Cyclists, rules of the road, a bit of cop on!

Ush1 · 30-04-2013 12:55PM

CramCycle wrote: »

But the horn can be used to point out to the driver his driving is dangerous can it not, alot of drivers may not realise what constitutes a close overtake to a cyclist as it is often hard to tell without experience in the other road users shoes, hence the 1.5m recommended overtake distance.

i thought he blew the horn to say, "Jeebus, that was close, at least you know it's not appreciated and may think twice in future".

I beep the horn in the car to show people when they pull into quick or without due care and attention, it doesn't matter if its after the fact (or often during), there is nothing wrong or illegal with it. I don't get out of my car or off my bike when someone beeps at me, that would be both rare and stupid. If I am in the wrong, I hold up my hands, if I don't know why I am getting beeped, and I am on the bike, I will often ask, most of the time it ends pleasantly, with one or the other realising their mistake.

It can be but shouldn't, it's a warning device not for teaching other road users.

seamus · 30-04-2013 01:23PM

Ush1 wrote: »

It can be but shouldn't, it's a warning device not for teaching other road users.

Exactly, it's a warning device as in, "Hey, I'm here and you're overtaking too close to me". If the cyclist had beeped when the overtake had been completed, you'd have a point. But he didn't. He beeped when the guy got too close.

Looking at the speed that the driver stopped and opened his door, it was clear that he was intentionally trying to provoke a reaction from the cyclist and decided it was "game on" when he got beeped at.

A classic scumbag.

brokenarms · 30-04-2013 01:24PM

Jawgap wrote: »

I'd go with running (or cycling) and hiding - I've long passed the stage where I need to demonstrate backbone - plus it looks better if you try to remove yourself from the situation when you go for payback in court - the payout is much bigger and tends to hurt more than any slap I could dish out;)

The thing is with that. If you don't stand up for yourself and take a beating, you will be up every night wondering what you could have done, feeling like a victim. But if you defend yourself at least you know you were brave enough to fightback .
I would rather suffer a black eye and hold my head high rather than sob into my pillow for a month.
The coward on the bike. His biggest injury that day will be his pride.

He got no money by the way. The guy in the car was given a warning by the court.

Some posters think this is some type of macho stance. I would call it self respect ..
Let them at it. I hope there friends or family never need them in a real situation. Which will happen sooner or later unless they live in a bubble.

Jawgap · 30-04-2013 01:49PM

brokenarms wrote: »

The thing is with that. If you don't stand up for yourself and take a beating, you will be up every night wondering what you could have done, feeling like a victim. But if you defend yourself at least you know you were brave enough to fightback .
I would rather suffer a black eye and hold my head high rather than sob into my pillow for a month.
The coward on the bike. His biggest injury that day will be his pride.

He got no money by the way. The guy in the car was given a warning by the court.

Some posters think this is some type of macho stance. I would call it self respect ..
Let them at it. I hope there friends or family never need them in a real situation. Which will happen sooner or later unless they live in a bubble.

I think the police disposed of the criminal part of the 'fracas' - I was referring more to the civil case I'd pursue.

If it was me I'd back away and if I got thumped I'd pursue it through the courts, then buy myself something shiny and new with the money, and 'console' myself by cycling that for a bit.

Maybe my pride would take a bit of a dent for a day or two, but I've loads of self-respect and a big enough ego to know I don't need to reinforce it by demeaning myself in a street brawl.

seamus · 30-04-2013 01:51PM

Personally I'd feel far more ashamed if I got arrested and/or ended up in court because I got into a public brawl with some dirty scumbag.

Tigger · 30-04-2013 01:52PM

brokenarms wrote: »

The thing is with that. If you don't stand up for yourself and take a beating, you will be up every night wondering what you could have done, feeling like a victim. But if you defend yourself at least you know you were brave enough to fightback .
I would rather suffer a black eye and hold my head high rather than sob into my pillow for a month.
The coward on the bike. His biggest injury that day will be his pride.

He got no money by the way. The guy in the car was given a warning by the court.

Some posters think this is some type of macho stance. I would call it self respect ..
Let them at it. I hope there friends or family never need them in a real situation. Which will happen sooner or later unless they live in a bubble.

the guy on the bike isn't a coward just cos violence dosen't suit him he's simply not a violent man.
the guy in the van isn't standing up for himself it isn't self respect to beat on someone for beeping at you its violent non-sense, i'd have beeped in the same circumstances and i'd have done serious damage to him if he'd come at me like that.
i don't believe that this makes me any better than the cyclist in the video just different.

the guy in the van is a scumbag bully tho and i reckon he'd run away if the cyclist had seemed keen to fight.

Ray Palmer · 30-04-2013 01:53PM

brokenarms wrote: »

The thing is with that. If you don't stand up for yourself and take a beating, you will be up every night wondering what you could have done, feeling like a victim. But if you defend yourself at least you know you were brave enough to fightback .
I would rather suffer a black eye and hold my head high rather than sob into my pillow for a month.
The coward on the bike. His biggest injury that day will be his pride.

He got no money by the way. The guy in the car was given a warning by the court.

Some posters think this is some type of macho stance. I would call it self respect ..
Let them at it. I hope there friends or family never need them in a real situation. Which will happen sooner or later unless they live in a bubble.

I rather regret not hitting somebody than be responsible for a serious injury to another person that effects the rest of their life. Then again I wouldn't really regret it anyway as that is pretty sad to see yourself as a victim. Some people take pride in not hitting somebody, that is self respect not lowering yourself to scumbag standards.

I regret breaking a guys nose after he started a fight with me. I still see him and his nose is still messed up. I don't have pride over it. One punch can cause a lot of damage and can kill. Don't think somebody should die over attacking me or be have to live with a scar.

You should evaluate what you see as self respect because not many people will respect you for being good in a fight or loosing your temper.

brokenarms · 30-04-2013 02:02PM

The man in the van is a bully. I did say that and was not defending him.

Im really surprised by the posts saying you should turn the other cheek though.

Let the bad man beat and chase you is the wrong thing to do.
And so is running to the claim court IMO.

I guess different strokes for different folks . I was an amatuer boxer for 7 years by the way. Bullies don't frighten me.

Jawgap · 30-04-2013 02:10PM

brokenarms wrote: »

The man in the van is a bully. I did say that and was not defending him.

Im really surprised by the posts saying you should turn the other cheek though.

Let the bad man beat and chase you is the wrong thing to do.
And so is running to the claim court IMO.

I guess different strokes for different folks . I was an amatuer boxer for 7 years by the way. Bullies don't frighten me.

.....And I've played and reffed rugby for over 20 years and if learned one thing over the years it's that the person who retaliates tends to end up in more trouble than the person who initiates - also, the best response to getting thumped is a try in the corner:)

It's not about 'turning the other cheek' - it's about being sensible. The last thing I'd ever want to have to do is explain to my kids why there is a man in hospital because of me, why there is Guard at the door looking for me or why I have to go to court as a defendant.

Maybe suing his a$$ is not very macho, but it's certainly likely to be more rewarding!

Ray Palmer · 30-04-2013 02:21PM

brokenarms wrote: »

I guess different strokes for different folks . I was an amatuer boxer for 7 years by the way. Bullies don't frighten me.

You do realise if you attacked somebody after hitting you that your boxing history would be held against you. Self defence is equal and opposite force. So if he hits you once and you hit him harder or more than once it isn't self defence and you are liable for damages.

Avoiding an issue is not the same as running away.

Knasher · 30-04-2013 02:28PM

brokenarms wrote: »

He got no money by the way. The guy in the car was given a warning by the court.

The video description says:

I was given the choice of the driver receiving a caution or I could accept a local resolution, the terms of which that I would receive an amount in compensation and a written apology. I'm far from happy about it but reluctantly accepted the resolution.

Ush1 · 30-04-2013 03:13PM

seamus wrote: »

Exactly, it's a warning device as in, "Hey, I'm here and you're overtaking too close to me". If the cyclist had beeped when the overtake had been completed, you'd have a point. But he didn't. He beeped when the guy got too close.

Looking at the speed that the driver stopped and opened his door, it was clear that he was intentionally trying to provoke a reaction from the cyclist and decided it was "game on" when he got beeped at.

A classic scumbag.

Just watched again and he beeped when the overtake was complete.

Actually just noticed, at about 20 seconds the cyclist seems to mumble something(thick brummy accent but sounds a little like, "what are you doin") and then tut.

TwoShedsJackson · 30-04-2013 03:24PM

The van driver was an aggressive twat. The cyclist was a passive-aggressive twat.

reprazant · 30-04-2013 04:46PM

Jester252 wrote: »

The cyclist did not need to do this in the first place. Would the van driver have attacked him if he didn't blow his horn? More or likely no. The cyclist put himself in this position. All I'm pointing out was that the cyclist is not as innocent as poster are trying to claim.

Would the girl have got raped if she hadn't been wearing the short skirt? More or likely no. The girl put herself in this position. All I'm pointing out was that she is not as innocent as poster are trying to claim.:rolleyes:

A bit dramatic but that is some fantastic victim blaming there from Jester.

_sparkie_ · 30-04-2013 04:56PM

Cienciano wrote: »

The cyclists can go and pay some road tax before they start complaining

bikes dont cause anywhere near the amount of damage to roads that cars do, if everyone cycled the cost of maintaining roads would be close to zero.

hardCopy · 30-04-2013 05:48PM

_sparkie_ wrote: »

bikes dont cause anywhere near the amount of damage to roads that cars do, if everyone cycled the cost of maintaining roads would be close to zero.

Cars make their owners fat
Bikes make their owners fit

Cars damage roads
Bikes don't

Cars pollute the environment
Cyclists inhale it

Cars kill people
Bikes don't

Cars cause traffic
Bikes reduce traffic

Drivers pay motor tax
Cyclists pay motor tax - and then leave their car at home!

Basically, if you drive a car, you owe cyclists big time. STFU and get some exercise fatties. I couldn't give a single fvck if I slow you down when I'm out for a spin.

DoozerT6 · 30-04-2013 06:37PM

I haven't read the other 49 pages of this thread so sorry if this has been asked before (and it's a genuine query, not really a complaint!) but why do cyclists not use the lovely bike lanes that are provided throughout so much of the cities now? Instead they cycle on the road or bus lane when there is a perfectly good cycle lane 5 feet to their left!! I can only imagine it's because pedestrians/joggers end up in the bike lane...anybody shed any light? It can be quite annoying when you're stuck behind someone cycling slowly along, in the road, with the empty bike lane within arms reach of them.....

rubadub · 30-04-2013 06:47PM

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I can only imagine it's because pedestrians/joggers end up in the bike lane..

That is one big reason. Many joggers even go 2 abreast in the direction of traffic so are blind to bikes coming.

DoozerT6 wrote: »

the lovely bike lanes

Most are far from lovely. Most are unsuitable for racer/road bikes. I had a loan of a racer and never queried them not using it again, and this was on stretches I thought were OK, I am usually on a mountain bike or hybrid (half way between mountain bike & racer).

Since the emergence of cheap beer in bottles, you find huge amounts of glass on them too.

A lot of the cycle tracks are technically footpaths too, due to incorrect signage, and this is also why pedestrians (technically rightly) wander onto them.

As a pedestrian I use common sense and avoid them, on my bike I use them as I have been in taxis and seen & heard horrific tales of what they think of people on bikes and what they do to them, and have seen it myself on the roads, buses & trucks purposely going really close to them to "teach them a lesson".

People are no longer legally obliged to use cycletracks anymore either. In the past you could legally argue about non use of them for safety reasons, there is a section in the law about your obligation to stay safe. The most serious accident I have had on a bike was crashing into a kerb I couldn't see at night on an appallingly designed cycletrack.

Also on many roads with turnoffs, the cars tend to stick their nose out right onto the cycletrack/cycleway, while waiting to turn out. I saw an ambulance at deandgrange a few weeks ago with a guy on a bike at one spot it always happens to me at, I presume he was knocked off because of this practise.

Knasher · 30-04-2013 06:50PM

DoozerT6 wrote: »

but why do cyclists not use the lovely bike lanes that are provided throughout so much of the cities now?

If there is a lovely bike lane, then generally cyclists will use it. The not lovely ones aren't used because they are either set up in a very dangerous way, i.e. other lanes of traffic crossing a cycle lane going straight on, or are badly maintained, i.e. road debris gets swept in by passing cars and makes the bike lane hazardous.

Jester252 · 30-04-2013 07:24PM

reprazant wrote: »

Would the girl have got raped if she hadn't been wearing the short skirt? More or likely no. The girl put herself in this position. All I'm pointing out was that she is not as innocent as poster are trying to claim.:rolleyes:

A bit dramatic but that is some fantastic victim blaming there from Jester.

Strawman much :rolleyes:

What caused the incident the cyclist owning the horn or blowing the horn?

Gorilla Rising · 30-04-2013 07:35PM

hardCopy wrote: »

Cars make their owners fat
Bikes make their owners fit

Cars damage roads
Bikes don't

Cars pollute the environment
Cyclists inhale it

Cars kill people
Bikes don't

Cars cause traffic
Bikes reduce traffic

Drivers pay motor tax
Cyclists pay motor tax - and then leave their car at home!

Basically, if you drive a car, you owe cyclists big time. STFU and get some exercise fatties. I couldn't give a single fvck if I slow you down when I'm out for a spin.

Well this is pretty stupid to say the least.

People who don't cycle = fat?

I don't cycle. I hate cycling. I grew out of it when I was 12. That's just me.

I eat right and I go to the gym and I run on the beach and I love driving around in my car.

It's not always practical to cycle somewhere either.

People like you don't do other cyclists any favours at all.

Mugser · 30-04-2013 07:43PM

Cycling makes you a better driver- FACT!!!!!!!!!
Driving doesn't necesserarly make you a better cyclist.

That is all.

Gorilla Rising · 30-04-2013 07:44PM

Mugser wrote: »

Cycling makes you a better driver- FACT!!!!!!!!!
Driving doesn't necesserarly make you a better cyclist.

That is all.

Driving makes you a better driver.

Mugser · 30-04-2013 07:47PM

False 9 wrote: »

Driving makes you a better driver.

If only that were true:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Gorilla Rising · 30-04-2013 07:49PM

Mugser wrote: »

If only that were true:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It is. Sure isn't that how you pass a driving test? Rolleyes don't make it not so.

Mugser · 30-04-2013 07:56PM

False 9 wrote: »

It is. Sure isn't that how you pass a driving test? Rolleyes don't make it not so.

If all drivers would be as good at driving as they were the day they did their driving test then the roads would be a much safer place.

Cantona's Collars · 30-04-2013 08:03PM

Mugser wrote: »

If all drivers would be as good at driving as they were the day they did their driving test then the roads would be a much safer place.

And nobody would drive on motorways.

Speaking of motorways,what's the fascination for cyclists with the Gorey Bypass? They aren't meant to be on it yet regularly I see them happily cycling along the hard shoulder.

rubadub · 30-04-2013 08:06PM

Jester252 wrote: »

It was improper use of the horn and can be viewed as an act of aggression.

By very few I expect/hope. I hear loads of "illegal" beeps on my way to work, it never once crossed my mind that these people were inviting/looking for a fist fight or being aggressive.

Jester252 wrote: »

What caused the incident the cyclist owning the horn or blowing the horn?

Him getting out of bed that morning started the trouble, why not bring it back to that stage.

Jester252 wrote: »

Walk down a main street and blast a horn at people who walk pass you can you tell me that nobody would hit you?

A tad different I think. I doubt any policeman would have stopped the cyclist for his "illegal act". They would have a word if you were doing what you seem to think is comparable.

A fair analogy of this incident to me would be a bloke a pub storming by another guy, and knocking him so a bit of his pint spills. The guy goes "jesus, watch it mate", giving fair warning (like most people are doing using car horns like the cyclist did). In most cases the guy will turn and say sorry, or shrug and go on, or ingore him. The equivalent in this case is the scumbag turning around and battering the guy who he just bumped into who simply said watch it.

You are making out like beeping a horn is like the guy with spilt pint shoving him and saying "you fucking cunt, you spilt my fucking pint, lets take it outside you stupid prick"

JRant · 30-04-2013 08:07PM

Jester252 wrote: »

Strawman much :rolleyes:

What caused the incident the cyclist owning the horn or blowing the horn?

The drivers anger management issues caused the incident.

If you think attacking somebody for blowing a crappy horn and waving a hand at you is reason enough, I'm glad to say you are most certainly in a minority.

Now if the cyclist had one of these bad boys on his bike you might have a case m'lurd.

_sparkie_ · 30-04-2013 08:11PM

Just thinking about bad cyclists and I just remembered something from about two weeks ago. I am a cyclist and was going into town one morning a little while back. I was turning left onto Parnell square from Dorset street and I heard someone screaming 'you ****ing asshole' at the top of their lungs and screaming. I thought someone had been knocked down and when I looked back I saw this guy in a suit racing through the junction towards me.

There was a bus pulling out of the stop as the guy was passing me, it was nowhere near him, I was still between him and the bus and he lets loose again. Screaming at the top of his lungs and flipping off the bus driver who didnt know what was going on. The guy then went down onto O'Connell street and broke two sets of lights.

I dont know if he was just having a bad morning or has a death wish but if you know the person I'm talking about ask them to calm down on the road. It's only a matter of time before they really injure themselves or someone else.

Cyclists, rules of the road, a bit of cop on!

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