Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:31AM

MadsL wrote: »

She would prefer Given Birth First Name + Irish translated surname. This respects the language and allows her a "personality" in her name rather than just another common first name. What is wrong with that?

What kind of idiot would I be to turn down a place at a great school because they inconsistently sometimes try to change pupils names. Some pupils accept it. some resist it, some teachers accept the kids wishes others are rude feckers and make an issue out of it.

seems like an ego thing. Tell her to suck it up, learn her lessons, and move on. The school is not trying to change names - they are following the GAELSCOIL dialect. She can call herself anything she wants after that. Princess, Petal, Precious, whatever

the passport thing is a non-runner.

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:31AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

I am just wondering how everybody else is the school is getting on with being called the irish version of their name? Or is it just this one person that has the problem.

It is completely inconsistant across pupils and individual teachers.

As I said people have been called the Irish version of names in schools in Ireland for decades.

...and belted with leather straps too.

The fact that the child is in a SPECIFICALLY IRISH school you would expect them to be calling the child by her Irish name.

See, there's the thing. SHE DOESN'T HAVE AN IRISH NAME!! She has a name that the school think should be translated into Irish. It is not an Irish name by origin, but Hebrew. Except a version of it has now become popular.

It's like going into a specialty tea shop and crying because they won't serve you coffee..:D:D

Nope, it is complaining because they will not let you chose from the menu and insist you drink Jasmine when you prefer a cup of Darjeeling!!

Alun · 10-04-2013 11:31AM

MadsL wrote: »

I am beginning to be concerned that if/when she applies for a US Green card it will be a nightmare with the FOUR different versions of her name floating around on various bits of documentation. Bit absurd at this stage.

On a similar vein, I'm English but my parents, for reasons best known to themselves, decided to give me a Welsh first name, Alun, the Welsh form of Alan. It hasn't really been a problem for most of my life, but the moment I moved to Ireland, various companies / public bodies decided I'd clearly misspelt it and then 'corrected' it to Alan for me. Yo wouldn't believe the hassle I've had in some instances getting it changed.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:35AM

MadsL wrote: »

I am beginning to be concerned that if/when she applies for a US Green card it will be a nightmare with the FOUR different versions of her name floating around on various bits of documentation. Bit absurd at this stage.

why, did you incorrectly fill out the passport and birthcert wrong.

ballsymchugh · 10-04-2013 11:37AM

MadsL wrote: »

She would prefer Given Birth First Name + Irish translated surname. This respects the language and allows her a "personality" in her name rather than just another common first name. What is wrong with that?

then call the school and tell them. it bugs your daughter, and in turn it bugs you. a few minutes on the phone will sort it, but you won't because, as you put it a long long time ago, 'teenagers eh?'

i fully agree with you, she shouldn't be called something that isn't even an irish version of her name (since you've pointed out many times already that there isn't one anyway) but this thread has run it's course.

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:37AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

seems like an ego thing. Tell her to suck it up, learn her lessons, and move on.

An a clip round the ear for daring to have an opinion on her own name.

The school is not trying to change names - they are following the GAELSCOIL dialect.

I suggest you look that word up, it doesn't mean what you think it means.

She can call herself anything she wants after that. Princess, Petal, Precious, whatever

Explain to me why changing her name is so so important again? I missed that. Some circumcision of ego in the school system is it?

the passport thing is a non-runner.

Explain how she does not need two years of common usage to change her passport??

If the name to appear on the passport differs from the name listed on your previous Irish passport, other than by marriage, you will be required to produce documentary evidence of the constant use of that name for at least two years. It will be necessary to produce examples of such usage (e.g. tax/social welfare documents, bank statements, driver’s license and insurance details, medical card, PPSN/SSN card, school registration/reports, etc.). The name listed on these documents must match exactly the name to appear on the passport.

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=38790

ballsymchugh · 10-04-2013 11:38AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

why, did you incorrectly fill out the passport and birthcert wrong.

so it was filled out right?! :pac:

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:38AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

why, did you incorrectly fill out the passport and birthcert wrong.

Could you at least try to make your trolling funny.

Wiggles88 · 10-04-2013 11:39AM

HondaSami wrote: »

Honestly school records are not going to make a difference, she will be travelling on her passport, the one you got for her, her details on here is what matters.
Her birth cert and passport are the same?

Actually they can be, a friend of mine had great trouble sorting out her visa to America precisely because they didnt believe that her school records were hers (the Irish version of her name looks quite different to her actual name)

reprazant · 10-04-2013 11:39AM

Cool, the school will also change her tax/social welfare documents, bank statements, driver’s license and insurance details, medical card and PPSN/SSN card.

ballsymchugh · 10-04-2013 11:40AM

Wiggles88 wrote: »

Actually they can be, a friend of mine had great trouble sorting out her visa to America precisely because they didnt believe that her school records were hers (the Irish version of her name looks quite different to her actual name)

commissioner of oaths sorts that problem out.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:40AM

MadsL wrote: »

An a clip round the ear for daring to have an opinion on her own name.

I suggest you look that word up, it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Explain to me why changing her name is so so important again? I missed that. Some circumcision of ego in the school system is it?

Explain how she does not need two years of common usage to change her passport??

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=38790

why would you be changing the name on her passport?

did the school change her tax records too, her medical records, etc.

them gaelscoils - ya can't be up to them. LOL

Cavehill Red · 10-04-2013 11:42AM

mitosis wrote: »

OP, you need to reign in a little. Irish is given recognition by the Constitution as the national and first official language of the Republic of Ireland (with English being a second official language).

So, effectively, the correct form of your child's name is the Irish form.

This is absolutely not true. The correct form of his child's name is that on the birth certificate, according to the law of the land, unless changed by deed poll.

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:43AM

HondaSami wrote: »

Honestly school records are not going to make a difference, she will be travelling on her passport, the one you got for her, her details on here is what matters.
Her birth cert and passport are the same?

At the moment.

She would prefer to change it in future to her Irish surname. Not her makey up "Irish" first name. In total there would be four versions of her name that are on official documents if that happens.

Dan_Solo · 10-04-2013 11:43AM

Taco Chips wrote: »

Gross exaggeration much?

Your name is a small part of your identity. Much more important is your personality, who you're friends are etc... I don't see that being "swallowed" nor is she being made to feel "ashamed" of them.

It's a traditional thing. In primary school we were all addressed by our Irish names on the role. It was absolutely no big deal in the slightest. Most of us liked hearing the alternative. Added another layer to our identity if anything.

If it's not important then the school should have no problem using her name, not any random Irish name.
Face it, this wouldn't happen to Nigerian, Malaysian or Romanian.

Wiggles88 · 10-04-2013 11:45AM

ballsymchugh wrote: »

commissioner of oaths sorts that problem out.

It was to do with her work/American bank account, she couldnt get her visa without sorting all that out but, understandably, the Americans thought it was fishy that she was using documents under two very different names, took a lot of time and stressed phone calls to sort it out.

Amalgam · 10-04-2013 11:46AM

Had a teacher that would Irish-ify the name and put: O' in front of both the Given name and Surname, for just about everyone in the class. You were getting an O' whether you liked it or not.

RIP Mr. Powell.

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:47AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

why would you be changing the name on her passport?

did the school change her tax records too, her medical records, etc.

them gaelscoils - ya can't be up to them. LOL

Are you trying REALLY REALLY hard not to understand this.

She had two surnames at birth plus a birth given name. Throw in Irish versions and you could play a fun game to get 20 odd combinations of those.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:47AM

MadsL wrote: »

At the moment.

She would prefer to change it in future to her Irish surname. Not her makey up "Irish" first name. In total there would be four versions of her name that are on official documents if that happens.

oh for gods sake.
you go on about teachers calling her by her irish name

yet now it seems she is not happy with her birth cert, passport, "make up" first name. You're getting all jumbled.

Im assuming the school wasn't there when she was born to make sure you filled out her name in Irish

Im assuming the school wasn't there when you filled out her passport details as per her birthcert.

If so, you're fine.

If as I suspect its a case of "ego" and "cool names" and wants to be changed then deal with it.

You've already been told that her name in the gaelscoil - her irish version of the name - is not relevant when applying for a passport

I think its yoiu doing the trolling now.

SparkySpitfire · 10-04-2013 11:48AM

If you don't agree with the policy of a school as it has been laid out, do not send your child there, simple as.

Ignorance of this policy can't be used as an excuse to rail against it after you've enrolled her. If you did your research on the school, you'd have known they do this. By enrolling her you've agreed to accept the school's policy.

Your don't have a choice in how the school carries out its business. You do however, have a choice of which school to send your child to.

And it's absolutely fair enough that you wanted to give her the best education, and that the best education just happened to come from a Gaeolscoil. But you can't pick and choose, you chose the Gaeolscoil with their naming policy and their better education standards over an English-speaking school with their not as high standards of education.

I think you got the better end of the deal, just accept this and move on. She's not being bullied by teachers if this happens to everyone. Choose your battles, save your energy, there's going to be a time during her secondary school career that she really will need your support, don't waste your efforts on something like this, there's bigger fish to fry IMO.

Dan_Solo · 10-04-2013 11:51AM

hoodwinked wrote: »

if she wanted to be addressed by the english version go to a school that will do that, don't choose a school and then give out about what they do after the fact.

This sounds suspiciously like you'd end up with only people with Irish names being allowed int Gaelscoil.
How inclusive of you.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:51AM

ill make it simple

does her passport match her birth cert - if so, all her legal documents i.e. medical, tax, etc will be fine

if so, don't worry that the school is calling her by her irish name.

but from your last post I now think she's not happy with any of her names - first, last or middle.

suck it up and stop blaming the school.

:rolleyes:

MadsL · 10-04-2013 11:51AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

oh for gods sake.
you go on about teachers calling her by her irish name

yet now it seems she is not happy with her birth cert, passport, "make up" first name. You're getting all jumbled.

Im assuming the school wasn't there when she was born to make sure you filled out her name in Irish

Im assuming the school wasn't there when you filled out her passport details as per her birthcert.

If so, you're fine.

If as I suspect its a case of "ego" and "cool names" and wants to be changed then deal with it.

You've already been told that her name in the gaelscoil - her irish version of the name - is not relevant when applying for a passport

I think its yoiu doing the trolling now.

Let's say your name is Jack Murphy, are you trying to tell me that Jack cannot call himself Jack Ó Murchadh if he wishes, and have the State put that on a passport?

Too much to ask?

As to the rest - the school by interfering are delaying her making the name change on her passport she wishes to make.

Cavehill Red · 10-04-2013 11:51AM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

If you don't agree with the policy of a school as it has been laid out, do not send your child there, simple as.

The school's policy is not legal.
If the school had a policy of beating the shyte out of kids, you wouldn't simply remove the child from the school and continue to respect their breaking the law.
They are similarly breaking the law here. The child has a right to be addressed by her own name and no other imposed upon her, no matter what 'school policy' is.

fishy fishy · 10-04-2013 11:52AM

Dan_Solo wrote: »

This sounds suspiciously like you'd end up with only people with Irish names being allowed int Gaelscoil.
How inclusive of you.

it doesn't - it sounds like when you are doing your education through Irish in Ireland, and specifically pick this choice, then your can't stomp your foot when you are addressed in Irish.

conorhal · 10-04-2013 11:53AM

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

If you don't agree with the policy of a school as it has been laid out, do not send your child there, simple as.

Ignorance of this policy can't be used as an excuse to rail against it after you've enrolled her. If you did your research on the school, you'd have known they do this. By enrolling her you've agreed to accept the school's policy.

Your don't have a choice in how the school carries out its business. You do however, have a choice of which school to send your child to.

And it's absolutely fair enough that you wanted to give her the best education, and that the best education just happened to come from a Gaeolscoil. But you can't pick and choose, you chose the Gaeolscoil with their naming policy and their better education standards over an English-speaking school with their not as high standards of education.

I think you got the better end of the deal, just accept this and move on. She's not being bullied by teachers if this happens to everyone. Choose your battles, save your energy, there's going to be a time during her secondary school career that she really will need your support, don't waste your efforts on something like this, there's bigger fish to fry IMO.

It seems basic common sense is in short supply these days unfortunately, I suspect if the OP were to join a golf club he'd be baffled and shouthing unfair! if they objected to him using a cricket bat to knock his ball around the course. He's having ah hypersensitive baseless whinge, and you have to wonder, what does that teach his daughter other then parents can act like a whinging self entitled teenager too?

HondaSami · 10-04-2013 11:53AM

Wiggles88 wrote: »

Actually they can be, a friend of mine had great trouble sorting out her visa to America precisely because they didnt believe that her school records were hers (the Irish version of her name looks quite different to her actual name)

A simple phone call to the school principle would clear this up.

SparkySpitfire · 10-04-2013 11:54AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

The school's policy is not legal.
If the school had a policy of beating the shyte out of kids, you wouldn't simply remove the child from the school and continue to respect their breaking the law.
They are similarly breaking the law here. The child has a right to be addressed by her own name and no other imposed upon her, no matter what 'school policy' is.

It's school policy in places to wear a uniform. I have a right to wear my own clothes. They breaking the law here too?

If this issue is so illegal and abhorrent to you and the OP that it causes you distress to rail about it on boards then I suggest you take the legal route here. If indeed it is illegal. I am no law expert.

See how far you get.

Wiggles88 · 10-04-2013 11:55AM

HondaSami wrote: »

A simple phone call to the school principle would clear this up.

Not for the American banks I'm afraid.

ballsymchugh · 10-04-2013 11:56AM

Wiggles88 wrote: »

It was to do with her work/American bank account, she couldnt get her visa without sorting all that out but, understandably, the Americans thought it was fishy that she was using documents under two very different names, took a lot of time and stressed phone calls to sort it out.

yes, it would be. it happened to a member of my family. a commissioner of oaths is what you need in that situation.

Being forced to use your "Irish" name at school

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