Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

Remmy · 11-04-2013 01:59PM

Sorry if it was mentioned before but does anyone have any references for Thatcher calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist? Was she Pro Apartheid?

space_man · 11-04-2013 02:19PM

i 'ld love to know what she made of the Irish.
My guess is she saw us as "white negroes" or savages of some sort. i can just imagine her saying "one can never trust the irish, they are devoid of breeding & intellect".

dos anybody have any references?

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 02:21PM

space_man wrote: »

i 'ld love to know what she made of the Irish.
My guess is she saw us as "white negroes" or savages of some sort. i can just imagine her saying "one can never trust the irish, they are devoid of breeding & intellect".

dos anybody have any references?

Wonderful contribution to the thread. Any other fantasies you'd like to share?

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 02:27PM

Remmy wrote: »

Sorry if it was mentioned before but does anyone have any references for Thatcher calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist? Was she Pro Apartheid?

She was probably more anti-ANC rather than pro-apartheid, as the ANC's militant wing MK was a terrorist organisation. Here's an article asserting that she helped end apartheid

Nodin · 11-04-2013 02:28PM

Remmy wrote: »

Sorry if it was mentioned before but does anyone have any references for Thatcher calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist? Was she Pro Apartheid?

She resisted sanctions and referred to the anc as being "terrorists".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-apologises-for-thatcher-apartheid-policies-413569.html

space_man · 11-04-2013 02:33PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Wonderful contribution to the thread. Any other fantasies you'd like to share?

there's nothing fantastical about it.
i would love to know what her opinion of Ireland and its' people were?
is that so difficult to comprehend?

Fratton Fred · 11-04-2013 02:36PM

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-apartheid-mandela

Funny how everyone missed this article.

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 02:36PM

Nodin wrote: »

She resisted sanctions and referred to the anc as being "terrorists".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-apologises-for-thatcher-apartheid-policies-413569.html

No need for the inverted commas, they were a terrorist organisation (e.g. Church St. bombing)

AEDIC · 11-04-2013 02:37PM

space_man wrote: »

i 'ld love to know what she made of the Irish.
My guess is she saw us as "white negroes" or savages of some sort. i can just imagine her saying "one can never trust the irish, they are devoid of breeding & intellect".

dos anybody have any references?

Do you?

Nodin · 11-04-2013 02:38PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-apartheid-mandela

Funny how everyone missed this article.

Its an opinion piece. Some of us have our own.

Fratton Fred · 11-04-2013 02:41PM

Nodin wrote: »

Its an opinion piece. Some of us have our own.

I guess the picture (in the notoriously pro Thatcher Gaurdian) is photoshopped as well.

Nodin · 11-04-2013 02:41PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

No need for the inverted commas, they were a terrorist organisation (e.g. Church St. bombing)

...they were fighting one of the most evil regimes in the world post WWII. It was a nonsense to use politicised terms like "terrorist" to describe them, unless the purpose was to denigrate and sideline.

space_man · 11-04-2013 02:44PM

AEDIC wrote: »

Do you?

ony this Belfast Telegraph article,

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/thatcher-why-dont-the-irish-like-us-even-the-germans-are-friendly-28697248.html

Nodin · 11-04-2013 02:46PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I guess the picture (in the notoriously pro Thatcher Gaurdian) is photoshopped as well.

And what does photo prove, Fred?

Look - here everybody is smiling. There was obviously nothing but affection and no policy difference whatever between either of these lovable scamps.
http://s0.jrnl.ie/media/2011/06/thathaugh-310x415.jpg
Its a photo of them shaking hands and smiling, so its perfectly logical to draw that kind of conclusion from it.

space_man · 11-04-2013 02:46PM

Nodin wrote: »

...they were fighting one of the most evil regimes in the world post WWII. It was a nonsense to use politicised terms like "terrorist" to describe them, unless the purpose was to denigrate and sideline.

they were Freedom Fighters seeking to overthrow an illegitimate, dictatorial oppressive regime. the use of force was fully justified.

AEDIC · 11-04-2013 02:47PM

space_man wrote: »

ony this Belfast Telegraph article,

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/thatcher-why-dont-the-irish-like-us-even-the-germans-are-friendly-28697248.html

And where in that does it support or even suggest the words you 'imagined her using'?

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 02:50PM

space_man wrote: »

they were Freedom Fighters seeking to overthrow an illegitimate, dictatorial oppressive regime. the use of force was fully justified.

Would you say the same of the Omagh bombing?

Nodin · 11-04-2013 02:51PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Would you say the same of the Omagh bombing?

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused here. How did we get to the Omagh bombing from the ANC resisting Apartheid?

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 02:57PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused here. How did we get to the Omagh bombing from the ANC resisting Apartheid?

Both Omagh and Church St. were bombings by terrorist organisations. Wonder where you people draw the line

Grandpa Hassan · 11-04-2013 02:57PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused here. How did we get to the Omagh bombing from the ANC resisting Apartheid?

I think Kaiser is trying to explore what is your definition of a terrorist.

Nodin · 11-04-2013 02:59PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Both Omagh and Church St. were bombings by terrorist organisations. Wonder where you people draw the line

I'm sorry, but before we continue I have to ask - are you seriously questioning armed resistance to Apartheid South Africa?

Spook_ie · 11-04-2013 03:01PM

space_man wrote: »

they were Freedom Fighters seeking to overthrow an illegitimate, dictatorial oppressive regime. the use of force was fully justified.

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Would you say the same of the Omagh bombing?

Nodin wrote: »

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused here. How did we get to the Omagh bombing from the ANC resisting Apartheid?

I believe the infered question is are the Omagh bombing perpetrators terrorists or freedom fighters.

Would people view those that planted the bombs in Omagh in the same league as the ANC in that they are tring to overthrow a perceived illegitimate, dictatorial oppressive regime.

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 03:06PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'm sorry, but before we continue I have to ask - are you seriously questioning armed resistance to Apartheid South Africa?

Nope, just the bombing of innocent people. I suppose it's quite easy to get blase about atrocities that occurred some time ago in a far off place

Nodin · 11-04-2013 03:08PM

Spook_ie wrote: »

I believe the infered question is are the Omagh bombing perpetrators terrorists or freedom fighters.

Would people view those that planted the bombs in Omagh in the same league as the ANC in that they are tring to overthrow a perceived illegitimate, dictatorial oppressive regime.

You're comparing a small splinter group operating in the wake of an agreement by both sides of the confict to the situation of a group with widespread support fighting a fundamentally evil regime.....

The regime in SA was "perceived" to be "illegitimate, dictatorial" and "oppressive"?

space_man · 11-04-2013 03:10PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-apartheid-mandela

Funny how everyone missed this article.

but if you care to read the article it claims she did so not out of any sympathy or compassion for the suffering of abuse of the indigenous black population, but out of an economic ideological stand.

it's actually perverse when you consider it.

space_man · 11-04-2013 03:13PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Would you say the same of the Omagh bombing?

totally different circumstances.
silly to try and compare the two imo.

Nodin · 11-04-2013 03:13PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Nope, just the bombing of innocent people. I suppose it's quite easy to get blase about atrocities that occurred some time ago in a far off place

"blase"? You seem to think armed conflict is some form of party-game of paintball.

You also seem a bit selective about what you like to condemn, I note. You're at pains to ram home some justification for thatchers stance on the ANC, but seem to have made no mention of her support for Pinochet whatsoever.

It would seem that fighting a brutal avowedly racist regime is more worthy of your ire than coups, torture and death squads.

--Kaiser-- · 11-04-2013 03:14PM

space_man wrote: »

totally different circumstances.
silly to try and compare the two imo.

So, depending on the circumstances, you support the bombing of innocent people? Good to know. Carry on

Nodin · 11-04-2013 03:18PM

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I think Kaiser is trying to explore what is your definition of a terrorist.

It is, alas, now a term so devalued its meaningless. It's essentially used as short-hand for "evil bastard we hate" by whoever happens to be about at the time, particularily since 2001.

Chuck Stone · 11-04-2013 03:19PM

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I think Kaiser is trying to explore what is your definition of a terrorist.

It's a useless word.

The state and its useful idiots in the media deem any challenge on its monopoly on violence 'terrorism' despite how violent the state itself is.

According to Weber, the state is that entity which "upholds the claim to the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force in the enforcement of its order." Weber's conception of the state as holding a monopoly on force has figured prominently in philosophy of law and political philosophy in the twentieth century.

http://books.google.ie/books?id=jNc4mc_MYdIC&pg=PA9&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=monopoly&f=false

Maggie Thatcher death discussion thread - Mod rules in first post

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