Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

space_man · 11-04-2013 03:20PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

So, depending on the circumstances, you support the bombing of innocent people? Good to know. Carry on

the killing/bombing of any human/living creature is a tragedy.
would you support the bombing of Dresden?

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 03:21PM

Nodin wrote: »

at pains to ram home some justification for thatchers stance on the ANC, but seem to have made no mention of her support for Pinochet whatsoever.

It would seem that fighting a brutal avowedly racist regime is more worthy of your ire than coups, torture and death squads.

Plenty of people have brought up her support of Pinochet though I was more disturbed by her support of the Khmer Rouge (about a million times worse). I just agree with her labelling the ANC as terrorists

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 03:21PM

space_man wrote: »

the killing/bombing of any human/living creature is a tragedy.
would you support the bombing of Dresden?

What, again? What have the Germans done this time?

Chuck Stone · 11-04-2013 03:24PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I just agree with her labelling the ANC as terrorists

Then you accept that SA was a state that terrorised the majority of its population in its quest to maintain the privileges of those who controlled it. SA was a terrorist state.

Spook_ie · 11-04-2013 03:25PM

Nodin wrote: »

You're comparing a small splinter group operating in the wake of an agreement by both sides of the confict to the situation of a group with widespread support fighting a fundamentally evil regime.....

The regime in SA was "perceived" to be "illegitimate, dictatorial" and "oppressive"?

Whatever you do, don't sidestep the question!

Anyways, something a lot of people seem to forget about the 1970/80 early 90s was the coldwar, SA and Zaire was fighting Angolan rebels backed by Cuba. In fact Mandella has credited the Angolan struggle and the intervention of Cuba as being a direct attribute towards his freedom

Nelson Mandella Speech July 26th 1991

"The Cuban people hold a special place in the hearts of the people of Africa. The Cuban internationalists have made a contribution to African independence, freedom and justice unparalleled for its principled and selfless character - We in Africa are used to being victims of countries wanting to carve up our territory or subvert our sovereignty. It is unparalleled in African history to have another people rise to the defence of one of us - The defeat of the apartheid army was an inspiration to the struggling people in South Africa! Without the defeat of Cuito Cuanavale our organizations would not have been unbanned! The defeat of the racist army at Cuito Cuanavale has made it possible for me to be here today! Cuito Cuanavale was a milestone in the history of the struggle for southern African liberation"

Also SA was at the time in possession of 6 fully functional thermonuclear devices, in fact SA remains the only country to date that voluntarily dismantled its nuclear arsenal.

So it's very difficult to take any article published without putting it into the overall context of Africa as a whole.

Nodin · 11-04-2013 03:25PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Plenty of people have brought up her support of Pinochet
.

Yet it warranted ne'er a mutter from you, it would seem.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

..........I just agree with her labelling the ANC as terrorists

Yes, using asymmetric warfare against one of the more unpleasant regimes to have surfaced in the last 100 or so years really needs to be singled out for condemnation.

Nodin · 11-04-2013 03:27PM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Whatever you do, don't sidestep the question!
.

The Omagh bomb was not justified by the circumstances. Just ask for bigger font if you don't get it this time. I might add that as the large civillian casualties were the result of an error, you'd be better off having enniskillin as an example.

space_man · 11-04-2013 03:31PM

Nodin wrote: »

It is, alas, now a term so devalued its meaningless. It's essentially used as short-hand for "evil bastard we hate" by whoever happens to be about at the time, particularily since 2001.

and if they cant find any terrorists to be had, then there must be a few WMDs tobe getting on with.:eek:

space_man · 11-04-2013 03:34PM

Nodin wrote: »

The Omagh bomb was not justified by the circumstances. Just ask for bigger font if you don't get it this time. I might add that as the large civillian casualties were the result of an error, you'd be better off having enniskillin as an example.

personally i prefer The Brighton one.

LordSutch · 11-04-2013 03:35PM

Margaret got to number ten,
Even though she was a hen,

Kinnock failed to run amok,
Scargill pushed into the muck,

Maggie champion of the City,
Brighton bomb a dirty tricky,

Mrs Thatch my number one,
Denis wants another Rum,

Thatcher hero of our time,
Do not cross the picket line,

Finchley town will for ever be,
Mrs Thatchers joy and glee,

Michael Foot another foe
Labour party far too slow,

Derek Hatton loud and dim,
Now our Denis wants a gin,

Mrs Thatch will never be,
Argintinas cup of tea!

RIP Mrs Thatch :-))

summerskin · 11-04-2013 03:39PM

space_man wrote: »

personally i prefer The Brighton one.

and would you find it acceptable if an englishman said he "preferred" Bloody Sunday?

karma_ · 11-04-2013 03:45PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Margaret got to number ten,
Even though she was a hen,

Kinnock failed to run amok,
Scargill pushed into the muck,

Maggie champion of the City,
Brighton bomb a dirty tricky,

Mrs Thatch my number one,
Denis wants another Rum,

Thatcher hero of our time,
Do not cross the picket line,

Finchley town will for ever be,
Mrs Thatchers joy and glee,

Michael Foot another foe
Labour party far too slow,

Derek Hatton loud and dim,
Now our Denis wants a gin,

Mrs Thatch will never be,
Argintinas cup of tea!

RIP Mrs Thatch :-))

The most cringe inducing post of boards today. And we got it twice, how nice.

Spook_ie · 11-04-2013 03:45PM

space_man wrote: »

personally i prefer The Brighton one.

summerskin wrote: »

and would you find it acceptable if an englishman said he "preferred" Bloody Sunday?

That was very quick

karma_ · 11-04-2013 03:47PM

summerskin wrote: »

and would you find it acceptable if an englishman said he "preferred" Bloody Sunday?

Of course not, and you are correct to call it out.

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 03:49PM

Nodin wrote: »

Yet it warranted ne'er a mutter from you, it would seem.

Yes, using asymmetric warfare against one of the more unpleasant regimes to have surfaced in the last 100 or so years really needs to be singled out for condemnation.

What are you on about? Just because I agree with her condemnation of the ANC as terrorists doesn't mean I agree with every bloody thing the woman did

LordSutch · 11-04-2013 03:49PM

karma_ wrote: »

The most cringe inducing post of boards today. And we got it twice, how nice.

You can compose one too if you like!

Fratton Fred · 11-04-2013 03:54PM

space_man wrote: »

but if you care to read the article it claims she did so not out of any sympathy or compassion for the suffering of abuse of the indigenous black population, but out of an economic ideological stand.

it's actually perverse when you consider it.

I agree, it is perverse, but it does give a very clear picture of her relationship with south Africa and sets the record straight on her views on apartheid.

Having read that, would you say she was for or against apartheid?

Spook_ie · 11-04-2013 04:11PM

Interesting to peruse SAPA news views

http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/terrorist-anc-hails-thatcher-1.1497323#.UWbPnTc4HKU

http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/thatcher-played-positive-role-in-sa-1.1497192#.UWbQwjc4HKU

http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/thatcher-s-death-devastating-buthelezi-1.1497193#.UWbRYzc4HKU

scdublin · 11-04-2013 04:14PM

I understand why people are still so angry about some of her actions, but celebrating a person's death is just wrong to me.

space_man · 11-04-2013 04:20PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I agree, it is perverse, but it does give a very clear picture of her relationship with south Africa and sets the record straight on her views on apartheid.

Having read that, would you say she was for or against apartheid?

i don't think she gave a rat's arse about the black pop. of Sth. Africa. if apartheid facilitated trade with them that was fine by her.
if fact she would probably have supported the return of slavery if it meant better trade-links.

extra gravy · 11-04-2013 04:21PM

old hippy wrote: »

No, that kind of what if and straw (wo)man type of thing is not interesting in the slightest.

You're right, it's far more interesting to sit back and criticise rather than offer viable alternatives which justify the criticism.

Fratton Fred · 11-04-2013 05:10PM

space_man wrote: »

i don't think she gave a rat's arse about the black pop. of Sth. Africa. if apartheid facilitated trade with them that was fine by her.
if fact she would probably have supported the return of slavery if it meant better trade-links.

You have no evidence to support that and thus far have no evidence that she was anti Irish.

Good work, try not to be so quick to jump to conclusions in future.

space_man · 11-04-2013 05:19PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You have no evidence to support that and thus far have no evidence that she was anti Irish.

Good work, try not to be so quick to jump to conclusions in future.

Aye! with friends like that ............;)

Weathering · 11-04-2013 05:55PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Wonderful contribution to the thread. Any other fantasies you'd like to share?

Hey kaiser..nice to see you back. Remember yesterday you were singing the British army praises in relation to NI.. You said "terrorists are people who attack/kill civilians instead of soldiers" I alluded you to the fact of Bloody Sunday in Derry amongst others. The British army also colluded with unionist terrorist groups which bombed Dublin and Monaghan. By your own definition the british army are terrorists why won't you respond to this.

To top it all off you have the audacity to come in here today and give out about "terrorism" while ignoring British terrorismacts commited. It's almost like you refuse to accept or believe it. One might say bigot

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 06:59PM

Weathering wrote: »

Hey kaiser..nice to see you back. Remember yesterday you were singing the British army praises in relation to NI..

No I don't remember that, for the precise reason that it didn't happen, I neither said nor implied anything of the kind. So you'll understand why I ignore your posts (this one notwithstanding)

Courtesy Flush · 11-04-2013 07:12PM

I must be way behind but I just read Morriseys tribute to Thatcher , well said

"Thatcher is remembered as The Iron Lady only because she possessed completely negative traits such as persistent stubbornness and a determined refusal to listen to others"

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/08/margaret-thatcher-dead-morrissey-attacks-barbaric-pm_n_3039250.html

K-9 · 11-04-2013 07:14PM

FanadMan wrote: »

Ok, she screwed up relations with the North for years and f*ucked over the miners in the UK. Who really cares now? She is dead - give it up folks!

Some people like to talk about stuff that happened, I think it's even a subject in school, some new thing called History.

K-9 · 11-04-2013 07:23PM

Nodin wrote: »

...they were fighting one of the most evil regimes in the world post WWII. It was a nonsense to use politicised terms like "terrorist" to describe them, unless the purpose was to denigrate and sideline.

It was the propaganda war, the IRA was depicted as terrorists so Mandella was too.

delthedriver · 11-04-2013 08:30PM

Baroness Thatcher was an elderly lady, daughter, wife, mother & grandmother.

The tone of Pro IRA , Anti British feeling in this thread is disgusting.

It is completely disrespectful to dance on anyone's grave.

A little respect ,please.

Lingua Franca · 11-04-2013 08:38PM

Oh well, when you put it like that it totally washes away everything she ever did to make people angry at her.

You might want to go back and read the OP.

Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

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