considerable sum (and provide statistical information for lobbying for greater payments for pass passengers in future).

Not really on topic, but there is little need to record every Free Travel Scheme transaction as (a) they are getting what is basically a fixed fee (b) there are intermittent usage surveys. Checking does need to happen, as it is a basic revenue protection issue.

Patser · 15-05-2013 09:49PM

Victor wrote: »

Analysis of the PSO indicated it was too high, so it was cut.

I'd love to see that analysis since they recently announce it was based on 1973 figures and that they've no idea how many free travel passes are out there

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/70m-paid-yearly-for-free-travel-passes-225487.html

Quote from article:

Department secretary general Niamh O’Donoghue said she did not know why a survey of users had not been carried out since 1973. But she also said the department was probably making a saving as free travel numbers had most probably increased since then.

SandyfordGuy · 15-05-2013 09:51PM

Free travel and subsidy are separate

KCAccidental · 15-05-2013 10:13PM

Victor wrote: »

Analysis of the PSO indicated it was too high, so it was cut.

and what about the massive disparity in the cost of free travel and what is paid to BE by the government.

should BE not be clawing this money back too? I mean it is losing money hand over fist.

bmaxi · 16-05-2013 10:27AM

KCAccidental wrote: »

and what about the massive disparity in the cost of free travel and what is paid to BE by the government.

should BE not be clawing this money back too? I mean it is losing money hand over fist.

I'm at a loss to see just what the free travel scheme costs BE. Most services travel with empty seats, if those seats are taken by travel pass holders and BE is paid a subsidy to carry them, then surely that's a gain for BE. The only other logical answer would be to cut services and, by extension, cut staff, not a good result for the workers. If the free travel scheme was axed tomorrow, so would the subsidy, how is that going to help BE?

AlekSmart · 16-05-2013 11:40AM

cdebru wrote: »

The whole thing was a set up start to finish. There was no need for any industrial action.

Rumour yesterday was BE wanted a 10% pay cut for everyone but 10% is 13 million not 5. Expect a 4%cut across the board.makes it look like the unions did a good deal. Varadkars comment yesterday was part of the play make it look like he wants a strike.

The one positive element to emerge from the smoke and mirrors was the confirmation that the Minister of the Day is the dei-facto point of reference for CIE group management.

Leo V's inability to maintain a discreet silence when confronted with a microphone (a trait shared by more than one Transport Minister) meant that he was able to confirm just how enmeshed Bus Eireann's supposed "Independent Management Structure" was with Government policy.

The importance of getting the Croke Park deal sorted away before BE were to act,was somewhat underlined by Minister V's "request" to BE to hold-off in anticipation of a Croke Park acceptance.

When CP was rejected,somebody in BE management took Leo at his word and immediately pressed the red-button,catching everybody a bit off balance.

I actually like Leo V's style,as it appears he is totally uncoachable in media terms which allows us to get a clearer understanding of how the cards are stacked.

There was a great expectation,when Leo was elevated to Transport,that he would be the axeman for the CIE group...the final countdown as it were ...

However,Leo wouldnt be the first politician to reassess his position once the actual situation was revealed to him by the Departmental Senior Civil Servants.

The value to an under seige Government,of a single centrally administered Transport Group prepared to offer the totality of it's services Free at point of use to c.33% of a country's Adult Population is not all about the actual €'s paid.

One notes that the expressions of interest stated after Colm McCarthy's "An Bórd Snip" excercise never progresssed beyond that initial stage,as I would expect from any commercial enterprise when it got to peruse the actual figures as opposed to the publicised one's.

Can you imagine the Chief Accounting Officer of Stagecoach,Veolia or RATP digesting the relevant information....

* c.33% of the Adult Population entitled to Free Public Transport

* A Free Travel scheme with it's funding frozen at 2010 levels.

* The Executive in charge of the scheme quite clear that she has devised a system which allows for annual increases in qualifying persons with no no further increases in funding.

* This Executive,also has no problem with admitting that Her Department has only recently been able to confirm actual numbers of passes issued.

* Further to this,The Departmental Sec Gen also has no explanation for,or problem with,40 year old statistics being utilized to allocate the funding between the various modes.

* The responsible Department also cannot provide up-to-date figures on Abuse/Fraud,of and within,the scheme,possibly due to it's non-statutory footing,which makes Legal Action against such occurences virtually impossible.

These points,and more besides,would not be of any great import if they referred to 5% of the overall business,but in our specifically Irish case we are talking of c.50%,if not more, of customer footfall.

When all the coloured smoke has cleared and the landscape is once again visible,the reality that Leo V found when he leafed through the "confidential" statistics,hit home.

For the range and scope of services it provides,the CIE group is giving the State a great deal,which will most certainly not be matched by any similarly structured private sector operator.

Leo V is no fool,just as Seamus B,Mammy and Mary Harney (Min for Health yes,but dei-facto Min for Transport) were'nt fools either.

cdebru · 16-05-2013 12:05PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

The one positive element to emerge from the smoke and mirrors was the confirmation that the Minister of the Day is the dei-facto point of reference for CIE group management.

Leo V's inability to maintain a discreet silence when confronted with a microphone (a trait shared by more than one Transport Minister) meant that he was able to confirm just how enmeshed Bus Eireann's supposed "Independent Management Structure" was with Government policy.

The importance of getting the Croke Park deal sorted away before BE were to act,was somewhat underlined by Minister V's "request" to BE to hold-off in anticipation of a Croke Park acceptance.

When CP was rejected,somebody in BE management took Leo at his word and immediately pressed the red-button,catching everybody a bit off balance.

I actually like Leo V's style,as it appears he is totally uncoachable in media terms which allows us to get a clearer understanding of how the cards are stacked.

There was a great expectation,when Leo was elevated to Transport,that he would be the axeman for the CIE group...the final countdown as it were ...

However,Leo wouldnt be the first politician to reassess his position once the actual situation was revealed to him by the Departmental Senior Civil Servants.

The value to an under seige Government,of a single centrally administered Transport Group prepared to offer the totality of it's services Free at point of use to c.33% of a country's Adult Population is not all about the actual €'s paid.

One notes that the expressions of interest stated after Colm McCarthy's "An Bórd Snip" excercise never progresssed beyond that initial stage,as I would expect from any commercial enterprise when it got to peruse the actual figures as opposed to the publicised one's.

Can you imagine the Chief Accounting Officer of Stagecoach,Veolia or RATP digesting the relevant information....

* c.33% of the Adult Population entitled to Free Public Transport

* A Free Travel scheme with it's funding frozen at 2010 levels.

* The Executive in charge of the scheme quite clear that she has devised a system which allows for annual increases in qualifying persons with no no further increases in funding.

* This Executive,also has no problem with admitting that Her Department has only recently been able to confirm actual numbers of passes issued.

* Further to this,The Departmental Sec Gen also has no explanation for,or problem with,40 year old statistics being utilized to allocate the funding between the various modes.

* The responsible Department also cannot provide up-to-date figures on Abuse/Fraud,of and within,the scheme,possibly due to it's non-statutory footing,which makes Legal Action against such occurences virtually impossible.

These points,and more besides,would not be of any great import if they referred to 5% of the overall business,but in our specifically Irish case we are talking of c.50%,if not more, of customer footfall.

When all the coloured smoke has cleared and the landscape is once again visible,the reality that Leo V found when he leafed through the "confidential" statistics,hit home.

For the range and scope of services it provides,the CIE group is giving the State a great deal,which will most certainly not be matched by any similarly structured private sector operator.

Leo V is no fool,just as Seamus B,Mammy and Mary Harney (Min for Health yes,but dei-facto Min for Transport) were'nt fools either.

100% correct, I laugh when i hear these "privatise it " comments go ahead and lets see the government try and cut the pso then. Nevermind the free travel scheme, anyone seriously believe first bus or arriva will accept that current model.

Grandeeod · 16-05-2013 01:36PM

Abolish the Free Travel Scheme.

I read a very funny story in Tuesdays papers. An OAP in Cork who always uses the bus, because she has free travel. Because of the strike, her daughter dropped her into the city, but, get this, she had to get a TAXI home!

Hilly Bill · 16-05-2013 01:40PM

Whats funny about that? an OAP gets a taxi home? Have i missed something here?

wayne040576 · 16-05-2013 01:48PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Whats funny about that? an OAP gets a taxi home? Have i missed something here?

I was thinking the exact same thing??

Victor · 16-05-2013 04:13PM

The exact means of funding the CIE group companies is not publicly known.

What is known, is that certain information can be gleaned from the the company accounts: http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=310

Heading Amount Comments

Commercial and schools transport

€218,502,000

Expressway and schools transport. Fares, including Free Travel Scheme, advertising, etc.
Public Services - Stage Carriage

€42,833,000

Fares, including Free Travel Scheme, advertising, etc.
Public Services - City

€22,350,000

Fares, including Free Travel Scheme, advertising, etc.
Interest receivable

€574,000

.
Public Service Obligation payment

€43,403,000

Paid by NTA via CIÉ
Exceptional item

€2,300,000

Money that was previously set aside for redundancies, but not spent

1. The amount paid from the Free Travel Scheme is to cover the fares of those who participate in the scheme. The whole scheme is worth in the order of €61m, but Bus Éireann only receive a fraction of this. The bulk would go to Irish Rail and Dublin Bus, who each carry a lot more passengers. A small amount goes to private operators of bus and ferry services.

When it was first conceived, the Free Travel Scheme created a virtuous circle of effects - pensioners could travel for free, transport operators got a revenue on services they would be operating with vacant seats and the government could provide for pensioners. What became problematic was the change in the hours of the scheme about 10 year ago and users were allowed use peak time services. Peak time services are the most expensive services to operate for public transport operators - capacity has to be created that can't be used at off-peak times.

2. The Public Service Obligation (PSO) amount is paid for socially necessary but unprofitable services. That is routes that there is demand for, e.g. routes between home, work, study, retail, medical, etc. where if the service wasn't provided, it would impair people's ability to avail of these services. However, for various reasons, these aren't always financially viable, e.g. low population density, traffic congestion increasing costs for decreased income, etc. The NTA have a mechanism for calculating how socially desirable a service is on their website.

As the NTA control the maximum fares on PSO routes, including special fares for children and schoolchildren, it can be somewhat said that the PSO payment covers that. However, note that with families, child or family fares are an important part of attracting them to public transport over the car.

3. There is no direct link between the Free Travel Scheme and the Public Service Obligation payment.

Grandeeod · 16-05-2013 11:04PM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Whats funny about that? an OAP gets a taxi home? Have i missed something here?

Yeah, you have missed something and its not just "an OAP getting a taxi home". Quote the rest of my post.

One of the biggest defenses argued in favour of CIEs financial position is the "free travel". Be it OAPs or social welfare recepients. Free travel is Free travel no matter what way you look at it. The particular example I quoted highlighted that the person in question was able to take a taxi home. Full stop. Take the Charlie Haughey burden away from CIE. Remove the excuses. No more free travel for anybody. You want to use a CIE service, you pay for it.

cdebru · 16-05-2013 11:50PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Yeah, you have missed something and its not just "an OAP getting a taxi home". Quote the rest of my post.

One of the biggest defenses argued in favour of CIEs financial position is the "free travel". Be it OAPs or social welfare recepients. Free travel is Free travel no matter what way you look at it. The particular example I quoted highlighted that the person in question was able to take a taxi home. Full stop. Take the Charlie Haughey burden away from CIE. Remove the excuses. No more free travel for anybody. You want to use a CIE service, you pay for it.

Ah I get what you meant now, you were suggesting that they could afford a taxi so why do they need free travel.

Well I guess the taxi might be affordable as a one off but not on a regular basis, personally I don't have a problem with free travel for OAPs I think they have earned it, But someone has to pay for it.

I do object to every junkie skank in Dublin having one though. There has been a massive proliferation of free travel passes in the last 10/15 years and the current design of them means that once you get one you have it for life.

Gatling · 17-05-2013 12:32AM

Hmmm I seriously hate when comes to free pass bashing.
Most of us who have a pass don't travel the length and breath of the country on train's a and buses that's a fact most people use them for doctors appointments and weekly shopping ,
Now i do agree there needs to be a massive overhall of the system ,one of the issues on buses mainly Dublin bus isnt just the free passes its fare evasions personally I travel from tallaght to the city centre once a week using my pass now I use the same bus route every week ,90% of people who get on the bus pay the minimum fare available and travel to the city centre then throw in the (pocket tappers ) usually older people with a bag who board the bus and tell the driver I've a pass in my pocket or buried in my bag driver tell them to go on ,
Its a three fold problem add the downturn and less people using the transport system in general,

Change the pass system strictly photo id
Enforce correct fare payments ,
Give drivers powers to ensure proper payments

AlekSmart · 17-05-2013 12:57AM

Victor wrote: »

The exact means of funding the CIE group companies is not publicly known.

1. The amount paid from the Free Travel Scheme is to cover the fares of those who participate in the scheme. The whole scheme is worth in the order of €61m, but Bus Éireann only receive a fraction of this. The bulk would go to Irish Rail and Dublin Bus, who each carry a lot more passengers. A small amount goes to private operators of bus and ferry services.

When it was first conceived, the Free Travel Scheme created a virtuous circle of effects - pensioners could travel for free, transport operators got a revenue on services they would be operating with vacant seats and the government could provide for pensioners. What became problematic was the change in the hours of the scheme about 10 year ago and users were allowed use peak time services. Peak time services are the most expensive services to operate for public transport operators - capacity has to be created that can't be used at off-peak times.

2. The Public Service Obligation (PSO) amount is paid for socially necessary but unprofitable services. That is routes that there is demand for, e.g. routes between home, work, study, retail, medical, etc. where if the service wasn't provided, it would impair people's ability to avail of these services. However, for various reasons, these aren't always financially viable, e.g. low population density, traffic congestion increasing costs for decreased income, etc. The NTA have a mechanism for calculating how socially desirable a service is on their website.

As the NTA control the maximum fares on PSO routes, including special fares for children and schoolchildren, it can be somewhat said that the PSO payment covers that. However, note that with families, child or family fares are an important part of attracting them to public transport over the car.

3. There is no direct link between the Free Travel Scheme and the Public Service Obligation payment.

It's worth pointing out that the Free Travel Scheme Total allocation is c.€77 Million of which the CIE group allocation is €61 Million.

The problem for the "Independent" CIE companies is the methodology used to distribute the funding between the companies is based upon 1973 travel figures.

This has led to some very substantial position statements between the 3 companies as each obviously wants to maximize it's allocation.

Initially the Free Travel Scheme compensated the companies at the actual rate of travel,however 2 years after it's introduction,the Government of the Day negotiated/instructed a 40% discount for the Department,this figure apparently plucked arbitrarily out of the ether.

So Dublin Bus,for example gets 60%,but we do not know which actual Fare that is a percentage of.....is it the €1.65 or the €2.80,because that gives us either €0.99c or €1.68 per button push.

The entire setup of the Free Travel Scheme was always clouded in secrecy,particularly the issue of payments to the companies.

What we now know is that the actual level of payment and the division of it has little actual relevance to the current cost of providing the service to the DSP's customers.

Whilst Victor mentions Seamus Brennans abolition of the Peak Time restriction,which incidentally,was quite strongly resisted by officials within his own department,the reality is that it is no longer the main cause of the Funding Crisis now enveloping the scheme.

The most significant element to challenge the Free Travel Scheme's viability was the expansion of it's coverage to Non-OAP's.

The current situation,which has less than 50% of Free Travel Passes issued to holders of Pension Age,means that c.500,000 individuals (Holders & Spouse/Partner/Companion) of employable age do not have to pay for Public Transport within the State.

It is a situation which cannot be sustained,except with the active co-operation and controlability of a State Overseen Public Transport operator.

What we,as in the citizenry,have to decide is whether we value the Free Travel Scheme enough to allow the Status-Quo to be maintained,or we trust in the Free Market to allow competition to set and maintain Fares low enough to be affordable by those currently travelling for nowt.

I found this article to be of interest,particularly the final line....

http://irishsocialcapital.wordpress.com/2012/09/08/review-of-expensive-free-travel-scheme-essential-a-huge-social-capital-topic/

Free travel now accounts for one-fifth of all journeys on intercity trains.

:eek:

Jamie2k9 · 17-05-2013 02:14AM

If there isn't a review of the free travel scheme if the near future it will be of great concern to CIE. We are an ageing population and in less than 30 years if nothing is done there will be more pass holders than fare paying passengers!!. Seem as the current figures are based on 1973 we will be lucky if we have the year 2043 based on 2013 figures. Its a discrase that the DoSP doesn't know what numbers have passes and that payments are based on 1973, is it any wonder that half the people on social welfare know the system inside out and well and commit fraud. Its time that Joan Burton and co. get a grip and deal with problems instead of putting them on the long finger.

foggy_lad · 17-05-2013 03:27AM

They could start by making it a means tested benefit and could include the rest if the houshold benefit payments.

gbob · 17-05-2013 03:32AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

They could start by making it a means tested benefit and coyld inckude the reat if the houshold benefit package in that.

That makes about as much sense as your usual posts !

Gatling · 17-05-2013 03:54AM

Considering the numbers I get DA along with 99,000 others who also have a bus pass ,
Social welfare issue passes to 99,000 (others ) they don't say what that "others" actually are getting them for ,90+000 carers if I'm correct

Means testing could work ,

I'd prefer a leap style card or a strictly controlled bus pass system photo id + signature and trackable if possible
I've seen up to 6 people board a bus with one flash of a piece of paper some junkie claiming there all covered on the pass

foggy_lad · 17-05-2013 04:26AM

Gatling wrote: »

Considering the numbers I get DA along with 99,000 others who also have a bus pass ,
Social welfare issue passes to 99,000 (others ) they don't say what that "others" actually are getting them for ,90+000 carers if I'm correct

Means testing could work ,

I'd prefer a leap style card or a strictly controlled bus pass system photo id + signature and trackable if possible
I've seen up to 6 people board a bus with one flash of a piece of paper some junkie claiming there all covered on the pass

Any pass or card is only going to be as effective at reducing fraud as those who should be policing it. First line of defence is railway ticket checkers and bus drivers. .

Owryan · 17-05-2013 10:31AM

I use my pass to travel by train from Carlow to Kilkenny once a week for traveling to hospital.

In Carlow they just give me the sw ticket for a single trip but in Kilkenny I get a return and the ticket will have the last 3 digits of my pps number on it .

cdebru · 17-05-2013 10:48AM

daheff wrote: »

i've just renewed my annual train/bus ticket (because i need both to get to work -train only goes to heuston i go to city centre ). 1400 euros. Last year it was 1250.

if they increase it again then its CHEAPER to travel by car and more convenient.

so tell me again why we have public transport??

1 million free travel passes, CIE gets 60 million euro for those that is 60 euro a year for a bus and train ticket, completely unsustainable that is why you pay 1400 they are only paying 60.

No such thing as free travel, you are the one pa

doubletrouble? · 17-05-2013 11:56AM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Any pass or card is only going to be as effective at reducing fraud as those who should be policing it. First line of defence is railway ticket checkers and bus drivers. .

Foggy there are so many different types of S/W. passes alone that with the exception of inspectors most front line staff are not trained in what these different types are for, then if they were to check every pass it would cause massive delays each time. A.F.I.K you only need photo i.d. within dublin, waterford and cork when using your pass (please correct me if i'm wrong on these counties or have left out one or two). now take into account that some D.B. routes enter the surrounding counties of dublin where no photo i.d. is required this now becomes a major headache for most of these drivers. this problem can only and is only getting worse especially where scams are concerned.

AlekSmart · 17-05-2013 12:06PM

cdebru wrote: »

1 million free travel passes, CIE gets 60 million euro for those that is 60 euro a year for a bus and train ticket, completely unsustainable that is why you pay 1400 they are only paying 60.

No such thing as free travel, you are the one pa

Perhaps simplistic,but nonetheless accurate.

With an annual CIE "All Services" Pass retailing today at €5,340,we have a ballpark figure for the value of a DSP document.

Allowing for the fact that the CIE retail product is not valid on Private Services or Island Helicopters,I would suggest €5,000 as a fair assessment,considering the unrestricted nature of the DSP document.

The numbers of legitimate Free Pass holders now stands >740,000,with persons covered coming in at >1.1 Million.

The math,as the yanks might say,do my head in,but one can see there is a significant gulf between the €77 Million paid by the DSP and the c.€5K per person value of the Pass itself.

With all PT operators now struggling to adapt to the new environment,we are witnessing two differing approaches to the issue.

With the DSP not entertaining any further Free Travel claims the Operators are either Not Accepting Free Travel scrip,or,as in the case of the CIE companies,cutting back on service levels in an attempt to match the 2010 levels of funding.

Whilst the Secretary General of the DSP may well believe it is a viable proposition to state that her Department can continue to add ever more users to the scheme,whilst maintaining funding at 2010 levels,the reality is different.

The realization is only beginning to dawn in many circles that we have a serious problem here.

Anybody who questions the current situation tends to be deemed anti-social or in some way against-the Poor etc etc.

However,for me,the,now very real,threat of the entire scheme collapsing should be focusing the minds of everybody concerned.

The original Free Travel Scheme was a bold and innovative step by a Country not renowned for such things,and I consider it a disgrace that we have now reached this situation.

First Step required,in my opinion,is to revert to the original intended situation....Old Age Pension recipients ONLY,with NO Spouse/Partner entitlement. which would immediately halve the numbers.

Then enter into negotiations with the Service Providers for a realistically funded,viable Concessionary Travel scheme,now much easier achieved through Smart-Card technology.

However there is no time left for studies,reports or the likes....This scheme is in serious difficulty and will not last much longer before collapsing altogether and bringing a hell of a lot more down along with it.

foggy_lad · 17-05-2013 12:06PM

Owryan wrote: »

I use my pass to travel by train from Carlow to Kilkenny once a week for traveling to hospital.

In Carlow they just give me the sw ticket for a single trip but in Kilkenny I get a return and the ticket will have the last 3 digits of my pps number on it .

That is just Irish rails way of artificially inflating passenger numbers. They give all sw pass holders return tickets unless they ask for a single. You should be getting the return from Carlow and you are only doing two journeys but on their books you are down for three.

AlekSmart · 17-05-2013 12:10PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

That is just Irish rails way of artificially inflating passenger numbers. They give all sw pass holders return tickets unless they ask for a single. You should be getting the return from Carlow and you are only doing two journeys but on their books you are down for three.

Foggy,my man,have you sent this evidence to the relevant authorities ?

I should imagine the NTA and the DSP would be interested as might the Gardai..as it amounts to fraud ...

Jamie2k9 · 17-05-2013 12:11PM

If you want a return ticket you have to say the word "return" how are staff in Carlow to know you coming back on the same day OP? Are they mind readers as well as ticketing staff.

Its Kilkenny staff here that are in the wrong they should not be giving out return tickets unless you are going back on the same day and you make that clear to them.