Condescending attitudes towards people who bought houses during the boom

Menas · 13-04-2013 01:06PM

I too bought sold and bought again during the boom. I am very happy with where I live, my tracker is cheaper then renting the same house and now that I have kids I can modify the house to make it more child friendly.
I don't imagine a landlord would allow me to build a child's playroom!

I am also lucky not to be in negative equity but that does not matter as no intention to move.

I don't think people have an attitude towards me because I bought during the boom.
But I think a lot of people made some very bad decisions. Paying over the odds for a property in cavan 'only 39 mins from dublin' and getting a mortgage that they could never afford if the smallest stress happened.
feel sorry for them but hate when people try to absolve themselves of responsibility for their bad decisions by blaming the banks.

donegal_road · 13-04-2013 01:12PM

for very many young people, if in the mid 2000's you didn't have a decent car and a house you were considered a failure, especially when you were in an occupation where it was easy to get mortage(s). eg. Garda

padd b1975 · 13-04-2013 01:12PM

Joe Hart wrote: »

HIs circumstances don't change the fact they paid hundreds of thousands more for something. I could go out and buy a house for 150K. If it halved in value Id be annoyed as its money wasted. Its not the end of the world though at that level.

I'm not into gloating about the four years I've spent renting really nice places in Donnybrook and Ballsbridge. Or breaking mens hearts handing over 5K for their 55K Audis that seemed such a good idea in 2007. Financial prudence will always win out.

Thats fine, you did what you felt was best for you at the time.

Cracking bit of business on the Audi:)

shopaholic01 · 13-04-2013 01:32PM

donegal_road wrote: »

for very many young people, if in the mid 2000's you didn't have a decent car and a house you were considered a failure, especially when you were in an occupation where it was easy to get mortage(s). eg. Garda

It was relatively easy for anyone with a steady income to get a mortgage during the boom.

Now it's easier for anyone with a permanent job.

daithi1970 · 13-04-2013 01:33PM

What a lot of people forget is that a lot of people were trading up to meet the needs of growing families-we sold and bought in 2006 for just that purpose, and I would have sympathies for people who thought that their salaries at the time would keep them over water..hindsight is always 20/20, and I wouldnt have too much time for gloaters in this regard.

daithi

pragmatic1 · 13-04-2013 01:38PM

Don't like being condescending, but anyone that bought a pokey little two bedroom in Dublin for half a million was a bit daft. It's not like this was the first property crash to ever happen, there have been dozens of them.

up for anything · 13-04-2013 01:46PM

My name is URL wrote: »

hahaha... stupid homeowners

snubbleste wrote: »

Greed.

bluewolf wrote: »

Fair few people might see it as turnabout for getting condescending attitudes from them during the boom for not buying

Stuck for words at the attitudes above.

You never know what life holds in store for you even if you are a wise virgin squirrel so it's best not to take too much pleasure in other people's trouble.

woodoo · 13-04-2013 01:53PM

When the people with massive mortgages take Ben Dunne's advice and head off for a year to the UK and declare bankruptcy, they will be able to come back and start renting or get social housing. All will be left is people that bought their houses and can afford them and i don't see why people could be condescending to them.

13-04-2013 02:04PM

Joe Hart wrote: »

HIs circumstances don't change the fact they paid hundreds of thousands more for something. I could go out and buy a house for 150K. If it halved in value Id be annoyed as its money wasted. Its not the end of the world though at that level.

I'm not into gloating about the four years I've spent renting really nice places in Donnybrook and Ballsbridge. Or breaking mens hearts handing over 5K for their 55K Audis that seemed such a good idea in 2007. Financial prudence will always win out.

Vomit. You are a great addition to boards.

Ilik Urgee · 13-04-2013 02:06PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

I bought during the boom.

I am very happy where I live and have no plans to move.

My monthly repayments are much lower than what it would cost me to rent a similar property.

Anyone else read this with a Hugh Dennis accent?

Duggys Housemate · 13-04-2013 02:10PM

Are houses without tracker mortgages any less costly these days than houses bought with tracker mortgages during the boom in terms of total repayments?

I don't see that the people who bought with trackers are in a bad position. ( I rented)

Menas · 13-04-2013 02:17PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Are houses without tracker mortgages any less costly these days than houses bought with tracker mortgages during the boom in terms of total repayments?

I don't see that the people who bought with trackers are in a bad position. ( I rented)

That is a very good question. I am not clever enough to figure it out.

Chop Chop · 13-04-2013 02:19PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Are houses without tracker mortgages any less costly these days than houses bought with tracker mortgages during the boom in terms of total repayments?

I don't see that the people who bought with trackers are in a bad position. ( I rented)

Variable is way more expensive, if you had a tracker you paid 1.5% above the ECB rate. Variable is about 3% above that. So it's way more costly. In some instances someone that borrowed €350k during the boom is paying the same monthly as someone that borrowed €200k today.

Duggys Housemate · 13-04-2013 02:21PM

That explains most of the price drop then ( not unemployment etc ). The real cost is the payments per month x number of months. In many ways the ticket price of the house is misleading.

13-04-2013 02:23PM

There was one girl where I worked who had her own house/mortgage.. She was maybe 6 years older than me but we were the two younger ones in the office. She was so fekin "respected" because of it and other colleagues were saying to me that I should get one aswell. There was a definite air of superiority from anyone who had a house and especially if it was an investment.

Think a lot of people remember those attitudes and now that it's all went tits up, are quite happy to be the condescending ones.

Chop Chop · 13-04-2013 02:26PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

That explains most of the price drop then ( not unemployment etc ). The real cost is the payments per month x number of months. In many ways the ticket price of the house is misleading.

Exactly, people only care about servicing the monthly. The monthly hasn't really changed much since the crash, the average is about ~€900.

Menas · 13-04-2013 02:30PM

Chop Chop wrote: »

Variable is way more expensive, if you had a tracker you paid 1.5% above the ECB rate. Variable is about 3% above that. So it's way more costly. In some instances someone that borrowed €350k during the boom is paying the same monthly as someone that borrowed €200k today.

Most trackers are just 1% over the ECB rate from what I know.

padd b1975 · 13-04-2013 02:30PM

Chop Chop wrote: »

Variable is way more expensive, if you had a tracker you paid 1.5% above the ECB rate. Variable is about 3% above that. So it's way more costly. In some instances someone that borrowed €350k during the boom is paying the same monthly as someone that borrowed €200k today.

Yes, and with a variable rate mortgage you have the added stress of worrying that the bank can increase their rates pretty much on a whim as well as keeping an eye on the ECB monthly press conference.

Three Seasons · 13-04-2013 02:31PM

I certainly have some sympathy for people who bought during the boom as it's a horrible situation to be in even if it was unwise to sign the contract.

I would however be condescending to those who blame others for the situation they find themselves in. When people act like children you tend to be condescending to them. One thing I can't stand is those who walk through the world without any sense of personal responsibility. They blame others that they don't have a job or that they bought a house at the wrong time.

Chop Chop · 13-04-2013 02:37PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Yes, and with a variable rate mortgage you have the added stress of worrying that the bank can increase their rates pretty much on a whim as well as keeping an eye on the ECB monthly press conference.

Correct, and the bank will tell you that they need to raise the variable because they are not making money off the trackers. This is because the price they buy the money for is more expensive now than what they loaned it out for on the tracker mortgage. They don't have the ability to increase the interest on a tracker when the price of buying money from the ECB goes up, so the variable rate mortgage gets hit.

This is why they are offering people money to get off the tracker. So they "can" increase your monthly on a whim.

ahnowbrowncow · 13-04-2013 02:37PM

up for anything wrote: »

Stuck for words at the attitudes above.

You never know what life holds in store for you even if you are a wise virgin squirrel so it's best not to take too much pleasure in other people's trouble.

Weren't stuck for too long

donegal_road · 13-04-2013 02:41PM

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

That explains most of the price drop then ( not unemployment etc ). The real cost is the payments per month x number of months. In many ways the ticket price of the house is misleading.

yep... a house advertised at €300k for example, will end up costing the buyer approx €530k over 30 years @ 4.5% interest

Will it be worth €530 in 30 years when you go to resell it? I dont think so

padd b1975 · 13-04-2013 02:46PM

donegal_road wrote: »

yep... a house advertised at €300k for example, will end up costing the buyer approx €530k over 30 years @ 4.5% interest

Will it be worth €530 in 30 years when you go to resell it? I dont think so

Or you could pay 1472 euro per month in rent (plus whatever the rate of inflation is going into the future) and have nothing to show for it apart from a landlord with a mortgage free property.

The choice is yours.

donegal_road · 13-04-2013 02:52PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Or you could pay 1472 euro per month in rent (plus whatever the rate of inflation is going into the future) and have nothing to show for it apart from a landlord with a mortgage free property.

The choice is yours.

and be free to bugger off whenever the notion takes you, and not have to worry about servicing a massive mortgage, a be restfully assured that you haven't spent most of the only life that you will ever have, paying way over the odds for something that might only yield you half of what you sunk into.

Chop Chop · 13-04-2013 02:53PM

donegal_road wrote: »

and be free to bugger off whenever the notion takes you, and not have to worry about servicing a massive mortgage, a be restfully assured that you haven't spent most of the only life that you will ever have, paying way over the odds for something that might only yield you half of what you sunk into.

You could say the same about renting, if you did it for long enough, only thing is you wouldn't own it at the end.

_Kaiser_ · 13-04-2013 02:56PM

I have every sympathy for those genuine cases who bought a modest house in the "good times" and now through unemployment or general hard times are struggling.

These are the people who deserve help - not debt forgiveness or mortgage write-offs - but their lenders should be forced to work with them to agree realistic and manageable payment terms that change with circumstances.

Those who bought ridiculously overpriced houses they could barely afford as it was on the idea that they'd flip them for a "tidy profit" a few years later, or those who bought houses and apartments because they thought they too could become property kings/landlords are a very different story.

In either case however, no one dragged people off the street and forced them to sign the mortgage papers. No one forced people to lie/exaggerate on the applications to get approval (as happened in lots of cases) and as adults it was everyone's responsibility to read the terms and conditions and think ahead - because after all "your investment may go down as well as up". As such it's neither my (nor anyone else's) fault or responsibility to take the hit for these people now that it's gone sour.

Like many others I too got the calls from my bank offering me money for cars, holidays, home improvements or that I'd been "pre-approved" for nearly half a million euro's worth of mortgage.

I also was sick to my back teeth of having friends and others telling me how renting is "dead money" and how I should "get on the property ladder"

The difference maybe was that I grew up in the 70s and 80s when times were harder and money was in shorter supply - I didn't have mammy and daddy to pay for everything. I'm not saying this in a "woe is me" or "wasn't I just great" kinda way.. just that it did help me appreciate the value of a punt/euro.

As such I didn't want a 3/4-bed semi-D in the middle of nowhere with 500 others like it, no local facilities, no friends or family nearby, and spending maybe 3-4 hours a day commuting to work so I can pay the mortgage.

I saw/see renting as a "service" and at the peak of the "good times" I was living in Blanch, 5 mins from the Maynooth line into town, 15 from Blanch SC with everything I could need, and 10 mins from work and most of my mates. Didn't seem like "dead money" to me considering there's no way I could have afforded the same property if I was buying.

The one thing I would like to see changed though is a proper rental market where long-term renting isn't the 2/3 years it is now, but maybe 10-15 years or longer... as is the case in many other countries.

The worst thing though is many people still haven't gotten over the property obsession. Between our "leaders" and media trying to convince us we've turned the corner (again) and property prices are stabilising or even rising, and then a lot of other people just waiting to jump into the same mess again, it's painfully obvious that most people haven't learned a thing from the last 5 years.

Czarcasm · 13-04-2013 02:57PM

I had a lengthy rebuttal written out, but boards time-outs happily saw to extinguish that one, so I'll keep this reply short.

Fr_Fitzexactly wrote: »

It doesn't help to start calling people who bought during the boom idiots and morons. It might have been apparent that a crash was going to happen but nobody knew exactly when. These people had a life and a job and they probably weren't economists. They didn't need to know loads about the economy, things were good and they were making money. We all have great ideas about how to better the economy now but that wasn't the case at the height of the boom.

See this is the problem. Do you often make a purchase without doing your research first? They absolutely DID need to know loads about the economy if they were borrowing upwards of €10k, €100k, or even €1m.

I'd say a lot of those berating people who bought during the boom were too busy watching pokemon to even notice what was going on but they're experts on all things economy now.

I'd say it was more those who bought during the boom were too busy watching pokemon to pick up a newspaper and read the business section, realise they were living in an over-inflated virtual money bubble economy, and say to themselves "now is not a good time to invest in property".

They also could've been too young to remember the recession in the 80's, nothing a history book wouldn't have reminded them of, or maybe they were old enough to remember that recession, but foolish enough to have forgotten what it was like to have gone through it. I remember when I used pick up the Irish Independent newspaper and they regularly ran a competition to "Win your dream home for £100,000".

I'm not an economist either btw, but my bullshìt detector went off the scale when you had the likes of "popconomists" or celebrity economists like Hobbs and McWilliams making their fortune off telling people where to invest their "new found" wealth to get the best return for their money, and the Joe Soap amateur "property speculator" lapping this shìt up.

Where are Hobbs and McWilliams now? Not a word out of them.

April O Neill · 13-04-2013 02:57PM

anncoates wrote: »

As with all these others posts dripping with schadenfreude, I'm at a loss to see how you're any nicer than they are.

Actually, they're probably better because they learned a life lesson at least.

Well, I didn't see him claim he was "nicer".

Menas · 13-04-2013 02:57PM

Plus once you reach retirement you are still paying rent whilst you peers have no rent or mortgage to pay.

Chop Chop · 13-04-2013 02:59PM

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

The worst thing though is many people still haven't gotten over the property obsession. Between our "leaders" and media trying to convince us we've turned the corner (again) and property prices are stabilising or even rising, and then a lot of other people just waiting to jump into the same mess again, it's painfully obvious that most people haven't learned a thing from the last 5 years.

This is a decoy to generate more revenue from the property tax.

Condescending attitudes towards people who bought houses during the boom

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