The Academies

lurtz wrote: »

I dont know if anyone heard but the closest thing we actually have to a 7s team won the kinsale tournament at the weekend,first irish team to do it in ages!
the wild geese,as theyre known, are a sort of invitational team with the best AIL players playing. the team for includes lads like charlie butterworth,craig ronaldson,ciaran ruddock,cian aherne, danny kenny..all top quality AIL players. they also won the amateur section of the dubai tournament earlier this year. The case is more prevalent than ever for an irish mens 7s team. I agree it would be absolutely invaluable experience for any player in Ireland and many would jump at such an opportunity as you said

Didn't Ireland have a 7s side before?? What happened to it. Am certain Cian Aherne was apart of it. NZ use it as a step from 20s to NPC/SXV, always have young lads going through that way. We should consider this, be great for centres, wings and fullbacks to improve their footwork, one-on-one defence and finishing ability

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Might be out on my own with this one, but 7's leaves me completely cold.

I think we have enough teams to develop to younger players to be honest

Do we really, A sides and AIL clubs with amateur players. Having a 7s side that would take the best players from academy's and Clubs to progress them against other pros, think would suit backs and opensides really well

P.Walnuts wrote: »

We have the B&I cup, regular A matches and when the international players go to Ireland it frees up some space in he first team for he better academy players, I think perhaps in a country with larger playing numbers it would make sense to use 7's as another development tool, but I reckon here most of the players that are of high enough standard are getting the development they need through the academy system.

B&I cup is played with lads on the fringes of the first team, Leinster are the only side to dip into their academy deeply to fill it. Munster have had likes of Gerry Hurley, Billy Holland, Marcus Horan, CJ Stander playing when they are all senior players, i dont think it works as well as it should for player development. The A fixtures aren't all that regulr, maybe 3 a yr. My point is putting lads that are outta 20s rugby in the backrow and back 3/centres up against other athletes like them would be a major learning curve and with squads only consisting of 10-12 players it would be very specified so would be the creme de le creme selected to further there development. Could see the likes of Rory Scholes, Rory Scannell, Joyce, Panther and Murphy from this seasons 20s side to a 7s squad to progress their development

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

B&I cup is played with lads on the fringes of the first team, Leinster are the only side to dip into their academy deeply to fill it.

Leinster are not the only team to use their academy in the B&I cup

its_phil wrote: »

Leinster are not the only team to use their academy in the B&I cup

We certainly aren't! Ulster and Connacht fill their sides with academy players and there's plenty in Munster's B&I side as well

Tox56 wrote: »

What's the story with Ulster? They're producing lots of players, but their Ravens team doesnt seem to make much of an impression. Munster and Leinster's A teams by contrast are always there or thereabouts in the semi's and finals of the B&I cup

It's a good question. There are a number of possible answers.

In terms of this season, our senior squad was ravaged by injuries at times which had a knock on effect on the Ravens.

Also many of our young players have been fast tracked through the system and probably haven't played as many Ravens games as other 20/21/22 year olds at the other provinces might have done. Remember Ulster missed out on the so-called golden generation so the likes of Henderson, Jackson, Marshall and Gilroy etc didn't have players like BOD, POC, ROG, D'Arcy etc holding them back. Take someone like JJ Hanrahan, he's clearly a top player, he's the same age as Jackson but has played most of his rugby for the Munster A team because of those ahead of him. Robbie Henshaw at Connacht is another case in point, if he were at Munster or Leinster he'd have spent the last 12 months playing B&I Cup rugby with the occasional Pro 12 cameo, so players like Hanrahan, Macken, Conway etc have had it tough in that respect. However it strengthens Munster and Leinster's A teams.

The final thing I can think of is that Ulster are pretty ruthless with their youngsters, if they are borderline they get sent packing to the likes of Rotherham or Doncaster for a year and I suppose these are guys who would otherwise be playing for the Ravens. In saying that I would have thought that all the provinces are ruthless in this way.

Buer wrote: »

I would say, in addition to the above, bilston, the development and product line at Ulster has centered largely around the back line. You have them coming out your ears at this stage and of a high quality. Forwards not so much and, the ones that are coming through, take a longer time to get up to speed and adjust to senior rugby unless they're physical freaks such as IH (and that is not Ian Humphreys for the sake of clarity).

This is being addressed with recruitment initiatives and Ulster are keenly aware of the situation, I'm sure. The age profile of the pack is, generally, such that they'll be fine for another couple of years but now is the time to start feeding some angry, oddly shaped teenagers and telling them to stop picking up the ball.

Yep, I think this is pretty fair, the only two forwards of note that we've produced in the last few years have been Henderson and McAlistair and unfortunately Paddy Mac has spent a fair while injured. Our Ravens backlines can be as talented as they want but if the pack aren't up to it then the Ravens won't be very successful, at least not at the business end of the B&I Cup.

Kyle McCall is quite promising as is Conor Joyce but I'm not sure how far they'll go. I have heard rumour of a big second row in the Academy, think his name is Russell Blair, but he's been injured (shock an injured Ulster player:eek:) all season, I've never seen him play myself but apparently he is a large specimen and quite talented as well.

I'd be very surprised if O'Gara ended up in Stade Francais - only this week Stade have confirmed the signing of Morne Steyn on a three-year contract. They also have a young homegrown outhalf, Jules Plisson, who has really begun to break through this year and may well start for them in next week's Amlin final.

As for Peter Lydon I'd say fair play to him. You might as well take the opportunity while you have it and all the more so since he is still only 20. With the former outhalf Gonzalo Quesada coming in as head coach you never know what could happen.

CGD wrote: »

7 months a Seapoint Player. Developed in Kilkenny College and progressed with Lansdowne 21's and left them last season to go to Seapoint. Not sure its agreat move for him especially as he might have to listen to ROG next year if reports are correct. You go all that way for a fresh start and you end up listening to a Cork man every day. Hope he does well!

CGD wrote: »

Watched him a bit this year he is talented and has a serious boot but always wondered why he left Lansdowne? If he is that good he would be replacing Ronaldson there now maybe wasn't patient enough or they did't rate him that highly or maybe he just didn't get on there?? who knows but interesting that he hasn't been snapped up by a 1a club that would have probably been better for him. Still young though anything could happen!

How can you say its not a good move?
A move from ail 2a to one of the biggest clubs in Europe is obviously a good move! a contract anywhere would be a good move..you take what you're offered. the reason he moved from lansdowne to seapoint is because they incentivised it

CGD wrote: »

Stade academy isn't that highly rated and notknown for developing non french talent think the coach from Seapoint has someort of connection not as glamourous as it sounds. But a I said I hope it woks out or him

professional is professional in the end of the day. if he moved to play super 10 in italy it'd be good! yeah Nigel Osbourne had the stade kicking coach over and thats how he got offered

lurtz wrote: »

the peter lydon contract offer confirmed on irish rugby

Recent Seapoint players who have progressed to professional ranks include Felix Jones (Munster), Aaron Dundon (Leinster) and Mick Noone (Leicester) while this year's 20 year-old out-half Peter Lydon has recently been offered a contract with Stade Francais.

rog also going there