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High Court ruling helps put beggars back on our streets

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Comments

  • #62
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    Nobody can state with 100% certainty that every person from Romania, begging on the streets of Ireland is a Roma gypsy any more than they can state with the same certainty that every beggar on the streets of Ireland is genuinely homeless. Speaking English even at a basic level should be compulsory for anyone coming to live here, regardless of whether or not they intend only to work with people who speak their own language.

    That really is a silly statement. If that's your belief, then we would have a much harder time emigrating.


  • #63
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    bhamsteve wrote: »
    So you'd suspend the constitution, remove the tripartite division of power that has served the country well and form a police state? Because of beggars?

    Excuse me, what? LOL!!!


  • #64
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Esmeralda Gigantic Leak wrote: »
    That really is a silly statement. If that's your belief, then we would have a much harder time emigrating.
    That is my opinion, feel free to agree or disagree, I'm not asking you to do either.


  • #65
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Esmeralda Gigantic Leak wrote: »
    That really is a silly statement. If that's your belief, then we would have a much harder time emigrating.

    Irish people generally tend to emigrate to English speaking countries, no?

    Apart from the flutes that migrate or retire to the south of Spain - it wouldnt really effect future emigrants.


  • #66
    crockholm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭crockholm


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Irish people generally tend to emigrate to English speaking countries, no?

    Apart from the flutes that migrate or retire to the south of Spain - it wouldnt really effect future emigrants.
    Hej kompis! Hur mår du i kväll:P:D


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  • #67
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    crockholm wrote: »
    Hej kompis! Hur mår du i kväll:P:D

    To google translate, I go.


  • #68
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    the groutch wrote: »
    the problem is the laxity of deportation laws, thanks to Brussells.

    That didnt stop the French from chucking them out. As the rest of Europe is clamping down on roma beggars - Ireland does the opposite.

    What a country.


  • #69
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,056 ✭✭✭✭SeanW


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    I'll probably be savaged for this comment but here goes anyway, I don't believe that anyone who cannot speak fluent English should be allowed to immigrate to this country. Anyone wanting to move here should be willing to work to earn a living.
    I think I can sum up the views of the multicultural left.
    Leftist bonehead wrote:
    OMG you horrible right wing reactionary populist. RACIST!!! We should allow every jihadist, beggar, tramp and thief possible into our country and not be concerned by anything they do until they get their hands on nuclear aircraft carriers.

    Anything else is racist.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • #70
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Irish people generally tend to emigrate to English speaking countries, no?

    Apart from the flutes that migrate or retire to the south of Spain - it wouldnt really effect future emigrants.

    Wouldn't it? What about those who don't emigrate to English speaking countries?
    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    That is my opinion, feel free to agree or disagree, I'm not asking you to do either.

    Your opinion... it's wrong.


  • #71
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    SeanW wrote: »
    I think I can sum up the views of the multicultural left.

    Originally Posted by Leftist bonehead
    OMG you horrible right wing reactionary populist. RACIST!!! We should allow every jihadist, beggar, tramp and thief possible into our country and not be concerned by anything they do until they get their hands on nuclear aircraft carriers.

    Anything else is racist.

    I usually don't do this but...

    :rolleyes:


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  • #72
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Esmeralda Gigantic Leak wrote: »
    Wouldn't it? What about those who don't emigrate to English speaking countries? .

    What other countries do is their business. Emigrating to a country without having a lick of the lingo is less than ideal imo. I wouldnt expect newcomers to be able to quote Joyce or Yeats - just be reasonably competent in the language. People are being made citizens of this country without having a word of English or Irish ffs - there is no exam.

    Look at all the brits and paddies over in the south of Spain - no interest in integration or learning the language. They have turned parts of it into Dublin or Birmingham in the sun.


  • #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Damien360 wrote: »
    I am not sure where you live but in Dublin they are very aggressive. I have been followed for 20m with them in my face. you have to get very verbally agressive to get rid of them. Not nice if you are with your family.

    I had one stand in front of me and then kicked me in the back of the leg when I moved around him. Not too long after that, another one called me a prick.


  • #74
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Karsini wrote: »
    I had one stand in front of me and then kicked me in the back of the leg when I moved around him. Not too long after that, another one called me a prick.

    Ive never seen them get violent. Why the hell did he kick you? In broad daylight in the city centre?

    Mad.


  • #75
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    What other countries do is their business. Emigrating to a country without having a lick of the lingo is less than ideal imo. I wouldnt expect newcomers to be able to quote Joyce or Yeats - just be reasonably competent in the language. People are being made citizens of this country without having a word of English or Irish ffs - there is no exam.

    While I can see having an English requirement for citizenship (and many countries waive the native language competency requirement for older people), why do you think it is so necessary that people have the language before they arrive? Most people who arrive and work will learn enough to do the basics after a few months. Plus the job options are very limited for immigrants who don't speak the native language, so there is a HUGE economic incentive to learn it as quickly as possible. The ones who don't bother are usually the ones who plan on working for a few years and then going home - and even still, they will pick up the basics.
    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Look at all the brits and paddies over in the south of Spain - no interest in integration or learning the language. They have turned parts of it into Dublin or Birmingham in the sun.

    Again, why does this matter? As long as they aren't causing problems and are contributing to the economy, who cares?

    Personally, I thought it was a little bizarre when I went to Mallorca and inadvertently ended up in a German enclave, and several shopkeepers grumbled about people not bothering to learn Spanish, but for the most part, people just get on with it. Plus regional cultures are so strong in Spain, pockets of foreigners here and there are not going to upend things completely. Interestingly, the one area that some expats have tried to challenge local culture is in politics: in the last decade, British and German expats have been getting involved in local politics in some areas, in part to attempt to curb endemic corruption and overbuilding.


  • #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Ive never seen them get violent. Why the hell did he kick you? In broad daylight in the city centre?

    Mad.

    Nah, not broad daylight. It was about 9pm and I was walking across O'Connell Bridge after getting off a 40 to grab another bus on Eden Quay. He tried to block my path by standing in front of me but I just walked around him. Next thing I got kicked, looked behind me and it was him. I just carried on because I figured one of us would have ended up in the Liffey if I had retaliated.


  • #77
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    Karsini wrote: »
    Nah, not broad daylight. It was about 9pm and I was walking across O'Connell Bridge after getting off a 40 to grab another bus on Eden Quay. He tried to block my path by standing in front of me but I just walked around him. Next thing I got kicked, looked behind me and it was him. I just carried on because I figured one of us would have ended up in the Liffey if I had retaliated.

    Ive seen them getting into peoples faces begging alright. Never seen them get physically violent though.

    You probably took the best course of action. Imagine getting arrested for fighting with a gypsy on O'Connell bridge. :p


  • #78
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    southsiderosie wrote: »

    Personally, I thought it was a little bizarre when I went to Mallorca and inadvertently ended up in a German enclave, and several shopkeepers grumbled about people not bothering to learn Spanish, but for the most part, people just get on with it. Plus regional cultures are so strong in Spain, pockets of foreigners here and there are not going to upend things completely. Interestingly, the one area that some expats have tried to challenge local culture is in politics: in the last decade, British and German expats have been getting involved in local politics in some areas, in part to attempt to curb endemic corruption and overbuilding.

    First off, I think it important to be able to speak the language of the country you want to become a citizen of. As to why its important for newcomers to have basic English - it stops them falling through the cracks and gives them a good chance of integrating. There was a newspaper story about two lads who were sleeping rough in Ennis public toilets. These lads had barely a word of English. As sad and all as their case is, they really should be given a few bob and a flight home. During the boomtimes a lad could come here without the language and find work - but not anymore. And just like the Irish who went to London, fell on hard times, became homeless - these lads will remain due to a sense of not wanting to look a failure to their families at home.

    Ive never been to mallorca, so cant comment on there. But in Malaga, the locals absolutely despise the brits and paddies. They have completely transformed the coastal areas and not for the better. Paddy bars, fish and chip shops everywhere. Little or no integration. The need for all documentation to be in English. Also, a lot of serious criminals go over there to lay low. I was in benalmadena in spring 2006. I was hanging out in their equivalent of temple bar. There were a group of dublin knick knaks at the bar. They overhear my accent and ask me what part of Dublin iam from. Get talking to them and they tell me they are on the run and as another crew opened fire on the car they were in, on the m50.

    Yeah right, says I but I play along with them. I go home a few days later, bought the herald in the arrivals hall - your mans ma was on the front page. Telling the reporter that her son had fled to Spain to be with his uncle.

    Some serious Irish and British scum over there. EU citizens are allowed spend ninety days in Spain, but after that, they have to provide evidence of their employment in Spain, that they are studying or that they are financially able to support themselves. If you cant - you are out.


  • #79
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    First off, I think it important to be able to speak the language of the country you want to become a citizen of. As to why its important for newcomers to have basic English - it stops them falling through the cracks and gives them a good chance of integrating.

    What do you mean by integration though? You can speak the language and not be culturally integrated - the Boston bombers are a perfect example. And you can be economically integrated but relatively inactive in politics with weak language skills - this is the case for many Chinese immigrants, who are extremely hard workes and entrepreneurial, but a rather closed community.
    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    There was a newspaper story about two lads who were sleeping rough in Ennis public toilets. These lads had barely a word of English. As sad and all as their case is, they really should be given a few bob and a flight home. During the boomtimes a lad could come here without the language and find work - but not anymore. And just like the Irish who went to London, fell on hard times, became homeless - these lads will remain due to a sense of not wanting to look a failure to their families at home.

    But as you note, what you are talking about has more to do with the shame of being a failed labor migrant, not necessarily language issues.
    WayneMolloy wrote: »
    Ive never been to mallorca, so cant comment on there. But in Malaga, the locals absolutely despise the brits and paddies. They have completely transformed the coastal areas and not for the better. Paddy bars, fish and chip shops everywhere. Little or no integration. The need for all documentation to be in English. Also, a lot of serious criminals go over there to lay low. I was in benalmadena in spring 2007. I was hanging out in their equivalent of temple bar. There were a group of dublin knick knaks at the bar. They overhear my accent and ask me what part of Dublin iam from. Get talking to them and they tell me they are on the run and as another crew opened fire on the car they were in, on the m50.

    Yeah right, says I but I play along with them. I go home a few days later, bought the herald in the arrivals hall - your mans ma was on the front page. Telling the reporter that her son had fled to Spain to be with his uncle.

    Some serious Irish and British scum over there.

    Malaga is a port city where shady stuff has been going down for aaaages. The Costa del Sol attracts a lot of shady characters because it's run by shady characters - local government is totally corrupt.

    The documentation in English thing is interesting - from what I could tell, the Spanish government isn't that proactive about making info available in other languages, so perhaps it is the regional government? They know where their bread is buttered.


  • #80
    WayneMolloy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 713 ✭✭✭WayneMolloy


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    What do you mean by integration though? You can speak the language and not be culturally integrated - the Boston bombers are a perfect example. And you can be economically integrated but relatively inactive in politics with weak language skills - this is the case for many Chinese immigrants, who are extremely hard workes and entrepreneurial, but a rather closed community.



    But as you note, what you are talking about has more to do with the shame of being a failed labor migrant, not necessarily language issues.



    Malaga is a port city where shady stuff has been going down for aaaages. The Costa del Sol attracts a lot of shady characters because it's run by shady characters - local government is totally corrupt.

    The documentation in English thing is interesting - from what I could tell, the Spanish government isn't that proactive about making info available in other languages, so perhaps it is the regional government? They know where their bread is buttered.

    My idea of integration is quite simple, pay your way, dont become a burden, dont act the bollix, speak the lingo and try not to offend the natives. If you want to get involved in Irish cultural pursuits - even better again. If not - no biggy.

    If a lad comes here with relatively few skills and little or no English then he is relatively screwed in the job market. So unless he is excellent at selling himself, has connections or a stroke of good luck - he will probably fall through the cracks. There are homeless shelters full to the brim with non Irish nationals. There is a European union repatriation fund available to them, but they dont want to go home, due to what I alluded to earlier. Not an ideal situation for these lads, or the state, to find themselves in.

    Maybe I am being overly harsh on the brits and paddies living in Malaga? Maybe I am. The f*ckery that get upto over there is embarrassing. The locals despise them, and then me, by default. I just dont see the point of moving a country and not even making an effort to learn the lingo and make a few new buddies. Some of them brag about living there for so long and not speaking a word of Spanish. The gormless gombeen gene is strong in them.


  • #81
    SHOVELLER
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭SHOVELLER


    Saw a guard taking details off a beggar on Baggot Street yesterday. However in the exact same spot today there was a different beggar with a baby.


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