2013 NFL DRAFT

frostie500 · 29-04-2013 08:27PM

SantryRed wrote: »

Could have got Tavon Austin and then got EJ Manuel in the 2nd round. Would have been much better off that way if they think Manuel is their guy.

If they think Manuel is their guy then they have to pull the trigger on him in the first round otherwise they'd risk losing himt. I agree that it's highly unlikely that Manuel wouldn't have been available at pick 40 for the Bills but could you imagine how they would have felt if the Jets had taken him at 39 instead of Geno Smith and they were left to pick someone else, maybe Nassib, that they didnt rate as highly

HigginsJ · 29-04-2013 08:47PM

frostie500 wrote: »

If they think Manuel is their guy then they have to pull the trigger on him in the first round otherwise they'd risk losing himt. I agree that it's highly unlikely that Manuel wouldn't have been available at pick 40 for the Bills but could you imagine how they would have felt if the Jets had taken him at 39 instead of Geno Smith and they were left to pick someone else, maybe Nassib, that they didnt rate as highly

I think it's highly unlikely Manuel would have been there at 40 as the Eagles were reportedly a big fan of him

deise_boi · 30-04-2013 12:58AM

SantryRed wrote: »

Could have got Tavon Austin and then got EJ Manuel in the 2nd round. Would have been much better off that way if they think Manuel is their guy.

That's possibly true, but we'll never know if another team in the top of the 2nd round would've taken him before the Bills went on the clock again. They wanted their man, worked a trade to make it less reach/more value. Just look at the Jake Locker (no.8) and Gabbert (no.10) picks... I think it ranks as better value than those two because of the extra picks (so far obviously). The addition of Woods in the 2nd along with Da'Rick Rogers as a UDFA makes me feel a bit better about passing on Austin also.

davyjose · 30-04-2013 07:19AM

deise_boi wrote: »

Nice post Paully, but I really have to take you up on this :pac: Maybe it's because I'm wearing my Bills hat, but I think its a bit premature to be labelling the Manuel pick as a monstrosity! I'm impressed by how they approached the situation - they needed to trade down and gain extra picks, which they did. they then had their pick of the QBs left in play, and took their guy. Job done. Plan executed. Along with that they were able to deny a quality WR prospect in Tavon Austin from going to the Jets and haunting us for years to come :P

As for Manuel, I'm not sure if he'll be the next JP Losman or the next Jim Kelly for us, but what I do know is that Nix, Marrone & Hackett handpicked the biggest, most athletic and arguably strongest-armed QB in this years class. His quick release should allow him to execute the new WCO at a very high level, while his legs will allow for the threat of the read option (until that eventually gets figured out). He's definitely not without his faults, but obviously few QBs coming out are. He's not as pro-ready as the others, was inconsistent across games and his mechanics are a bit off, but he should be able to sit behind Kolb/Jackson if the coaches feel he needs time to develop. Though I'd rather they didn't throw him to the wolves straight away, if he does similar to Wilson in camp last year then I have faith that he can take over the offense - he's a leader.

I just think it's refreshing that the front office identified their man, stuck to their plan and pulled the trigger before any others could (I believe that the Eagles were very high on him). It's just a little bit OTT to say the pick was so horrific they were able to add much needed picks and still get their target. Time will tell I suppose!

You guys could have waited til the 3rd round though. Made absolutely no sense to drop your number 1 pick on a guy who isn't even NFL ready.

taidghbaby · 30-04-2013 08:57AM

Whilst I don't agree with the Manuel pick there was a lot of talk that the eagles were going to trade back into the 1st round (likely with the Colts) to get him, so the Bills probably didn't think they'd be able to get him!

The 49ers successfully transitioned from Smith to Kapernick so the Bills may be looking to do the same from Kolb to Manuel if EJ doesn't win the starters battle straight away!

deise_boi · 30-04-2013 08:59AM

davyjose wrote: »

You guys could have waited til the 3rd round though. Made absolutely no sense to drop your number 1 pick on a guy who isn't even NFL ready.

Like others have said, Manuel was high on a couple of teams boards. It's likely Kelly could've been tempted to nab him in the 2nd, or even he could've been on his way to the Jets instead of Geno. Hindsight is wonderful and all that - I certainly didn't forsee the likes of Barkley & Nassib slipping down to day three. People would've thought it ridiculous at the time to select someone like Kaepernick or Russell Wilson (both of whom we passed on in lower rounds) in the first round because they were perceived to not be NFL ready. But as we have seen, certain players can surprise.

I'm not saying that Manuel is going to do the same thing and light up the league anytime soon, but the front office picked their guy and have experienced QBs on the depth chart which hopefully can allow Manuel to concentrate on his game should they feel he's not ready. It's certainly refreshing to see the franchise taking risks, even if it's boom or bust. 13 years without a postseason appearance requires a certain amount of it.

Dohnny Jepp · 30-04-2013 09:15AM

Wilson was never seen to not be nfl ready, he was simply seen as too small.

Barney92 · 30-04-2013 09:18AM

The point is though if someone had taken Wilson in the first round last year there probably would've been people saying it was ridiculous to take someone that high. Yet he has proven that he would've been worth a first round pick, at least in the year he has been playing. Going back to Manuel, if the Bills think he is good enough to be their guy going forward I have no problem with them picking him, especially with the possibility of not being able to get him in the 2nd.

frostie500 · 30-04-2013 09:33AM

I've moved all of the Tebow discussion into the general banter thread so that we can keep this as a draft thread and not have it Tebow-jacked

LuckyLloyd · 30-04-2013 10:05AM

Barney92 wrote: »

The point is though if someone had taken Wilson in the first round last year there probably would've been people saying it was ridiculous to take someone that high. Yet he has proven that he would've been worth a first round pick, at least in the year he has been playing. Going back to Manuel, if the Bills think he is good enough to be their guy going forward I have no problem with them picking him, especially with the possibility of not being able to get him in the 2nd.

They could definitely have got him the second. They could definitely have traded the pick and moved down towards the bottom of the first round. Taking him where they took him was flat out dumb. A waste of a pick.

Teams that make such mistakes are prone to making poor FA and contract decisions; hire poor coaches, etc...like the ****ing Buffalo Bills.

Chucky the tree · 30-04-2013 10:08AM

Taking Wilson in the first round last year would have been ridiculous considering he could have been gotten in the second and third round(some of it anyway). Teams that reach for players generally aren't good teams or good at drafting.

LuckyLloyd · 30-04-2013 10:20AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Taking Wilson in the first round last year would have been ridiculous considering he could have been gotten in the second and third round(some of it anyway). Teams that reach for players generally aren't good teams or good at drafting.

It's the hilarious aspect of the NFL. Every team has the same opportunities in terms of investment in players and draft picks. It's a level playing field, and yet some teams are consistently competitive and some teams consistently suck.

And people don't link drafting EJ Manual there with sucking, when it is absolutely the reason why. The Patriots, Ravens and Steelers never use that pick that way even if EJ was atop their big board.

Just a mindless pick.

deise_boi · 30-04-2013 10:50AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They could definitely have got him the second. They could definitely have traded the pick and moved down towards the bottom of the first round. Taking him where they took him was flat out dumb. A waste of a pick.

Buddy Nix was quick to say afterwards that they had been in talks to move down further in the first but they felt there was a chance one of the teams high in the second would have traded up

SantryRed · 30-04-2013 02:04PM

deise_boi wrote: »

Buddy Nix was quick to say afterwards that they had been in talks to move down further in the first but they felt there was a chance one of the teams high in the second would have traded up

Eh they could have traded up themselves too if they really thought that. It's a waste of their top 10 pick of this years draft talent.

adrian522 · 30-04-2013 02:07PM

Why not take Tavon Austin at 8 and then trade up to the end of the first round with SF or NE or whoever and grab Manuel there?

LuckyLloyd · 30-04-2013 02:20PM

adrian522 wrote: »

Why not take Tavon Austin at 8 and then trade up to the end of the first round with SF or NE or whoever and grab Manuel there?

Because if you're a franchise taking such a logical approach to things you aren't the Buffalo Bills.

Barney92 · 30-04-2013 02:56PM

The offers to trade down again may not have been worth the risk of someone else taking him. Whilst they could've taken Austin and then traded up later on, they would've lost out on some picks to do so. In doing trading down however they were able to get a few more picks, used on players who should be solid. Austin is no guarantee to be successful, so I agree with them trading down instead of taking him. The value in a trade down exceed his for me at least. Also by taking Austin they would run the risk of having to overpay to get back into the first, looking at what the Vikings gave up to trade with the Pats. I'm not saying he was a great pick, but that the move is understandable, especially if they think he is going to start for them. If he becomes the starter they hope he will it was an excellent move because they picked him up and a few extra picks along the way.

Red Crow · 30-04-2013 03:41PM

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

Wilson was never seen to not be nfl ready, he was simply seen as too small.

There was concerns about his passing ability too. You don't slip down just due to height alone. If he was ok at college level and didn't have a big issue with height then it's hardly going to completely inhibit him in the NFL. Also he had the biggest OLine in front of him in the NCAA.

The fact is that Wilson was seen by many to be a back-up at best in the NFL and Mayock said that on numerous occasions.

Syferus · 30-04-2013 03:43PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

There was concerns about his passing ability too. You don't slip down just due to height alone. If he was ok at college level and didn't have a big issue with height then it's hardly going to completely inhibit him in the NFL. Also he had the biggest OLine in front of him in the NCAA.

The fact is that Wilson was seen by many to be a back-up at best in the NFL and Mayock said that on numerous occasions.

I can't recall the overwhelming number of times I heard draft analysts say Wilson would 'be a first rounder if he was three inches taller' before last year's draft.

eagle eye · 30-04-2013 03:48PM

Eli Manning wrote: »

There was concerns about his passing ability too. You don't slip down just due to height alone. If he was ok at college level and didn't have a big issue with height then it's hardly going to completely inhibit him in the NFL. Also he had the biggest OLine in front of him in the NCAA.

The fact is that Wilson was seen by many to be a back-up at best in the NFL and Mayock said that on numerous occasions.

Its completely different at the NFL level. The average height of a lineman is way taller and it was his height alone that knocked him back. Drew Brees is the freak of nature who has shown you can do it but even he is an inch taller than Wilson. The only other starting QB in recent times at 6' is Michael Vick but he is a different type of QB with his running ability.

Most teams don't want to know about a QB if he is under 6'3" tall.

Red Crow · 30-04-2013 03:58PM

Syferus wrote: »

I can't recall the overwhelming number of times I heard draft analysts say Wilson would 'be a first rounder if he was three inches taller' before last year's draft.

They say that about a lot of guys.

eagle eye wrote: »

Its completely different at the NFL level. The average height of a lineman is way taller and it was his height alone that knocked him back. Drew Brees is the freak of nature who has shown you can do it but even he is an inch taller than Wilson. The only other starting QB in recent times at 6' is Michael Vick but he is a different type of QB with his running ability.

Most teams don't want to know about a QB if he is under 6'3" tall.

Average height of starting NFL linemen - 6'4
Average height of Wisconsin linemen when Wilson was there - 6'4

matthew8 · 30-04-2013 05:02PM

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss taking Manuel at 16. It's hard to know how far a player will fall from our perspective. Sharrif Floyd was mocked often at 3, he went, what, 23? Meanwhile the Raiders were ready to draft DJ Hayden at 3 if they couldn't move down. I just think the media and the teams, this year more than others, had very widely differing views on the players.

deise_boi · 30-04-2013 05:36PM

SantryRed wrote: »

Eh they could have traded up themselves too if they really thought that. It's a waste of their top 10 pick of this years draft talent.

They were always going to trade out of the top 10 this year. They only had 6 picks going into the draft so they needed to get a few more from a trade back. Nix admitted that they took calls about trading down further from 16 but thought there may be a chance another team would've traded up ahead of them. There's no way the Bills trade up from the 2nd having already moved down twice - that'd be comical. I wouldn't agree with calling it a waste of a pick, it's just far to early to be calling it that. We've zero idea of how he'll do in a system which none of us have even seen implemented in Buffalo yet.

Bare in mind the draft heads ranked Manuel everywhere from a first to a fourth rounder, so it really could be turn out to be either a genius move to seal Nix's Buffalo legacy, or a massive backfire to add to his previous misjudgements (Fitzpatrick/Gailey) . It'll be fun to watch nonetheless

UnitedIrishman · 30-04-2013 06:28PM

This looks like a perfect fit for the Jets!

Four days after Geno Smith slid out of the first round of the draft, the former West Virginia quarterback fired his agents due to his displeasure over his draft position, Manish Mehta of the New York Daily News reports citing sources.

The Daily News has learned that Smith thought that he would and should be the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. Sources told the News that Smith’s agents from Select Sports Group gave him no assurance of his draft position.

The Jets drafted Smith, who was atop Gang Green’s quarterback rankings, with the eighth pick in the second round (39th overall), which didn’t sit well with him. Smith can’t hire another agent for five days.

Despite Smith’s draft position, new general manager John Idzik made it clear that he still believes the rookie will be under the microscope.

“If you’re a first-round quarterback—first-round any position – the spotlight is a little bit brighter,” Idzik said on ESPN radio’s Mike & Mike show on Tuesday morning. “Him coming in as a second rounder, perhaps it’s a little dim, but being that he’s in the New York market, he’s at a high profile position, I think he’s going to be center stage regardless.”

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/34719/Report--Geno-Smith-fires-agent-after-draft-fall/Default.aspx

Son Of A Vidic · 30-04-2013 07:26PM

So he thought he would and should have been the No.1 overall pick? Well it looks like he's going to be eating a lot of humble pie in his career then.

Paully D · 30-04-2013 08:05PM

It looks like Geno just can't take criticism or negatives. From the constant whinging about any fair negative opinion that people had about his abilities, to the strop with him about to take off for home after round 1 in the draft only to have a last minute change of mind (when he was presumably told he wouldn't get past the Jets in round 2), to now sacking his agents because he believes he should have been the #1 pick.

He won't have a very long career in the NFL if he doesn't change those characteristics, especially playing for probably the most scrutinised franchise by the media in the league. I'll give it 5 starts before his pictured having a sulk on the sideline.

He needs to mature and start showing strength against adversity very, very quickly.

Chucky the tree · 30-04-2013 08:24PM

Starting to remind me a lot of Vince Young in terms of attitude.

HigginsJ · 30-04-2013 09:42PM

Find the criticism of Geno bit harsh. He was hardly going to come out n say, yea the draft was right, I'm only the 40th best player available this year.

He has confidence in his ability and believes he is a top player. As for firing his agents after the draft. I'm sure when thy signed him up they made certain guarantees and promises regarding the draft which weren't fulfilled.

It's less than a week since the draft. At least give him a chance to get to mini camps before presuming what he'll be like as a pro.

Chucky the tree · 30-04-2013 10:01PM

HigginsJ wrote: »

Find the criticism of Geno bit harsh. He was hardly going to come out n say, yea the draft was right, I'm only the 40th best player available this year.

He has confidence in his ability and believes he is a top player. As for firing his agents after the draft. I'm sure when thy signed him up they made certain guarantees and promises regarding the draft which weren't fulfilled.

It's less than a week since the draft. At least give him a chance to get to mini camps before presuming what he'll be like as a pro.

His agent can't draft him - they can't make any guarantee or promises. Smith should have the cop on to understand this. No need to stay he was drafted right either, but just don't act like a spoilt child because you weren't picked first.

kingcobra · 30-04-2013 10:15PM

To be fair, I'd say it was an extremely humiliating period for Geno in the Green Room and he's obviously reeling from that. It isn't a nice situation to be in especially considering the New York media are jumping all over him now.
Either way, the story doesn't reflect well on him and I'd say he's already found himself disliked by a few people already. It'll be a steep learning curve for him over the next couple of years for sure!

2013 NFL DRAFT

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