Unpopular Opinions.

OldNotWIse · 24-04-2013 12:03PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Agree with the overfeminism. Equal rights for ALL, men, women, different race, different sexuality, etc. That should go without saying, but you see some of the shíte some "feminazi's" as they are referred to by many go on with. Saying all men are X,Y and Z because the men of time gone by were á*holes. This just in, some men will always be a*holes, same with women. The past is over, the men of today can only learn from the mistakes of times gone.

Some mothers are terrible mothers and in many cases children would be better off with their father or another relative. Giving birth does not give you a legal right to own your child. Congrats, you pushed out a child, you completed the most basic biological process after breathing, eating and ridding the body of waste!

I can't stand women who take the píss with maternity leave and parental leave. I agree both should exist, but there are some who really take the píss out of it. I know a woman she takes paid parental leave every summer, so her company have to pay her and pay someone else to do her job, the likes of her are the reason companies are terrified to hire child bearing aged women.

And men should get flexi-hours and parental leave too. What's good enough for the goose and all that.

Agree, always thought it was sh1t that men only get a couple of days or something?

wolfpawnat · 24-04-2013 12:05PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Agree, always thought it was sh1t that men only get a couple of days or something?

They get around two hospital visits (usually the scan), one or two of the ante-natal classes and the birth. Everything else is at the discretion of the employer. It's as much his child as hers!

kunst nugget · 24-04-2013 12:12PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Agree with the overfeminism. Equal rights for ALL, men, women, different race, different sexuality, etc. That should go without saying, but you see some of the shíte some "feminazi's" as they are referred to by many go on with. Saying all men are X,Y and Z because the men of time gone by were á*holes. This just in, some men will always be a*holes, same with women. The past is over, the men of today can only learn from the mistakes of times gone.

Some mothers are terrible mothers and in many cases children would be better off with their father or another relative. Giving birth does not give you a legal right to own your child. Congrats, you pushed out a child, you completed the most basic biological process after breathing, eating and ridding the body of waste!

I can't stand women who take the píss with maternity leave and parental leave. I agree both should exist, but there are some who really take the píss out of it. I know a woman she takes paid parental leave every summer, so her company have to pay her and pay someone else to do her job, the likes of her are the reason companies are terrified to hire child bearing aged women.

And men should get flexi-hours and parental leave too. What's good enough for the goose and all that.

Men can take parental leave too. Few choose to.

Madam_X · 24-04-2013 12:16PM

Of course men should get paternity leave and flexi-time and far better parental rights. Nothing controversial there. Love the way the lack of these gets blamed on feminism. As if feminists want women to be doing all the childminding. A lot of the perks women enjoy due to their gender actually have their roots in traditional notions of women being the weaker, more vulnerable sex, and more in need of protection. Chivalrous kinda stuff - yet if women blast that, they're also deemed militant feminists. Can't win.

LeinsterDub · 24-04-2013 12:16PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Men can take parental leave too. Few choose to.

Paid parental leave?

krudler · 24-04-2013 12:18PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Men can take parental leave too. Few choose to.

Nowhere near as much paid time as women get though, think its two weeks in our place must check

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-04-2013 12:23PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

ahahahahaaaaaa Seriously??

We should subject all our children to 14 pointless years of Irish because a few Irish Language nazis think one or two might enjoy it?? :D

No, I said "optional". Ideally at the onset of secondary school.

kunst nugget · 24-04-2013 12:24PM

krudler wrote: »

Nowhere near as much paid time as women get though, think its two weeks in our place must check

Parental leave is unpaid for both men and women (18 weeks from March of this year, I think). Maternity leave and benefit is a different thing altogether. Men aren't entitled to any paternity leave iirc.

Madam_X · 24-04-2013 12:27PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No, I said "optional". Ideally at the onset of secondary school.

She knew exactly what you said - just pretended not to, in order to be sneering for no reason.

Never explain yourself to someone who resorts to trolling.

PopePalpatine · 24-04-2013 12:40PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Good idea. Let's produce legislation that says no woman should be employed until they produce a menopause certificate.

Would it take 6 doctors to certify that? :rolleyes:

Links234 · 24-04-2013 12:41PM

Galway K9 wrote: »

cheaper car insurance, default custody of children without court, more parental rights unless men fight it in court 5 times harder.

you know the whole practice of placing kids with the mother by default predates feminism? it's actually got nothing to do with feminist influence and everything to do with archiac gender roles, a throwback to a more patriarchal society that said a woman's role was rearing children and a man's role was out being the breadwinner. throw in catholic influence in this country, or constitution, ridiculous divorce laws, and you have the situation we currently have with father's rights to their children.

my unpopular opinion?

you guys need to stop blaming feminist bogey-women

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-04-2013 12:50PM

Links234 wrote: »

you know the whole practice of placing kids with the mother by default predates feminism? it's actually got nothing to do with feminist influence and everything to do with archiac gender roles, a throwback to a more patriarchal society that said a woman's role was rearing children and a man's role was out being the breadwinner. throw in catholic influence in this country, or constitution, ridiculous divorce laws, and you have the situation we currently have with father's rights to their children.

my unpopular opinion?

you guys need to stop blaming feminist bogey-women

So... can we then use this excsue to say that it's acceptable to say that a woman's place should be in the kitchen and not the boardroom? I mean, it's got everything to do with all the factors you list above and nothing to do with the bogey-man...

Links234 · 24-04-2013 12:55PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So... can we then use this excsue to say that it's acceptable to say that a woman's place should be in the kitchen and not the boardroom? I mean, it's got everything to do with all the factors you list above and nothing to do with the bogey-man...

I'm not sure I understand your question?

yes it's the same archiac gender role bollocks that says a woman's place is in the kitchen that says a man can't possibly look after children, etc.

ScumLord · 24-04-2013 12:56PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

So... can we then use this excsue to say that it's acceptable to say that a woman's place should be in the kitchen and not the boardroom? I mean, it's got everything to do with all the factors you list above and nothing to do with the bogey-man...

I think child rearing can be separated from house work. To highlight how important the role of the woman was in ancient societies you can look to the spartans. If a woman died giving birth she was given the same honors as a man that died on the battlefield. Both died in service to their state, both roles were vital to the community. While in older culture women had a role it was a vital role that was appreciated.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 24-04-2013 01:03PM

Links234 wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand your question?

yes it's the same archiac gender role bollocks that says a woman's place is in the kitchen that says a man can't possibly look after children, etc.

Fair enough, it came acoss as you actually agreeing with the superiority role, which I may have misunderstood. Apologies

Links234 · 24-04-2013 01:06PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Fair enough, it came acoss as you actually agreeing with the superiority role, which I may have misunderstood. Apologies

oh, no. absolutely not.

OldNotWIse · 24-04-2013 01:49PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

No, I said "optional". Ideally at the onset of secondary school.

Yeah I suppose you couldnt fault that. Sorry didnt realise you meant optional. At least that way it would be more quality learning, smaller groups, everyone wants to actually be there etc.

and the rest woudl be spare 14 years of learning just like...the ends of words

wolfpawnat · 24-04-2013 02:38PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Men can take parental leave too. Few choose to.

They are often overlooked in favour of women though, and seldom get as long off. It is not as acceptable for them to do so.

Madam_X wrote: »

Of course men should get paternity leave and flexi-time and far better parental rights. Nothing controversial there. Love the way the lack of these gets blamed on feminism. As if feminists want women to be doing all the childminding. A lot of the perks women enjoy due to their gender actually have their roots in traditional notions of women being the weaker, more vulnerable sex, and more in need of protection. Chivalrous kinda stuff - yet if women blast that, they're also deemed militant feminists. Can't win.

I would not blame feminism in any way for that, that is an issue with employment law more than anything.

kunst nugget · 24-04-2013 02:44PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

They are often overlooked in favour of women though, and seldom get as long off. It is not as acceptable for them to do so.

Men choose not to in the main but they are entitled to the same unpaid parental leave as women. That is the law. It's nothing to do with being overlooked in favour of women.

Both parents have an equal separate entitlement to parental leave.

Source: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/parental_leave.html

VinLieger · 24-04-2013 02:47PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

They are often overlooked in favour of women though, and seldom get as long off. It is not as acceptable for them to do so.

I would not blame feminism in any way for that, that is an issue with employment law more than anything.

I would blame certain forms of feminism for spreading the idea that men have no need to campaign for rights as they already have everything they need. Yes this is probably limited to radical feminism but its still a problem. For instance the impression among men i talk to is they are afraid to start such a campaign for fear of being laughed at and/or the possibility of very vocal and violent feminist opposition, which has been the case in america where mens rights meetings are regularly picketed by radical feminists

wolfpawnat · 24-04-2013 02:51PM

VinLieger wrote: »

I would blame certain forms of feminism for spreading the idea that men have no need to campaign for rights as they already have everything they need. Yes this is probably limited to radical feminism but its still a problem. For instance the impression among men i talk to is they are afraid to start such a campaign for fear of being laughed at and/or the possibility of very vocal and violent feminist opposition, which has been the case in america where mens rights meetings are regularly picketed by radical feminists

I find the father's rights campaigns are often belittled by media and women. I remember liking the page for it on FB and several people PM'd me saying as a woman and a mother I shouldn't like those pages as it takes rights from a mother and father's are X, Y and Z!!! But as you stated, these are the extremists and would not be the general consensus.

Galwayguy35 · 24-04-2013 03:06PM

Links234 wrote: »

you know the whole practice of placing kids with the mother by default predates feminism? it's actually got nothing to do with feminist influence and everything to do with archiac gender roles, a throwback to a more patriarchal society that said a woman's role was rearing children and a man's role was out being the breadwinner. throw in catholic influence in this country, or constitution, ridiculous divorce laws, and you have the situation we currently have with father's rights to their children.

my unpopular opinion?

you guys need to stop blaming feminist bogey-women

You dont see many women saying that the law needs to be changed though, as for many of them its suits not to.

Links234 · 24-04-2013 03:23PM

VinLieger wrote: »

which has been the case in america where mens rights meetings are regularly picketed by radical feminists

another unpopular opinion, the men's rights movement ain't all tits and rainbows, a lot of the more outspoken men's rights advocates are just as awful as the radical feminists they decry. there's extremists on both sides.

ever see the kind of **** Paul Elam advocates? in his own words: “Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.”

I think father's rights is a serious issue, but you know what? if someone like that came to speak here in Ireland, I'd protest them too.

Paddy Cow · 24-04-2013 03:24PM

VinLieger wrote: »

As posted above more rights as an unmarried parent, feminists groups are currently campaigning for lighter sentencing for women, then add in all this quota stuff for politicians and boardrooms.

Having quotas is a joke. Some profession attract a higher percentage of either sex. Will they be campaigning to have a quota for women on building sites? It's ridiculous and if I was going for a job in a boardroom, I would find it demeaning to learn that I only got the job because I have a vagina and not because I am the best person for it.

kunst nugget wrote: »

Good idea. Let's produce legislation that says no woman should be employed until they produce a menopause certificate.

But sure you couldn't trust menopausal women either. They'd be too weepy from their raging hormones and hot flushes to get the job done

VinLieger · 24-04-2013 03:31PM

Links234 wrote: »

another unpopular opinion, the men's rights movement ain't all tits and rainbows, a lot of the more outspoken men's rights advocates are just as awful as the radical feminists they decry. there's extremists on both sides.

ever see the kind of **** Paul Elam advocates? in his own words: “Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.”

I think father's rights is a serious issue, but you know what? if someone like that came to speak here in Ireland, I'd protest them too.

Maybe read the thread title?

Also did i say there werent bad seeds? No of course there are and yes those people who say women bring it on themselves etc disgust me and give not just mens rights a bad name but men everywhere

wolfpawnat · 24-04-2013 03:31PM

Links234 wrote: »

another unpopular opinion, the men's rights movement ain't all tits and rainbows, a lot of the more outspoken men's rights advocates are just as awful as the radical feminists they decry. there's extremists on both sides.

ever see the kind of **** Paul Elam advocates? in his own words: “Should I be called to sit on a jury for a rape trial, I vow publicly to vote not guilty, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the charges are true.”

I think father's rights is a serious issue, but you know what? if someone like that came to speak here in Ireland, I'd protest them too.

I think even those he would be protesting for would protest him to be fair

Every argument has its for and against groups and all of those groups will ALWAYS have absolute nutjob extremists that do their cause more harm than good.

Links234 · 24-04-2013 03:32PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You dont see many women saying that the law needs to be changed though, as for many of them its suits not to.

http://www.thejournal.ie/girl-power-irish-feminist-conference-sold-out-455748-May2012/

and pretty much any feminist I know shares this view too, just listen to what actual feminists have to say, instead of the 'radical' element.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-04-2013 03:39PM

Links234 wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand your question?

yes it's the same archiac gender role bollocks that says a woman's place is in the kitchen that says a man can't possibly look after children, etc.

Do you think gender roles have anything to do with the natural order in the animal kingdom, where the female in a lot cases has total responsibility for care of the young?

kunst nugget · 24-04-2013 03:40PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Every argument has its for and against groups and all of those groups will ALWAYS have absolute nutjob extremists that do their cause more harm than good.

Yet these groups (particularly feminists it would seem) are presented as homogenous lumps of ideology. Most mainstream feminism would concentrate on equality for both sexes but a lot of people seem to ignore that.

wolfpawnat · 24-04-2013 03:44PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Yet these groups (particularly feminists it would seem) are presented as homogenous lumps of ideology. Most mainstream feminism would concentrate on equality for both sexes but a lot of people seem to ignore that.

I agree. When women fight for equal pay and chance of promotion, the maternity leave card is pulled out immediately. That is unjust.

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