Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

dr.bollocko

Hello folks,

Following on from a recently closed mega merge thread which is currently under review.

Please use this thread only for discussion of the recent death of Maggie Thatcher.

This is not a condolences forum so as a result of this, fair criticism of her legacy is allowed / understandable.

However bile / jokes / off-topic nonsense / piss on her grave type crap will be removed and people will be carded / banned.

Bergkamp 10

<snip>

Discussion of moderation belongs in feedback forum. OR PM a mod. Either way your post was inaccurate.

Skerries

Appropriate

Lenin Skynard

<snip>

Banned.

Wacker The Attacker

They took my maggie

Icyseanfitz

what exactly did this woman do? im not up on the whole english hating thing tbh

4zn76tysfajdxp

dodderangler wrote: »

You can't seriously think a different thread is gonna change people's opinion of her
Pissing on her grave is very timid
In my opinion she shouldn't have a grave
Not worthy of it

You wanna just... leave her out? Think of the smell...

nucker

I didn't like any of her policies, but as to pee on her grave, that is going too far. I wouldn't even do that on my worse enemy, it would show the character I am if I did

stevenmu

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

what exactly did this woman do? im not up on the whole english hating thing tbh

When the Irish Ambassador invited her to the embassy for a symbolic glass of Guinness, she mentioned that she much preferred a nice glass of port.

That bitch!

Grayson

dodderangler wrote: »

You can't seriously think a different thread is gonna change people's opinion of her
Pissing on her grave is very timid
In my opinion she shouldn't have a grave
Not worthy of it

I see you want to give her a mausoleum

nucker

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

what exactly did this woman do? im not up on the whole english hating thing tbh

Probably the policies on NI/Rep of Ireland etc etc

But the PIRA (now, I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest), did almost kill her

Zebra3

She was a supporter of terrorism.

Everybody knew the British army was giving weapons and intelligence to loyalist death squads and she did nothing to intervene.

She also supported Pinochet and his campaign of mass murder in Chile as well as Reagan's war against the democratically elected government of Nicaragua.

But I suppose she "fixed the roads" for the world's criminal financial elite so the mainstream media will give her decent obituaries. :rolleyes:

Grayson

nucker wrote: »

I didn't like any of her policies, but as to pee on her grave, that is going too far. I wouldn't even do that on my worse enemy, it would show the character I am if I did

I dunno. There have been many times I thought about doing that to Peig Sayers

Prodigious

No loss. She's off chilling with Bin Laden now.

Chuck Stone

She was a duplicitous authoritarian hypocrite that stoked the conflict in the north by energising physical force Republicanism with her short-sighted policies.

As for neo-liberalism - look at 'us' now in the west. US infrastructure is crumbling and they're up to their necks in debt, war, and blood and this is the burden of the ordinary man and woman not war profiteers and military-industrial corporations.

The UK is heavily in debt too and and the north of the country is replete with inter-generational welfare ghettos. You need two people working to have a good standard of living for a young family these days. Extremes of wealth and poverty haven't been so pronounced since victorian times.

As someone else commented earlier it's too soon to say if Thatcherism and Reaganomics has wrecked the west or benefitted it (it's not looking too good atm) and that's completely ignoring any moral and ethical appraisal.

Mr Benevolent

Jaysus, you'd swear we were talking about Hitler the way some posters are going on. Overall Thatcher made a positive impact on the UK economy and way of life. She treated the NI question with slightly too much rigour, causing a few Irish people to ignore every single good thing she ever did. IMO her greatest achievement was to release the stranglehold that unions had on the UK's economy.

El Inho

And I thought the americans went over boards when they got Bin Laden...

now i understand.

The Backwards Man

I think this is as good an obit as any that will be written about Thatcher in the coming days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1jY5fYjV-U

hare

Was outside a school when i heard the news.bobby sands words came to mind revenge will be the laughter of our children.

irish bloke

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

what exactly did this woman do? im not up on the whole english hating thing tbh

Probably too young then.

seamus

I was born in the eighties, therefore she had no effect on me personally, I was too young to care about politics and I don't buy into the Republican agenda which paints her (and the rest of the UK) as a monster.

As best I understand it, she made some harsh political decisions, many of which involved breaking unions, so she gets my respect for that. Unions have become a pox on the western world, where once they were the guardians of the common worker, now they're just elitist quangos with no goal except to stifle progress and drain money from the hardworking taxpayers. She took them on when they were at their height of power in the UK and that deserves some respect.

Like other leaders, she also had plenty of unpleasant things like supporting an apartheid regime and opposing some human rights. But in the context of the 1980s I don't think that set her much apart from her contemporaries.

So basically I don't really care. About the best thing she managed to do was become a female PM at a time when women's rights were really only starting to take hold. That alone is notable.

I'm going to purposely avoid listening to the radio on the way home tonight as no doubt they'll bring on all the tin can banging republicans to bleat on about her evilness.

Banjo String

My views haven't changed.

Won't post any of the vile comments I seen on the locked thread, but I will go on record here to say good riddance to her.

She was a bad egg.

the groutch

OMG! Gonna miss her so much, the greatest woman who ever lived, EVER!


happy now mods? :rolleyes:

nucker

Grayson wrote: »

I dunno. There have been many times I thought about doing that to Peig Sayers

So what makes you a "better person" for doing such thing? Everyone does have a hatred of everyone, but to stoop to that level...nah, y'know

Zebra3

Lest we forget, her support for Saddam when his forces were gassing Kurdish + Iranian civilians.

No mention of that in the mainstream media so far. :rolleyes:

donfers

seamus wrote: »

I was born in the eighties, therefore she had no effect on me personally, I was too young to care about politics and I don't buy into the Republican agenda which paints her (and the rest of the UK) as a monster.

As best I understand it, she made some harsh political decisions, many of which involved breaking unions, so she gets my respect for that. Unions have become a pox on the western world, where once they were the guardians of the common worker, now they're just elitist quangos with no goal except to stifle progress and drain money from the hardworking taxpayers. She took them on when they were at their height of power in the UK and that deserves some respect.

Like other leaders, she also had plenty of unpleasant things like supporting an apartheid regime and opposing some human rights. But in the context of the 1980s I don't think that set her much apart from her contemporaries.

So basically I don't really care. About the best thing she managed to do was become a female PM at a time when women's rights were really only starting to take hold. That alone is notable.

I'm going to purposely avoid listening to the radio on the way home tonight as no doubt they'll bring on all the tin can banging republicans to bleat on about her evilness.

you seem to think it's only republicans that dislike her, how do you explain her massive unpopularity in her own country

joebloggs32

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

what exactly did this woman do? im not up on the whole english hating thing tbh

It is not simply an "English hating thing", as many people in England hate her too.

irish bloke

El Spearo wrote: »

And I thought the americans went over boards when they got Bin Laden...

now i understand.

I don't think any one person is despised by the Irish public more then Maggie, especially the generation growing up with her.

A real nasty piece of work

Icyseanfitz

irish bloke wrote: »

Probably too young then.

well i have friends that would be my age that are all fcuk english this fcuk english that, never really saw the point myself, shes gone now, 1916 is gone now, all that ****e is pretty much gone now (except for the few diehards up north)
the people who caused all these problems for the irish are no longer in power or dead so why should i care

Bergkamp 10

Its no surprise FG supporters are saddened at her passing. After all she is their hero, an anti Irish party just like their blue brothers the Tories and the BNP.

old hippy

Zebra3 wrote: »

She was a supporter of terrorism.

Everybody knew the British army was giving weapons and intelligence to loyalist death squads and she did nothing to intervene.

She also supported Pinochet and his campaign of mass murder in Chile as well as Reagan's war against the democratically elected government of Nicaragua.

But I suppose she "fixed the roads" for the world's criminal financial elite so the mainstream media will give her decent obituaries. :rolleyes:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/jan/09/cambodia

"The most damaging element, for Britain at least, of Ta Mok's court appearance will be new evidence about how British troops and diplomats helped the Khmer Rouge in their fight for power.
Contacted in his prison cell through an intermediary last week, he confirmed to The Observer that the extent to which London and Washington helped the Khmer Rouge in their fight to control Cambodia would be revealed during his trial. The evidence will contradict statements made by Margaret Thatcher's Government - which authorised the operation at the time."

My name is URL

dr.bollocko wrote: »

However bile / jokes / off-topic nonsense / piss on her grave type crap will be removed and people will be carded / banned.

Will that be the case for all threads about deceased people from now on?

dr.bollocko

the groutch wrote: »

OMG! Gonna miss her so much, the greatest woman who ever lived, EVER!


happy now mods? :rolleyes:

mod:
Post in this thread again = Get banned.

Bergkamp 10

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

well i have friends that would be my age that are all fcuk english this fcuk english that, never really saw the point myself, shes gone now, 1916 is gone now, all that ****e is pretty much gone now (except for the few diehards up north)
the people who caused all these problems for the irish are no longer in power or dead so why should i care

typical of the me me me thought process of your generation.
if it doesnt affect me why should I care.

No wonder this country is the way it is. Selfishness like ^^^

The Backwards Man

irish bloke wrote: »

I don't think any one person is despised by the Irish public more then Maggie, especially the generation growing up with her.

A real nasty piece of work

I dunno about that, I'm as Irish as the day is long and there's quite a few of her contemporaries who I despise a hell of a lot more than Maggie.

I won't find any reason to celebrate when they die either though.

kunst nugget

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Jaysus, you'd swear we were talking about Hitler the way some posters are going on. Overall Hitler made a positive impact on the Germany economy and way of life. He treated the Jewish question with slightly too much rigour, causing a few Jewish people to ignore every single good thing he ever did. IMO her greatest achievement was to release the stranglehold that Jews had on the Germany's economy.

FYP.

TheUsual

Wesley Snipes gets released from prison in America the SAME week that Thatcher dies.
Coincidence ??

I don't think so. It's vampire hunting time.
Blade 4.

seamus

donfers wrote: »

you seem to think it's only republicans that dislike her, how do you explain her massive unpopularity in her own country

That only appears to be in some primarily working class areas where her "no compromises" economic policies caused serious employment issues.

She was elected 3 times, so she can't have been that hated. She really was more of a wartime leader, very conservative, so as the peaceful nineties wee approaching and people were becoming far more liberal, her policies would have become increasingly unpopular.

A leader is only as popular as their last act, so there was probably some additional bitter sentiment there from her final years in power as she was seen as impeding progress.

Agricola

It interesting how Churchill is as revered in Britain as Thatcher is vilified. Both of them would have had very similar outlooks though you would have thought. Would he have conducted himself any differently had he been in power during the 80's?

dr.bollocko

dodderangler wrote: »

You can't seriously think a different thread is gonna change people's opinion of her
Pissing on her grave is very timid
In my opinion she shouldn't have a grave
Not worthy of it

What I said was, and just to be very clear about this, that criticism is fine. Criticism is understandable. But there's a line between criticism and being a dick and that line is crossed by much of the bile in that now locked / under review thread.

As previously mentioned, any discussion of moderation does not belong here. Please use the feedback forum or PM a mod with any questions.

Fair warning.

El Inho

I presume ya's have seen the RTÉ website?

Turn off adblock for a second and go check it out...brilliant that they haven't changed it

Icyseanfitz

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

typical of the me me me thought process of your generation.
if it doesnt affect me why should I care.

No wonder this country is the way it is. Selfishness like ^^^

so tell me this, what whould giving a **** about this person do now? do you even know what age i am? no is the answer, im not a selfish person i just couldnt give a crap about politics of any kind,

this woman never did anything to me or anyone i know, neither did the black and tans but i suppose i should hate them all as im irish sure :rolleyes:

you and your like sir are what is wrong with the world

Bergkamp 10

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

so tell me this, what whould giving a **** about this person do now? do you even know what age i am? no is the answer, im not a selfish person i just couldnt give a crap about politics of any kind,

this woman never did anything to me or anyone i know, neither did the black and tans but i suppose i should hate them all as im irish sure :rolleyes:

you and your like sir are what is wrong with the world

You care so little you stumbled into this thread, maybe you should take your poisonous attitude and stumble out of it.

kunst nugget

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

typical of the me me me thought process of your generation.
if it doesnt affect me why should I care.

No wonder this country is the way it is. Selfishness like ^^^

Typical 'back in my day' thought process of your generation.
If give out enough people might believe I know what I'm talking about.

Blaming the youth for the state of the country is farcical. It's the older generations that wrecked the gaff and handed the younger ones the hangover.

Grayson

nucker wrote: »

So what makes you a "better person" for doing such thing? Everyone does have a hatred of everyone, but to stoop to that level...nah, y'know

No stooping involved. I'd like to think I could aim a stream. Unless I was drunk. Then peig may have her revenge.

end of the road

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

her greatest achievement was to release the stranglehold that unions had on the UK's economy.

the unions never had any stranglehold on anything, they were looking after the workers, good on them, thankfully she failed as the unions still can look after the workers, they can't do as much, but she didn't bring them down.

irish bloke

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

so tell me this, what whould giving a **** about this person do now? do you even know what age i am? no is the answer, im not a selfish person i just couldnt give a crap about politics of any kind,

this woman never did anything to me or anyone i know, neither did the black and tans but i suppose i should hate them all as im irish sure :rolleyes:

you and your like sir are what is wrong with the world

Thumbs down

dr.bollocko

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

You care so little you stumbled into this thread, maybe you should take your poisonous attitude and stumble out of it.

Mod:
Post in this thread again = get banned.

wonderfullife

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

what exactly did this woman do? im not up on the whole english hating thing tbh

Ok i'll give this a try:

Took over in 1979 with inflation running at 13%, the highest rate of income tax in the 1970s was 98% income-tax on earnings over £20,000 (83% + 15% investment income surcharge), unemployment high, public sector striking epidemic.

Implemented sweeping changes at home and abroad that pissed-off the following groups: Republicans, the far-left, the left, the working class, Argentina, trade unions. Had unhealthy indifference/support to Pinochet in Chile (mainly as he helped them win the Falklands War), a mixed attitude towards Apartheid (a critic of it, but wanted a consensus of all the people and for South Africa to work out the solution for itself). Praised by the likes of FW de Clerk for her support of South Africa.

By the end of all that when she left office in 1990, inflation was around 7%, unemployment down from a peak of 3,000,000 in 1984 to 1,700,000 in 1990, income tax around 40%, a burgeoning private sector, GDP massively increased.

Her policy was one of pig-headedness and determination in implementing her beliefs, both a strength and massive weakness. Even some of the most ardent critics in the Mining movement now acknowledge what she did, in the fullness of time, was correct but can never agree to the way she handled it.

Amongst her key achievements, other than the economy, she played a monumental role in ending the Cold War, becoming a friend of Gorbachev AND Regan - in fact advising Gorbachev on how to deal with Regan. Her role on the international stage was enormous.

People hate her because of the suffering she inflicted. The sinking of the Belgrano, the treatment of nationalists/republicans, her ostracising working class northern areas and preferencing the south/London, her policies allowing the rich to get richer under the pretext that everybody could do it.

She didn't go around sticking pins in childrens eyes or anything. She was a determined, conservative leader who in totality shaped the UK the way she wanted to shape it. She was Prime Minister 3 times, re-elected twice and even her political rivals (Labour) adopted many of her policies under Tony Blair in order to get elected.

Divisive, polarising politician but bottom line she died a senile, old lady and all this talk of throwing parties or pissing on graves is a sad indictment of the people saying these things.

joebloggs32

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

well i have friends that would be my age that are all fcuk english this fcuk english that, never really saw the point myself, shes gone now, 1916 is gone now, all that ****e is pretty much gone now (except for the few diehards up north)
the people who caused all these problems for the irish are no longer in power or dead so why should i care

Not a student of history so, as you appear to not understand that we need to learn lessons from the past to prevent making the same mistakes in the future

gurramok

seamus wrote: »

I was born in the eighties, therefore she had no effect on me personally, I was too young to care about politics and I don't buy into the Republican agenda which paints her (and the rest of the UK) as a monster.

I was born in the 70s, you have had to live at the time to know what she was like.
Yes she was a b1tch to NI affairs helping to generate the IRA through her "No Surrender" Paisleyite NI policies.

At home in the UK she was the modern day example of an extreme elite capitalist who invented yuppieism. F*** the poor was her attitude, she introduced poll tax where you paid the same no matter what your income was, all humans were targeted whereby millionaires paid the same as poor people. This justifiably brought her down.

And yes the unions, she went too far with the miners. You just don't destroy the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of people at the whim, she gave no alternative industry for the miners, she sacked them all. She created untold misery.

You don't understand that at that time the union members were poorly paid unlike our modern equivalents. There were hardly any worker protection laws like we have now. There is no comparison.

She destroyed compassion in society in pursuit of serving the elite.