running a boiler dry

QBE · 01-05-2013 12:10am

esox28 wrote: »

Oh and would we be taking into consideration the air tightness of the 1970 house or the ach of the 2010 with a value of less than 50q a wall make of .15w/m*k. with a sw orentation, don't think for one second your little meres calculator with have the answer for the heat input requirements for the modern day energy efficent house..

well a bunglow be double heat loss. but all these factors need to be allowed for.
you have not answered any of my questions?

its mere basics of economy and comfort.

pa990 · 01-05-2013 12:18am

I think my question relating to my KERO BOILER was answered on page one.

Thanks to all for an informative read about the do's and donts for a gas boiler that I have never had.

esox28 · 01-05-2013 12:22am

Yea well if ya ever get one make sure its he and get it service annually or more frequently as per mi's.

QBE · 01-05-2013 12:23am

pa990 wrote: »

I think my question relating to my KERO BOILER was answered on page one.

Thanks to all for an informative read about the do's and donts for a gas boiler that I have never had.

and a little adjustment to your boiler could save as little as 3e for every 100e spent on oil to possibly 10/15e on every 100e spent on oil. that's what experience can get you. but the loss factor is obtained every day of the week. due to a lack of knowkedge.

QBE · 01-05-2013 12:25am

esox28 wrote: »

Yea well if ya ever get one make sure its he and get it service annually or more frequently as per mi's.

thanks. you answered all my questions.

you done rgi proud. :rolleyes:

if you need advice. you know who to ask now, im all ears.

esox28 · 01-05-2013 12:27am

Your just after doing the oil boiler course am I right or wrong qbe

QBE · 01-05-2013 12:32am

esox28 wrote: »

Your just after doing the oil boiler course am I right or wrong qbe

I done a course called an apprenticeship. I spent 2 years stripping boilers and putting them back together in st ~~~~ hospital. I listened to the older lads and learned fast. I done every course offered to me. its called knowledge.

I worked until now for others. because I didn't think I knew enough. when the company you worked for since an apprentice. starts asking you how to solve things.

you understand that its time to be self employed. got me?

QBE · 01-05-2013 12:36am

apologies. I should have said.
when the company you worked for IS THE LEADER IN THE INDUSTRY . starts asking you how to solve things.

whos running the company?

QBE · 01-05-2013 12:46am

@ esok28.

when you worked in the most dangerous industrial invoirnment in Ireland. an industrial gas company. you learn whats safty is about, I have more saty certs than plumbing ones. I know whats safe and whats not.

that's why I laugh sometimes about . the fear factor

esox28 · 01-05-2013 12:48am

You served your time doing maintance in a hoispital oh i c now. Do you think you know enough to be give advice on domestic installationa

QBE · 01-05-2013 12:51am

esox28 wrote: »

You served your time doing maintance in a hoispital oh i c now. Do you think you know enough to be give advice on domestic installationa

I never worked for a hospital. when their tech turned the boiler over, it was the big boys fixed them. you got me now?

QBE · 01-05-2013 1:19am

jimf wrote: »

but when I leave it will be working aswell as some new boilers are fitted. got me?

you have arrived just in time to save the world from all the cowboy installers and yes i think ive got you

maybe not just cowboys, the gob****es aswell. you gou got me again?

and I respect your response. because iv got you to. meaning I know your on the ball, as well.

.jacksparrow. · 01-05-2013 6:17am

QBE wrote: »

I done a course called an apprenticeship. I spent 2 years stripping boilers and putting them back together in st ~~~~ hospital. I listened to the older lads and learned fast. I done every course offered to me. its called knowledge.

I worked until now for others. because I didn't think I knew enough. when the company you worked for since an apprentice. starts asking you how to solve things.

you understand that its time to be self employed. got me?

Do you know how vast the industrial industry is?

There is hundreds of different burners and steam boilers etc.

Working in one hospital doesn't cover even 5 percent of the industry.

Billy Bunting · 01-05-2013 7:19am

QBE wrote: »

@ esok28.

when you worked in the most dangerous industrial invoirnment in Ireland. an industrial gas company. you learn whats safty is about, I have more saty certs than plumbing ones. I know whats safe and whats not.

that's why I laugh sometimes about . the fear factor

And yet you dish out unsafe information on here, its the fear factor that keeps people alive and i suggest you have become complacent over the years and that sir is not a good tool to carry in your RGI tool bag.

01-05-2013 8:57am

QBE wrote: »

@ esok28.

when you worked in the most dangerous industrial invoirnment in Ireland. an industrial gas company. you learn whats safty is about, I have more saty certs than plumbing ones. I know whats safe and whats not.

that's why I laugh sometimes about . the fear factor

I once removed a gas meter from a kitchen that was covered in putrified OAP that had fell against the meter after the opened flued boiler killed the OAP with CO , another time I got called to assist police as a body was found in a bath and they wanted the cause of death determined and the appliance made safe, it was a opened flued water heater above the bath that killed him, the body was still in the bath and dropping a screw wasn't a option:eek:.

I have more experiences but I won't go on. "the fear factor" is the most important thing to any tradesman dealing with things that can kill, the ease at which a life can be taken is frightening, look at that teenager who's life was taken because there was no screws in the flue.

Every service is a opportunity to confirm safe operation of a appliance, not all appliances are dangerous but every death I was witness to would have been prevented with something as simple as a service.

DGOBS · 01-05-2013 11:48am

and should also be trained to be honest . I called to see a protential client today.
The rgi (I assume) as he quoted for installing a new condensing boiler, told the lady of the house to renew the heating system pipework and update the boiler. He was employed to clean the heating system, but found a leak.

He wants to renew the copper pipes with plastic (gob****e) and I had a look and the boilers fine. A few adjustments needed. Can I report him to rgi, Ill sort all this ladies problems out for less than 500/600e.

be safe be wise....should be the motto

Just read this thread, been with 14 apprentices for a few days (good lads)

How did you come the conclusion that the boiler just needed adjustment?
Do you mean flow/return differentials and balancing?
Or an issue with burner pressures etc?

jimf · 01-05-2013 1:15pm

pa990 wrote: »

What are the risks or dangers of running out of home heating oil (kero). Besides having to bleed it.

Will it damage the pump ?

apart from the obvious filters drawing in sludge etc it would not be good for the oil pump on the burner to be run dry regularly as its the oil that it gets its lubrication from

so yes it can damage the pump

QBE · 01-05-2013 3:57pm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Do you know how vast the industrial industry is?

There is hundreds of different burners and steam boilers etc.

Working in one hospital doesn't cover even 5 percent of the industry.

im not going to even answer that. what you think I done in the industry for the other 18 years. never a day unemployed in the sector.

You need any advice on that 5% or the other 95 %. kido you just ask me.

QBE · 01-05-2013 3:59pm

jimf wrote: »

apart from the obvious filters drawing in sludge etc it would not be good for the oil pump on the burner to be run dry regularly as its the oil that it gets its lubrication from

so yes it can damage the pump

if your oil pump constantly runs. you have a bigger issue than no oil. maybe the actuator or electrical fault. no oil , burner cuts out. if left unsed for a time lubrication can be an issue.

.jacksparrow. · 01-05-2013 3:59pm

QBE wrote: »

im not going to even answer that. what you think I done in the industry for the other 18 years. never a day unemployed in the sector.

You need any advice on that 5% or the other 95 %. kido you just ask me.

Ah that's fair enough I thought you meant you only worked 2 years on steam boilers and that while in hospital, good stuff.

QBE · 01-05-2013 4:03pm

DGOBS wrote: »

Just read this thread, been with 14 apprentices for a few days (good lads)

1. How did you come the conclusion that the boiler just needed adjustment?
2. Do you mean flow/return differentials and balancing?
3. Or an issue with burner pressures etc?

1. experience . that was confirmed with a couple of tests.
2. yes.
3. can be part of 2.

QBE · 01-05-2013 4:07pm

I think I answered every thing fired at me in the above. however @ billy & Gary71......maybe I have become complacent over the years. Maybe its also amalgamated with knowledge and experience leading to cockiness.

Dtp79 · 01-05-2013 4:17pm

QBE wrote: »

I think I answered every thing fired at me in the above. however @ billy & Gary71......maybe I have become complacent over the years. Maybe its also amalgamated with knowledge and experience leading to cockiness.

If your gonna be self employee maybe you'd wanna take that cockiness back a step or 2 before some is killed

QBE · 01-05-2013 4:55pm

Dtp79 wrote: »

If your gonna be self employee maybe you'd wanna take that cockiness back a step or 2 before some is killed

@dtp79. id say the majority could do with the knowledge and experience that probably lead to it.

No id never leave a job unsafe. guaranteed kido.
_______________________________________________________________
2 things I provide all my protential clientswith is ( in great detail ) Comfort & economy. (in assessment and quaotation)

safty is applied to all my services.

The point im making is I don't just say . ah ye mrs you need a new boiler and a repipe. common every day saying. that needs to be replaced. no anything can be repaired, it depends on the cost factor.

I have seen good pumps , boilers, burners , showers ect. replaced over the years at great expense . when all that was required was a part with a value of less than €1. the industry is full of gob****es . if they don't know the full ins out outs of how things work. then replacement is the answer, safety is applied by getting rid.

you got me? is that what you do?

sullzz · 01-05-2013 5:00pm

QBE wrote: »

@dtp79. id say the majority could do with the knowledge and experience that probably lead to it.

No id never leave a job unsafe. guaranteed kido.
_______________________________________________________________
2 things I provide all my protential clientswith is ( in great detail ) Comfort & economy. (in assessment and quaotation)

safty is applied to all my services.

The point im making is I don't just say . ah ye mrs you need a new boiler and a repipe. common every day saying. that needs to be replaced. no anything can be repaired, it depends on the cost factor.

I have seen good pumps , boilers, burners , showers ect. replaced over the years at great expense . when all that was required was a part with a value of less than €1. the industry is full of gob****es . if they don't know the full ins out outs of how things work. then replacement is the answer, safety is applied by getting rid.

you got me? is that what you do?

Please stop saying " you got me ?" in every post , its actually very annoying.

You got me ?

QBE · 01-05-2013 5:02pm

sullzz wrote: »

Please stop saying " you got me ?" in every post , its actually very annoying.

You got me ?

I got ye:D

QBE · 01-05-2013 5:14pm

just to add . theres an industry out there for repairs. my young lad 15 years old schoolboy makes a wage for himself out of it. (taxman might be onto him soon)

anyone that replaced a monsoon pump less than 8 years old . pm me ill buy it off you. same applies to oil burners. ill buy them also. pm anything like that ill buy them.

pa990 · 01-05-2013 5:15pm

jimf wrote: »

apart from the obvious filters drawing in sludge etc it would not be good for the oil pump on the burner to be run dry regularly as its the oil that it gets its lubrication from

so yes it can damage the pump

it's only ever run dry once, when someone relieved me of my heating oil while i was away for a few days (Ba$tárd$)
Other than that its serviced yearly and i use dipetane

Whether or not dipetane is of any use i dunno, but at €30 for 5L, i use it all the same.

as i said previously, i'm gonna wait till late june or july until i fill her up again (900L tank) as hopeflly kero prices will be a a yearly low about then.

And if it runs out in the mean time so be it. I just didnt want to be causing damage to the pump.
Although i do know of people that run their heating using emergency drums of kero, and they must be running their boiler dry on a weekly basis.. surely that cant be good.

jimf · 01-05-2013 6:25pm

QBE wrote: »

if your oil pump constantly runs. you have a bigger issue than no oil. maybe the actuator or electrical fault. no oil , burner cuts out. if left unsed for a time lubrication can be an issue.

qbe you seem to jump in with answers that are totally off topic i simply advised not to allow his oil tank to empty on a regular basis as this will then mean his burner pump runs dry hence no lube the issue you refer to 95% of the time will be beyond the capabilities of the average diyer

QBE · 01-05-2013 6:36pm

jimf wrote: »

qbe .. i simply advised not to allow his oil tank to empty on a regular basis as this will then mean his burner pump runs dry hence no lube the issue you refer to 95% of the time will be beyond the capabilities of the average diyer

no you stated "it can damage the pump" I simply stated other than an electrical fault . its highly unlikely. however left unused for a long period without fuel. (will cause your lube issue) .

the 95% can be the diyer and add to that the 80+ % in the industry

jimf · 01-05-2013 6:37pm

its a sign of the times im afraid re 25l drums the amount of calls ive had this year with blocked filters etc have been way up on last year its ****s law if they had the money they would buy more oil so then they have to fork out to us to try and get them heat again i do really feel sorry for these people and charge as low as possible

but on the other hand its my living and i have to come first i have bills to pay as well

jimf · 01-05-2013 6:46pm

QBE wrote: »

no you stated "it can damage the pump" I simply stated other than an electrical fault . its highly unlikely. however left unused for a long period without fuel. (will cause your lube issue) .

the 95% can be the diyer and add to that the 80+ % in the industry

im sure someday in the very distant future i just might see your point of view but not anytime soon are you really being serious when you say that somebody that lets their oil burner run dry on a regular basis are having no adverse effects on the oil pump of their oil burner

if you know the oil level of your car/van is low do you then wait until the oil light illuminates before you top up i dont think so but then again maybe you do

QBE · 01-05-2013 6:46pm

jimf wrote: »

its a sign of the times im afraid re 25l drums the amount of calls ive had this year with blocked filters etc have been way up on last year its ****s law if they had the money they would buy more oil so then they have to fork out to us to try and get them heat again i do really feel sorry for these people and charge as low as possible

but on the other hand its my living and i have to come first i have bills to pay as well

they must be buying dirty fuel. because if they filled up there tank. this problem can occur regardless where you get the fuel.

back to basics .... clean tank, clean fuel = clean pipe line

QBE · 01-05-2013 6:49pm

jimf wrote: »

im sure someday in the very distant future i just might see your point of view but not anytime soon are you really being serious when you say that somebody that lets their oil burner run dry on a regular basis are having no adverse effects on the oil pump of their oil burner

if you know the oil level of your car/van is low do you then wait until the oil light illuminates before you top up i dont think so but then again maybe you do

I never said on a regular basis. the op asked the dangers if he runs out of oil.

jimf · 01-05-2013 6:53pm

QBE wrote: »

they must be buying dirty fuel. because if they filled up there tank. this problem can occur regardless where you get the fuel.

back to basics .... clean tank, clean fuel = clean pipe line

do you honestly think that these people are topping up with 25l drums and letting the oil settle for at least 1 hour before bleeding and firing up their boiler

jimf · 01-05-2013 6:56pm

QBE wrote: »

I never said on a regular basis. the op asked the dangers if he runs out of oil.

your spot on there so you see i can agree with you but if you read my post again i advised if its done on a regular basis

QBE · 01-05-2013 6:56pm

jimf wrote: »

do you honestly think that these people are topping up with 25l drums and letting the oil settle for at least 1 hour before bleeding and firing up their boiler

well that's basics. I thought that would be logic.

To cause (a liquid) to become clear by forming a sediment.

basic = leave to rest

.jacksparrow. · 01-05-2013 7:06pm

This thread is giving me a headache.

QBE · 01-05-2013 7:09pm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

This thread is giving me a headache.

ill add to your headache. cos I just deleted last post my error

no pump is designed to run dry. but safty features design the appliance to stop and mitigate/prevent problems. cant stop dirt becoming a nuisance. but stops the pump from running dry. hense my answer.

NOW 2 PIPE SYSTEMS ARE DIFFERNT? IS THAT WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT JIMF?

Dtp79 · 01-05-2013 7:14pm

QBE wrote: »

@dtp79. id say the majority could do with the knowledge and experience that probably lead to it.

No id never leave a job unsafe. guaranteed kido.
_______________________________________________________________
2 things I provide all my protential clientswith is ( in great detail ) Comfort & economy. (in assessment and quaotation)

safty is applied to all my services.

The point im making is I don't just say . ah ye mrs you need a new boiler and a repipe. common every day saying. that needs to be replaced. no anything can be repaired, it depends on the cost factor.

I have seen good pumps , boilers, burners , showers ect. replaced over the years at great expense . when all that was required was a part with a value of less than €1. the industry is full of gob****es . if they don't know the full ins out outs of how things work. then replacement is the answer, safety is applied by getting rid.

you got me? is that what you do?

No I don't do that. But sometimes customers would rather buy a new efficient gas boiler rather than putting new parts on a 15 year old gas boiler

QBE · 01-05-2013 7:18pm

Dtp79 wrote: »

No I don't do that. But sometimes customers would rather buy a new efficient gas boiler rather than putting new parts on a 15 year old gas boiler

that's good. so you advice on cost and savings over the time of usage on both matters. that's good. pity more are not like you.

I thought the new one was.....jesus mrs that boiler needs replacing without a diagnosis.

Dtp79 · 01-05-2013 7:20pm

QBE wrote: »

that's good. so you advice on cost and savings over the time of usage on both matters. that's good. pity more are not like you.

I thought the new one was.....jesus mrs that boiler needs replacing.

There's plenty like me but there's also cowboys in every trade unfortunately

DGOBS · 01-05-2013 8:05pm

Originally Posted by DGOBS
Just read this thread, been with 14 apprentices for a few days (good lads)

1. How did you come the conclusion that the boiler just needed adjustment?
2. Do you mean flow/return differentials and balancing?
3. Or an issue with burner pressures etc?

You replied

1. experience . that was confirmed with a couple of tests.
2. yes.
3. can be part of 2.

What tests?

Billy Bunting · 01-05-2013 8:08pm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

This thread is giving me a headache.

He's giving me an headache, so full of sh%te but don't seem to know it. :rolleyes:

Dtp79 · 01-05-2013 8:31pm

Billy Bunting wrote: »

He's giving me an headache, so full of sh%te but don't seem to know it. :rolleyes:

As the sayin goes he'd give a Panadol a headache!!

KoolKid · 01-05-2013 8:35pm

Don't think this is going anywhere..

running a boiler dry

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