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Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

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Comments

  • #1532
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    wonderfullife wrote: »
    LOL you'd be as well talking to the wall Playboy, some in here don't want to hear a bit of rational reasoning!

    Earth shattering revelations there that Maggie didn't like the Irish.

    We didn't like the English much either for large periods of our history.

    So what if she didn't like us. Sections of our island were trying to kill her. May slightly have coloured her views on us as a country.

    I was in France for the first time in 2001 and nearly every person i encountered was rude to me. The final straw was having my wallet robbed. I didn't particularly like the French much since then. All that being said i doubt anybody in France cares whether i like them or not and more importantly i'm sure the majority of French people are lovely.

    There's a bit of a difference in a PM saying it though. Bad and all as Haughey was, I don't think he said hated the Brits, I very much doubt Lynch or Garret did either.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1533
    wonderfullife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,924 ✭✭✭wonderfullife


    K-9 wrote: »
    There's a bit of a difference in a PM saying it though. Bad and all as Haughey was, I don't think he said hated the Brits, I very much doubt Lynch or Garret did either.

    Any quotes where Thatcher said "I hate the Irish"?


  • #1534
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Sorry, was the piece about Cromwell linked earlier, getting some to go home and all that. I know Haughey and her didn't get on, but I don't remember anything like that about him and it would hardly be something Lynch, Garret or Cosgrove would say.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1535
    [-0-]
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭[-0-]


    Playboy wrote: »
    what is that supposed to mean? Who is self loathing and how did your intellect come to that conclusion? You would swear the woman presided over a genocide of the Irish? Pray tell what did she do to make you so bitter?

    I've made my case in this thread several times. In future, try reading through a thread before asking a dumb question.


  • #1536
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    K-9 wrote: »
    Sorry, was the piece about Cromwell linked earlier, getting some to go home and all that. I know Haughey and her didn't get on, but I don't remember anything like that about him and it would hardly be something Lynch, Garret or Cosgrove would say.

    i' ld say Mdladic, Karadzic, and Milosovic must be piissed she wasn't in power when they were busy "telling the Muslims to go home".

    they could have counted on her support no doubt.


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  • #1537
    bnt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    Nodin wrote: »
    Seeing as he worked to prevent them, he's hardly going to admit he was wrong...
    How? De Klerk (with a K) only became PM towards the end of 1989, long after sanctions were imposed. Before that he was in various internal government departments such as Internal Affairs and Education, with no say in foreign policy. Almost nobody had heard of him before 1989 - he was like John Major before 1991. ;)
    wonderfullife wrote: »
    We didn't like the English much either for large periods of our history.

    So what if she didn't like us. Sections of our island were trying to kill her. May slightly have coloured her views on us as a country.
    "Didn't like" is fairly accurate, I suppose. Not "hate", or "loathe". That would imply that they care about what the Irish think, and for the most part, they don't. :P

    Irish issues don't feature high on the agenda in the UK. Some folks on this thread seem to think that people everywhere should change their opinions of Maggie, based on what she thought about Ireland and the Irish. Once you leave Liverpool or certain parts of Glasgow or North London, if you ask folks about Ireland, the response will be something they read in the newspaper years ago, if not an outright "meh".

    I know this is an Irish forum, but ... :o

    Government resting upon the will and universal suffrage of the people has no anchorage except in the people's intelligence.

    — Grover Cleveland



  • #1538
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    space_man wrote: »
    i' ld say Mdladic, Karadzic, and Milosovic must be piissed she wasn't in power when they were busy "telling the Muslims to go home".

    they could have counted on her support no doubt.

    Stupid statements like that dont do anything for your argument.


  • #1539
    kinkygirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭kinkygirl


    I wonder if this thread will still be going on the 10th annivarsary of her death.

    The lady died a peaceful death, in one of the best hotels in the world, crowds cheered her as her coffin passed by, a funeral full of wonderful pomp and pageantry. Hate her all you like, but nobody can deny she had a great send off. RIP Maggie.


  • #1540
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I am no fan of Margaret Thatcher but to be perfectly honest I found the jeering and shouting and protesting to be in very poor taste and disrespectful.

    Regardless of you opinions of her or what type of funeral they gave her we would all to well to think of the man and woman mourning their mother, the grandchildren mourning their grandmother, her friends and family left behind.

    They do not deserve and should have to deal with the kind of behaviour that was displayed at the funeral today.

    Again no big fan but really, it's a funeral of an elderly and very ill woman. A little bit of respect and decency wouldn't go amiss folks.


  • #1541
    Ava_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Ava_e


    The Tories wanted a massive turn out to confirm the fact that she was a mourned leader and her polices worked. They did not get that.



    They got the usual nuts who will sleep overnight to watch anyone they see as superior to themselves, be they royalty, film stars or even a shop grocers daughter called Thatcher who hated herself and her backround so much that her life's ambition was to destroy the poor and enrich the richest.

    And that was the only thing in life she succeeded in.


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  • #1542
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    [-0-] wrote: »
    I've made my case in this thread several times. In future, try reading through a thread before asking a dumb question.

    huh? Where and when? I have read through the thread so please show where you described who is self loathing and why and also detail why you personally have an issue with Thatcher. What effect has the woman had on your life to hate her so? Link to your posts because I cant find anything of relevance other than some inane ramblings about Cromwell


  • #1543
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Ava_e wrote: »
    r life's ambition was to destroy the poor and enrich the richest.

    .

    Some of the poor did quite well in the 80's and the richest actually hated her


  • #1544
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    So in this thread so far we have had;

    1. She hates women (even though she is one)
    2. She hates the poor (even though she came from a modest background)
    3. She hates the blacks (even though she helped getting apartheid abolished)
    4. She hates the Irish (even though the IRA tried to blow her up and she has Irish ancestry)
    5. Now space_man has revealed that she hates Muslims too.

    What next for this reincarnation of the Satan... the ultimate self loather.


  • #1545
    Ava_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Ava_e


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Some of the poor did quite well in the 80's and the richest actually hated her


    The only positive thing I can think of regarding the poor was the option to buy their council house. What were her other polices that enriched their lives ?.


  • #1546
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Ava_e wrote: »
    The Tories wanted a massive turn out to confirm the fact that she was a mourned leader and her polices worked. They did not get that.



    They got the usual nuts who will sleep overnight to watch anyone they see as superior to themselves, be they royalty, film stars or even a shop grocers daughter called Thatcher who hated herself and her backround so much that her life's ambition was to destroy the poor and enrich the richest.

    And that was the only thing in life she succeeded in.

    Where do you get this stuff honestly? Do you have no shame coming on here on blowing propaganda and lies out your backside? There is no evidence to suggest anything like this. Lots of poor people and working class voted for her repeatedly... she more than anyone leveled the playing field and introduced a meritocracy culture. Just because some unionised unprofitable industries went out of business you think she tried to destroy the poor? Just lol


  • #1547
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Ava_e wrote: »
    The only positive thing I can think of regarding the poor was the option to buy their council house. What were her other polices that enriched their lives ?.

    You are the one making the accusation so please demonstrate to us how she tried to destroy the poor?


  • #1548
    Mr Tibbs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭Mr Tibbs


    Playboy wrote: »
    Need help to get that boulder off your shoulder?
    Your a born poet.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Careful Tibbs, the mask is slipping.



    Ah Fred will you lighten up its only a bit of mirth sure wasn't I watching it on the box the same as yourself.
    MRs T was known to have no sense of humour she would probably give me that look that put the fear of god in so many of her cabinet member's. I don't know
    I think I'll go out in the cow shed and listen to the rain.


  • #1549
    Ava_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Ava_e


    Playboy wrote: »
    Where do you get this stuff honestly? Do you have no shame coming on here on blowing propaganda and lies out your backside? There is no evidence to suggest anything like this. Lots of poor people and working class voted for her repeatedly... she more than anyone leveled the playing field and introduced a meritocracy culture. Just because some unionised unprofitable industries went out of business you think she tried to destroy the poor? Just lol

    Ok why did the working class vote for her, little Englanders who read the Sun Paper, and believed the Iron Lady was on their side. She hated them and their football culture, which is why she covered up the top report regarding policing during Hillsborough.


    The only time child poverty was above one third was when Labour were out of Goverment. Tories came in poverty went up.

    So are the facts are wrong on child poverty ?.


  • #1550
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    That is just a rant. You make it sound like she screwed everyone for the benefit of the 1%. And that is clearly not true. She was elected three times. And a majority of the UK population think she was good for the country. Look at any opinion poll since her death.

    There is a signifcant and vocal minority that think she was a poor PM who executed poor policy, but to present her legacy as a promotion of greed for the benefit of the view is just baseless nonsense

    Yes indeedy, a 'rant'!
    She was the most unpopular leader on record in the early 80's, all the polls predicted a Labour landslide...then suddenly negociations on the sovereignty of a little island in the south Atlantic are stalled, her defence minister is saying openingly that 'we don't want the Falklands', an announcement, with much fanfare, that a warship HMS Endurance is to be withdrawn, the shelving of proposals to build military installations and the ending of the British Antartic Survey are all designed to give the impression that Britain has no further interest in the region and viola we have an invasion and a war to rescue us from electoral implosion.

    Her legacy is not confined to just the promotion of greed


  • #1551
    kinkygirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭kinkygirl


    Playboy wrote: »
    So in this thread so far we have had;

    1. She hates women (even though she is one)
    2. She hates the poor (even though she came from a modest background)
    3. She hates the blacks (even though she helped getting apartheid abolished)
    4. She hates the Irish (even though the IRA tried to blow her up and she has Irish ancestry)
    5. Now space_man has revealed that she hates Muslims too.

    What next for this reincarnation of the Satan... the ultimate self loather.

    The Chinese? :D


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  • #1552
    Rascasse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭Rascasse


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Yes indeedy, a 'rant'!
    She was the most unpopular leader on record in the early 80's, all the polls predicted a Labour landslide...then suddenly negociations on the sovereignty of a little island in the south Atlantic are stalled, her defence minister is saying openingly that 'we don't want the Falklands', an announcement, with much fanfare, that a warship HMS Endurance is to be withdrawn, the shelving of proposals to build military installations and the ending of the British Antartic Survey are all designed to give the impression that Britain has no further interest in the region and viola we have an invasion and a war to rescue us from electoral implosion.

    Her legacy is not confined to just the promotion of greed
    Conspiracy Theory Forum


  • #1553
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Ava_e wrote: »
    Ok why did the working class vote for her, little Englanders who read the Sun Paper, and believed the Iron Lady was on their side. She hated them and their football culture, which is why she covered up the top report regarding policing during Hillsborough.


    The only time child poverty was above one third was when Labour were out of Goverment from 2007 it rose again when the Tories came into Goverment.

    So are the facts are wrong on child poverty ?.

    So you are basing your accusation that she "tried to destroy the poor" on the metric that child poverty rose? So it had nothing to do with the collapse of the unions and the unprofitable subsidised industries that were bankrupting the state?

    I'll ignore the comment on little Englanders as its crass


  • #1554
    Madam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Madam


    Playboy wrote: »
    So in this thread so far we have had;

    1. She hates women (even though she is one)
    2. She hates the poor (even though she came from a modest background)
    3. She hates the blacks (even though she helped getting apartheid abolished)
    4. She hates the Irish (even though the IRA tried to blow her up and she has Irish ancestry)
    5. Now space_man has revealed that she hates Muslims too.

    What next for this reincarnation of the Satan... the ultimate self loather.

    Could you explain how she did all that = all by herself? As for the 'modest' background, she would never have become Prime Minister if she hadn't married oul Dennis the rich man(I feel a song coming on:)).


  • #1555
    Ava_e
    Closed Accounts Posts: 241 ✭✭Ava_e


    Playboy wrote: »
    You are the one making the accusation so please demonstrate to us how she tried to destroy the poor?
    K
    I think the coal miners she shut down thus destroying a community of income for hundreds of thousands of people, is destroying the poor.

    Serious question for you.

    Are you for real ?.


  • #1556
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Madam wrote: »
    Could you explain how she did all that = all by herself?

    I dont understand the question


  • #1557
    Playboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Playboy


    Ava_e wrote: »
    Tell me how she enriched them ?.

    Sorry you are the one making radical claims to you need to justify them. You are failing to demonstrate an understanding of the time and era Thatcher was PM for. Are you going to hang Enda Kenny when he dies because the poor didn't become rich under his term? There was lots of social mobility in the 80's, people who couldn't previously afford a home could buy one. Communities suffered due to the transition from a heavily manufacturing based economy to a service based economy. Coal Mining and other heavy industries were bleeding the UK dry at the time. The UK has benefited enormously as an economy as a whole since Thatcher and as I have said previously all parties now believe in a version of Thatcherism. Old socialism is dead and gone and there were always going to be consequence because of that but it needed to happen


  • #1558
    space_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭space_man


    Playboy wrote: »
    So in this thread so far we have had;

    1. She hates women (even though she is one)
    2. She hates the poor (even though she came from a modest background)
    3. She hates the blacks (even though she helped getting apartheid abolished)
    4. She hates the Irish (even though the IRA tried to blow her up and she has Irish ancestry)
    5. Now space_man has revealed that she hates Muslims too.

    What next for this reincarnation of the Satan... the ultimate self loather.

    don't just take my word on it.

    Australia's Foreign Minister, Bob Carr, has distanced himself from the chorus of overseas politicians eulogising Baroness Thatcher, recalling an "unabashedly racist" comment she made in relation to Asian immigration.

    Mr Carr said that during a conversation with Lady Thatcher after she had retired, and with his Malaysian-born wife, Helena, standing nearby, the late British prime minister warned him "against Asian immigration, saying that if we allowed too much of it, we'd see the natives of the land, the European settlers, overtaken by migrants".

    :o

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/margaret-thatcher-an-unabashedly-racist-the-view-of-the-australian-foreign-minister-8567946.html


  • #1559
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    kinkygirl wrote: »
    I wonder if this thread will still be going on the 10th annivarsary of her death.

    The lady died a peaceful death, in one of the best hotels in the world, crowds cheered her as her coffin passed by, a funeral full of wonderful pomp and pageantry. Hate her all you like, but nobody can deny she had a great send off. RIP Maggie.

    2,300 (some hostile) isn't actually a massive send off tbh.


  • #1560
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
    Let me give one anecdote to which I can personally attest. In leaving office she became a “consultant” to US tobacco giant Phillip Morris. She immediately used her influence on behalf of Phillip Morris to persuade the FCO to lobby the Polish government to reduce the size of health warnings on Polish cigarette packets. Poland was applying to join the EU, and the Polish health warnings were larger than the EU stipulated size.

    I was the official on whose desk the instruction landed to lobby for lower health warnings. I refused to do it. My then Ambassador, Michael Llewellyn Smith (for whom I had and have great respect) came up with the brilliant diplomatic solution of throwing the instruction in the bin, but telling London we had done it.

    So as you drown in a sea of praise for Thatcher, remember this. She was prepared to promote lung cancer, for cash.

    Classy woman. :rolleyes:


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  • #1561
    AEDIC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 444 ✭✭AEDIC


    space_man wrote: »
    don't just take my word on it.

    Australia's Foreign Minister, Bob Carr, has distanced himself from the chorus of overseas politicians eulogising Baroness Thatcher, recalling an "unabashedly racist" comment she made in relation to Asian immigration.

    Mr Carr said that during a conversation with Lady Thatcher after she had retired, and with his Malaysian-born wife, Helena, standing nearby, the late British prime minister warned him "against Asian immigration, saying that if we allowed too much of it, we'd see the natives of the land, the European settlers, overtaken by migrants".

    :o

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/margaret-thatcher-an-unabashedly-racist-the-view-of-the-australian-foreign-minister-8567946.html


    So all Asians = Muslim??


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