Condescending attitudes towards people who bought houses during the boom

anncoates

gallag wrote: »

What model was this?

The Audi Tall Story Turbo series.

anncoates

April O Neill wrote: »

Probably not.

Try definitely not.

coffee_cake

gallag wrote: »

How? They gave plenty of notice, I did not want to take time of work to be there, they said they did not need me to be there but they would still be coming to take photos of my home. What were my rights I did not enforce?

What rights do you have to access your property?
Once a tenant occupies the property, a landlord is only allowed to enter
the property with the tenant’s permission or in an emergency. If repairs
or an inspection need to be carried out on the premises then the
landlord must make a prior arrangement with the tenant to gain access.

anncoates wrote: »

Try definitely not.

Other than what I said

anncoates

"bluewolf wrote: »

Other than what I said

Sorry, I generally tend to skip your posts.

April O Neill

anncoates wrote: »

Try definitely not.

You COMPLETELY ignored the rest of the post. Even if you break even, renting has some benefits over buying.

As for definitely not, not necessarily, seeing as you will likely pay out more on mortgage and home maintenance over a lifetime than you will on renting. Now if the renter doesn't save this extra cash, they won't be any better off. But they do, they will most likely will. Add to this, they can move around more to pursue better pay and prospects if they wish.

Chop Chop

April O Neill wrote: »

You COMPLETELY ignored the rest of the post. Even if you break even, renting has some benefits over buying.

As for definitely not, not necessarily, seeing as you will likely pay out more on mortgage and home maintenance over a lifetime than you will on renting. Now if the renter doesn't save this extra cash, they won't be any better off. But they do, they will most likely will. Add to this, they can move around more to pursue better pay and prospects if they wish.

Some people don't want to rent, they want a home of their own. The monthly is about the same so why do you have to pretty much say the same thing over and over?

Renting is for you, we get it, it's not for me and I wanted to buy a house, it actually worked out cheaper in my experience.

anncoates

April O Neill wrote: »

You COMPLETELY ignored the rest of the post. Even if you break even, renting has some benefits over buying.

As for definitely not, not necessarily, seeing as you will likely pay out more on mortgage and home maintenence ance over a lifetime than you will on renting. Now if the renter doesn't save this extra cash, they won't be any better off. But they do, they will most likely will. Add to this, they can move around more to pursue better pay and prospects if they wish.

Nice caps. Try and contain your temper, perhaps.

I ignored the other part of your post because it had zero relation to my post and you made it purely to switch tack when you couldn't initially defend your own point.

By the way, many people rent out mortgaged houses quite easily and move. My wife being an example.

Not that I care particularly if people rent or buy. It's their choice.

April O Neill

Chop Chop wrote: »

Some people don't want to rent, they want a home of their own. The monthly is about the same so why do you have to pretty much say the same thing over and over?

Renting is for you, we get it, it's not for me and I wanted to buy a house, it actually worked out cheaper in my experience.

Chop Chop, if you read my posts in this thread, in some I have acknowledged there are pros and cons to bought, and that I might some day buy one myself.

But there are annoying misconceptions out there about how buying is better than renting in every way, and there's nothing wrong with pointing those out.

Why get so het up?

April O Neill

anncoates wrote: »

Nice caps. Try and contain your temper, perhaps.

:pac:

I ignored the other part of your post because it had zero relation to my post and you made it purely to switch tack when you couldn't initially defend your own point.

No I didn't, it was part of my point. If you think it wasn't part of my point, grand, that's your right to see it that way. And I answered your question, not sure how that's switching tack but ok!

By the way, many people rent out mortgaged houses quite easily and move. My wife being an example.

Obviously. But if you bought in boomtime, the rent won't be covering your payments if you live somewhere with a housing glut.

Not that I care particularly if people rent or buy. It's their choice.

Me neither. Just pointing out the ways renting trumps buying.

Chop Chop

April O Neill wrote: »

Chop Chop, if you read my posts in this thread, in some I have acknowledged there are pros and cons to bought, and that I might some day buy one myself.

But there are annoying misconceptions out there about how buying is better than renting in every way, and there's nothing wrong with pointing those out.

Why get so het up?

Who said it? Apologies if I missed it, but I don't recollect anyone posting that at all. You are pushing the argument that renting is better in every way from what I have read so far.

April O Neill

Chop Chop wrote: »

Who said it? Apologies if I missed it, but I don't recollect anyone posting that at all. You are pushing the argument that renting is better in every way from what I have read so far.

In every way? No I haven't. I've given reasons why it can be better, that doesn't mean I think it's better in every way. If you want to see it that way, go ahead.

Chop Chop

April O Neill wrote: »

In every way? No I haven't. I've given reasons why it can be better, that doesn't mean I think it's better in every way. If you want to see it that way, go ahead.

Listen we could argue until the cows come home about this, I could give you many reasons why buying is better, but like everything, it would by down to personal circumstances.

For me I bought, then made a couple of good decisions in the boom and as a result I have my mortgage paid off at 34.

I rented for many years and never thought it was dead money, it served its purpose for me before I had the urge to buy and settle down. I still think it was the best decision I ever made.

I think having kids put the urge to buy into my head though.

Rezident

Fr_Fitzexactly wrote: »

We all know what a property boom and bust looks like now as we've seen it happen

We know the government did all it could to keep the good times rolling and tried its best to suppress any bad news about an impending crash

We know now that if you see slapped up houses being sold for mad money and if you have the bank battering down the door so that they may please give you a loan that's a good sign you need to stay put and don't borrow anything.

Thats all grand but if you were suddenly plonked into a tiny rented overpriced apartment or a crowded parent's house in 2004/2005 without your memory of what happened next and all you can see is the prices going up and up I bet you too would be tempted to run up to Bank of Ireland and get a 110% mortgage before property will seem permanently out of your reach.

For a time around 2003 in the UK there was a trend for people to hold off with buying a house thinking there was going to be a crash, these people had great forsight but a lot of them thought the crash was going to happen that year, not in 4/5 years time. A good few of these probably gave up waiting for the crash to happen and bought a year or two after.

It doesn't help to start calling people who bought during the boom idiots and morons. It might have been apparent that a crash was going to happen but nobody knew exactly when. These people had a life and a job and they probably weren't economists. They didn't need to know loads about the economy, things were good and they were making money. We all have great ideas about how to better the economy now but that wasn't the case at the height of the boom. I'd say a lot of those berating people who bought during the boom were too busy watching pokemon to even notice what was going on but they're experts on all things economy now.

But for many people getting into debt for half a million quid for a small house that may be worth less than half that in a few years time is idiotic. Just because lots of people were doing it does not make it ok. Plus it ruins the property market for the rest of us who want to buy a house once market prices are in line with intrinsic values. You can blame the government and the banks and the regulators and everyone else all you want, but who bought the houses at the idiotic prices? At the end of the day, it was their fault.

Galwayguy35

Rezident wrote: »

But for many people getting into debt for half a million quid for a small house that may be worth less than half that in a few years time is idiotic. Just because lots of people were doing it does not make it ok. Plus it ruins the property market for the rest of us who want to buy a house once market prices are in line with intrinsic values. You can blame the government and the banks and the regulators and everyone else all you want, but who bought the houses at the idiotic prices? At the end of the day, it was their fault.

Yeah and it's easy for you in 2013 to call them idiotic now that we all know what happened.

Czarcasm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah and it's easy for you in 2013 to call them idiotic now that we all know what happened.

In fairness GG there was a whole stink of "emperors new clothes" off the whole boom times when anyone who said "ehh, stop?", were shouted down because everyone was enjoying the party and nobody gave a thought to who was eventually going to be picking up the tab.

Now it's come time to pay the piper and everyone is passing the buck and nobody wants to take responsibility for the mess, so you'll hear people saying "we're all in this together lads"...


No, no we're not actually, but those of us who were humble in the boom times are just as humble in the bust times, and the likes of the celtic cubs and cougars still have a woeful smell of if they got an invite to a party again in the morning- they'd be gone like a shot and we'd find ourselves going through the motions again.


Economics are cyclical, but the world economy took a battering in the 80's, took a while to recover in the 90's, then got hit with the dot com bubble near the end of the 90's and and once it got over the millenium bug, it went on an all out off yer face party that lasted again nearly a decade. Even now there are the stragglers and hangers on that don't want to believe the party is over, but there you go.

Unfortunately it's time to take some personal responsibility as Germany are calling time on Ireland's tab.

kraggy

April O Neill wrote: »

Of course they'll increase eventually. To boom-time levels, adjusting for inflation? Not for a long, LONG time, and hopefully never, with apologies to people who wish they would.

They always come back up. Sometimes takes a long time, but then again a standard mortgage taken out in 06 or 08 will take a long time to pay off. But by then the average salary will be something ridiculous like 150,000 per annum. In which case the monthly repayments will seem like today's 300 euro.

And then the house is owned (ceteris paribus).

MMAGirl

I find when people here you own a house they get all "ah, dont worry, everything will be ok, sure it could have happened to anybody" in that smug condescending sort of way.

Example of it only last week.
then when the girl mentioned that her mortgage on her 3 bed house was €400PM
and she would have it all paid off in a few years the look on their faces went to disgust. They hated her. People are strange.

Cienciano

anncoates wrote: »

Always though if an alien asked me to sum up property cycles, I'd say:

BOOM: **** boasting about buying houses

BUST: **** boasting about not buying houses

Brilliant post, sums it up perfectly.

April O Neill

kraggy wrote: »

They always come back up. Sometimes takes a long time, but then again a standard mortgage taken out in 06 or 08 will take a long time to pay off. But by then the average salary will be something ridiculous like 150,000 per annum. In which case the monthly repayments will seem like today's 300 euro.

And then the house is owned (ceteris paribus).

They will indeed. But then they might dip in value again, these things being cyclical. I doubt they come back to boomtime values for a long time, maybe not even in the lifetime of some of the boomtime buyers. And I hope they don't, it was madness!

I have massive sympathy for people who were unfortunate enough that their "settling down, looking to buy a house for their family" life period happened during the boom years. Wannabe property kings, speculating on houses, hoping to flip them, pushed up prices for people who didn't want to buy houses to sell on a few years later, but actually just wanted a home for their family.

Chop Chop

April O Neill wrote: »

They will indeed. But then they might dip in value again, these things being cyclical. I doubt they come back to boomtime values for a long time, maybe not even in the lifetime of some of the boomtime buyers. And I hope they don't, it was madness!

I have massive sympathy for people who were unfortunate enough that their "settling down, looking to buy a house for their family" life period happened during the boom years. Wannabe property kings, speculating on houses, hoping to flip them, pushed up prices for people who didn't want to buy houses to sell on a few years later, but actually just wanted a home for their family.

I have to say, I agree with you on that, I never wanted my house as an investment. It was always going to be a safe place that I brought my kids up in. I never planned to move after I bought it.

Chop Chop

MMAGirl wrote: »

I find when people here you own a house they get all "ah, dont worry, everything will be ok, sure it could have happened to anybody" in that smug condescending sort of way.

Example of it only last week.
then when the girl mentioned that her mortgage on her 3 bed house was €400PM
and she would have it all paid off in a few years the look on their faces went to disgust. They hated her. People are strange.

I have a lot of jealous family that hate my guts because I have been prudent with my money.

Most of them are struggling and I am not, so this pisses them off.

MadsL

anncoates wrote: »

Would renting and saving in parallel to eventually buy a house be financially much different to buying a house in the first place?

Depends on what the markets do. Investing in shares in the 80, dotcom and Celtic Tiger era would have made a lot of difference assuming you got out before Black Friday, the dotcom collapse, and the Celtic Unicorn.

gallag wrote: »

It would cost me as much to rent my house as it would to buy it, my neighbour rents and pays about the same as my mortgage.

Rent vs Mortgage figures per month are NOT how you judge it. Look at rental yields verses prices. Then decide.

kraggy wrote: »

They always come back up. Sometimes takes a long time, but then again a standard mortgage taken out in 06 or 08 will take a long time to pay off. But by then the average salary will be something ridiculous like 150,000 per annum. In which case the monthly repayments will seem like today's 300 euro.

And then the house is owned (ceteris paribus).

*cough* Japan *cough*


I warned at least 3 collegues not to buy, I was roundly laughed at for what I was paying in rent. I figure I avoided at least a net €100-150k loss by renting.

Bullseye1

I've no interest in being a landlord but without them there would be no private property for those looking to rent. Local authorities would have to provide vastly greater numbers and we would all be paying alot more taxes.

I'd like to see figures but not everyone spent anywhere near €500,000 on their family home. It seems to be a favourite figure among some posters on here.

Chop Chop

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I've no interest in being a landlord but without them there would be no private property for those looking to rent. Local authorities would have to provide vastly greater numbers and we would all be paying alot more taxes.

I'd like to see figures but not everyone spent anywhere near €500,000 on their family home. It seems to be a favourite figure among some posters on here.

No it's more like €350 to €400k

Bullseye1

anncoates wrote: »

Always though if an alien asked me to sum up property cycles, I'd say:

BOOM: **** boasting about buying houses

BUST: **** boasting about not buying houses

Probably the best post I've seen on the subject and so true.

skyhighflyer

Joe Hart wrote: »

You took a huge risk and you still pissed away 200K that you didn't need to.

The difference in someone buying in 2006 for 400K and in 2012 for 200K is about 400K in mortgage repayments. Rental payments for those 6 years might amount to 80K. A person renting is far better placed to take job opportunties in Ireland and abroad.

This post is a prime of example of Irish people being horrible to each other for no good reason. "He bought a house during the boom and is actually HAPPY? Well, we'll see about that :mad:".

Cannot understand this at all.

Kidchameleon

I got completely whipped by the recession and I still look down on renters.

skyhighflyer

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I got completely whipped by the recession and I still look down on renters.

If you're wondering why you got whipped by the recession, the clue's in your post.

NuckingFacker

April O Neill wrote: »

Of course they'll increase eventually. To boom-time levels, adjusting for inflation? Not for a long, LONG time, and hopefully never, with apologies to people who wish they would.

Very true. Have a look at japans property price movements. We're facing the same. I buy to let, on a fixed ratio of price/income. Havn't seen anything for sale to meet the equation for a long time, neither during the boom or now. Reality is a good bit lower than prices are at the moment even. There's further drops to come. Followed by a long flat period and then slow, slow growth. By long, I'd guess a decade or more. 10x annual rent or gtfo. So av €650*12*10=€78K. That's for a 3 bed average house in an estate outside Dublin. For Dublin, €850*12*10=€95kish or €1000*12*10=€120k as an average for a 3 / 4 bed. Unrealistic? Wanna bet? Anything else is la-la land as an investment as is being proven by the current travails.

Chop Chop

skyhighflyer wrote: »

This post is a prime of example of Irish people being horrible to each other for no good reason. "He bought a house during the boom and is actually HAPPY? Well, we'll see about that :mad:".

Cannot understand this at all.

The "fūck them out on the street parade" always have this argument that if you stopped paying your rent, what would happen?

The difference with a mortgage is the fact that if you hand the keys back, you still owe what you paid, so how are you supposed to find somewhere else to live, pay rent, and service a mortgage on a house that the bank has taken off you.

This is why the banks are doing deals, because the government don't want a huge amount of people on the council list.

And fair play, it makes no sense to fùck a family on the street and then ask them to pay for the home they were fúcked out of.