Your team for the summer tour to North America

Coburger · 09-04-2013 2:56pm #1

Hey, it's a bit ahead of time, but what would be your summer team to play the States and Canada?

CIARAN_BOYLE · 09-04-2013 3:06pm

Coburger wrote: »

Hey, it's a bit ahead of time, but what would be your summer team to play the States and Canada?

It all depends on who is with the Lions.
Something like maybe

Kilcoyne Strauss Hagan Tuohy Ryan Henderson Henry POM
Marmion Madigan Trimble McSharry Cave Gilroy Kearney

Cronin Buckley Archer Stevenson TOD Marshall Jackson Earls

Lions tourist Healy POC SOB BOD Zebo Sexton
Rested Best Heaslip McCarthy Ross Darcy Bowe Marshall

What about you

totallegend · 09-04-2013 3:07pm

Very hard to say when we don't know who will/won't be with the Lions.

But if we saw something like:
Props: Kilcoyne, Buckley, Archer, Hagan
Hookers: Strauss, Cronin, Sherry
Locks: Toner, Ryan, McCarthy
BR: Henderson, POM, Ryan, O'Donnell
SH: Murray, Marmion
OH: Madigan, Jackson
Centres: Marshall, Cave, McFadden
Back three: Zebo, Gilroy, Earls, D Kearney, Trimble

That would be young enough to build for the future but experienced enough to put a meaningful performance together. No point bringing the likes of DOC, Boss, D'Arcy etc.

Podge_irl · 09-04-2013 3:15pm

If Heaslip isn't with the Lions (and I don't think he will be at this point) I think he'll probably go and captain the tour.

Coburger · 09-04-2013 3:18pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

It all depends on who is with the Lions.
Something like maybe

Kilcoyne Strauss Hagan Tuohy Ryan Henderson Henry POM
Marmion Madigan Trimble McSharry Cave Gilroy Kearney

Cronin Buckley Archer Stevenson TOD Marshall Jackson Earls

Lions tourist Healy POC SOB BOD Zebo Sexton
Rested Best Heaslip McCarthy Ross Darcy Bowe Marshall

What about you

although Marshall has got a few bags and whollops recently I think it could be good for him to go along, same with McCarthy, give them a bit more time in a green shirt. Don't know if Trimble needs to go along but it could be nice to have some experience go along

Buer · 09-04-2013 3:22pm

I expect a few cheap caps to be handed out just as they were 4 years ago. Perhaps not to the same extent given the level of Lions involvement in 2009 but still a fair few that will have us looking back and thinking "If only I had laid off the pints and hit the gym, I could have been capped instead of him..."

Roll call for players who made the Irish senior 22 in 2009: Niall O'Connor, Ian Dowling, Ian Whitten, Niall Ronan and Denis Hurley.

The fun part of this squad will be figuring out who their equivalents are this time around.

justsomebloke · 09-04-2013 3:23pm

Coburger wrote: »

although Marshall has got a few bags and whollops recently I think it could be good for him to go along

Truthfully I hope we don't see Marshall on the trip. Hope he is given a long break to see how he is

Hype710 · 09-04-2013 3:31pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

If Heaslip isn't with the Lions (and I don't think he will be at this point) I think he'll probably go and captain the tour.

I'm very confident Heaslip will be with the Lions. 2 dedicated 8s will need to be taken. Faletau has one sown up. Ben Morgan has been injured. Tom Wood was a blindside covering 8. Johnnie Beattie plays in France which is a mark against his name and didn't have a better 6N than Heaslip. Not only that, Heaslip has 3 test starts from four years ago, has leadership experience and has been in very good form this past month or so.

Hype710 · 09-04-2013 3:33pm

There's two games, so I'd like to see one start each for the likes of Strauss and Cronin, Madigan and Jackson, Tuohy and McCarthy etc.

its_phil · 09-04-2013 3:42pm

Props: Kilcoyne, Archer (gonna happen), Hagan, Court, Loughney (cover both sides) or Hagan, Buckley

Hooker: Strauss, Cronin, Sherry

Second Row: McCarthy, Henderson, Tuohy, Toner/ Andrew Browne (Toner has favour but wanted to mention Browne has been outstanding this year and can play 6 just as well but so does Henderson)

Backrow: POM, Henry, Heaslip (C), TOD, Faloon

Scrum Halves: Marshall, Marmion, Boss

Outhalves: Jackson, Madigan

Center: McSharry, Cave, McFadden (wing cover), Griffin

Wings: Bowe (hasn't played much this year but hopefully on Lions), Gilroy

FB: Henshaw, Jones

Squad might be too big

Heroditas · 09-04-2013 3:42pm

Ryan needs the summer off, I would imagine. Wouldn't be surprised if he undergoes some form of surgery if he doesn't make the Lions.

siltirocker · 09-04-2013 3:45pm

Healy (Kilcoyne)
Best (Strauss)
Ross
Ryan
POC (McCarthy)
O'Mahoney
O'Brien (Henry)
Heaslip (Couglan)
Murray
Sexton (Madigan / Jackson)
Zebo (Fitz/Ferg)
Darcy
BOD (Cave/Earls)
Bowe (Gilroy/Trimble)
Kearney (Henshaw)

(In case of Lions berth)

opinionatedfan · 09-04-2013 3:46pm

Kilcoyne, Buckley.
Strauss, Cronin, Sherry.
Hagan, Archer.
Touhy, McCarthy, Toner.
Henderson, Browne, O'Donnell, Henry, McKeon, POM.
Murray, Marmion.
Madigan, Jackson.
McSharry, Cave.
Earls, McFadden, Kearney, Henshaw.

With a team like this:
1. Kilcoyne
2. Strauss
3. Hagan
4. Touhy
5. McCarthy
6. Henderson
7. Henry
8. POM
9. Murray
10. Madigan
11. Earls
12. McSharry
13. Cave
14. McFadden
15. Henshaw
16. Cronin
17. Buckley
18. Archer
19. Toner
20. O'Donnell
21. Marmion
22. Jackson
23. Kearney

its_phil · 09-04-2013 3:47pm

siltirocker wrote: »

Healy (Kilcoyne)
Best (Strauss)
Ross
Ryan
POC (McCarthy)
O'Mahoney
O'Brien (Henry)
Heaslip (Couglan)
Murray
Sexton (Madigan / Jackson)
Zebo (Fitz/Ferg)
Darcy
BOD (Cave/Earls)
Bowe (Gilroy/Trimble)
Kearney (Henshaw)

(In case of Lions berth)

They won't be bringing their first choice team regardless of fitness or Lions

Grimebox · 09-04-2013 3:47pm

I didn't realise these games overlap with the lions tour

Tox56 · 09-04-2013 5:33pm

With all these tours going on you would have to think that the likes of Henshaw and maybe even Olding will be pulled from their JWC duties to make up the numbers which would be a shame. We're scheduled to play the All Blacks U20 team with potentially a few Super rugby players in their ranks, and with the possibility of actually progressing in a tournament, surley more important than playing some Georgian/American journeymen. If they get the best team together they could have half a chance.

its_phil · 09-04-2013 5:41pm

Tox56 wrote: »

With all these tours going on you would have to think that the likes of Henshaw and maybe even Olding will be pulled from their JWC duties to make up the numbers which would be a shame. We're scheduled to play the All Blacks U20 team with potentially a few Super rugby players in their ranks, and with the possibility of actually progressing in a tournament, surley more important than playing some Georgian/American journeymen. If they get the best team together they could have half a chance.

I really wouldn't consider the Georgians as journey men. Plenty of top forwards in the Top 14.I pray for you if Gorgodze reads that

Olding probably won't be needed and should go to U20WC but Henshaw is different. I'd nearly leave it up to him on what to do but he might not want to let Jones get one up on him and one if his few chances while Kearney most likely will not be there.

the baby bull elephant · 09-04-2013 6:13pm

Props: Kilcoyne, Archer, Buckley, Loughney,

Not much choice. We won't exactly be coming up against scrummaging forces lets find out as much as possible about these guys.

Hookers: Cronin, Sherry

An argument could be made for Strauss as well I'd rather not.

Locks: Tuohy, Toner, Kearney/PO'C

I like what Kearney's been doing at Connacht and is only 21. If PO'C doesn't go with the Lions he'd be useful as a leadership figure and a good way to ease him back into international rugby.

Backrow: Henderson, O'Donnell, Ryan, Ruddock, Henry

Easy to forget Ruddock is already capped. If you want a more recognised 8 I'd go with McKeon.

Scrumhalves: Marshall, Marmion

Murray's been good but played a lot of rugby since breaking onto the scene, give him a rest. Besides want to see what these two can do.

Outhalves: Madigan, Jackson

Don't think there's too much to say here.

Centres: Marshall, Cave, McSharry, McFadden

McFadden to also cover wing.

Backthree: Henshaw, Zebo, Gilroy, Trimble

Going on the basis I want to rest most frontline players.

its_phil · 09-04-2013 6:21pm

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Props: Kilcoyne, Archer, Buckley, Loughney,

Not much choice. We won't exactly be coming up against scrummaging forces lets find out as much as possible about these guys.

Hookers: Cronin, Sherry

An argument could be made for Strauss as well I'd rather not.

Locks: Tuohy, Toner, Kearney/PO'C

I like what Kearney's been doing at Connacht and is only 21. If PO'C doesn't go with the Lions he'd be useful as a leadership figure and a good way to ease him back into international rugby.

Backrow: Henderson, O'Donnell, Ryan, Ruddock, Henry

Easy to forget Ruddock is already capped. If you want a more recognised 8 I'd go with McKeon.

Scrumhalves: Marshall, Marmion

Murray's been good but played a lot of rugby since breaking onto the scene, give him a rest. Besides want to see what these two can do.

Outhalves: Madigan, Jackson

Don't think there's too much to say here.

Centres: Marshall, Cave, McSharry, McFadden

McFadden to also cover wing.

Backthree: Henshaw, Zebo, Gilroy, Trimble

Going on the basis I want to rest most frontline players.

You need to bring 3 hookers and at least 5 props in case of an injury before the game so uncontested scrums don't become an unnecessary issue.

3 SH's is usual protocol as well

the baby bull elephant · 09-04-2013 6:23pm

its_phil wrote: »

You need to bring 3 hookers and at least 5 props in case of an injury before the game so uncontested scrums don't become an unnecessary issue.

3 SH's is usual protocol as well

I know protocol yeah but I'd rather a small squad for just two games. If someone gets injured flying them over wouldn't be as bad as the Paddy Wallace case.

Hype710 · 09-04-2013 6:29pm

Tox56 wrote: »

With all these tours going on you would have to think that the likes of Henshaw and maybe even Olding will be pulled from their JWC duties to make up the numbers which would be a shame. We're scheduled to play the All Blacks U20 team with potentially a few Super rugby players in their ranks, and with the possibility of actually progressing in a tournament, surley more important than playing some Georgian/American journeymen. If they get the best team together they could have half a chance.

I think Henshaw will go to North America but like you I'd rather he played in the JWC. At least with Paddy Jackson you could understand it as he'd already played in one as well as two U20 6N but Henshaw isn't in the same scenario. I don't think he's indispensable just yet for the senior team; Ireland will be fine with Jones and Earls/Gilroy so I'd prefer to see him go to the JWC and play with his peers. Our U20 victory over South Africa was probably my favourite performance by an Irish team last year!

opinionatedfan · 09-04-2013 6:47pm

yeah, the under 20 team underperformed in the 6n.

I'd like us to send as strong as team as possible to it.

TheKeenMachine · 09-04-2013 7:23pm

Surprised to see people picking Ryan, Ruddock, Falloon etc. over McLaughlin/Jenno/Coughlan.

opinionatedfan · 09-04-2013 7:25pm

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Surprised to see people picking Ryan, Ruddock, Falloon etc. over McLaughlin/Jenno/Coughlan.

why?

Jenno and Coughlan are in their 30s, and McLaughlin is close to 30.

Much rather see younger players travel on this tour.

totallegend · 09-04-2013 7:27pm

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

Surprised to see people picking Ryan, Ruddock, Falloon etc. over McLaughlin/Jenno/Coughlan.

Coughlan will go I'd day but posters here aren't picking him because he offers very little in terms of future development, ditto Jennings. McLaughlin has never seemed to grasp his chances so I'm not holding out much hope for his international future

Donald Coyle · 09-04-2013 7:29pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

why?

Jenno and Coughlan are in their 30s, and McLaughlin is close to 30.

Much rather see younger players travel on this tour.

Yeah, this 6N has shown we need to use any opportunity to increase the pool of players capable of international rugby. We know all about Jenno and McLaughlin. Maybe a little late for Coughlan, even if his performances deserve recognition.

TheKeenMachine · 09-04-2013 7:36pm

opinionatedfan wrote: »

why?

Jenno and Coughlan are in their 30s, and McLaughlin is close to 30.

Much rather see younger players travel on this tour.

1. Coughlan is the best 8 in Ireland after Heaslip

2. McLaughlin's 28. 30 by the next World Cup. His age is no reason to write him off, plus he looked very good in NZ (3rd Test aside obviously)

3. Leadership will definitely be required if front line players are rested as posters are suggesting, all three guys have captaincy experience.

On top of that, Ryan will be a very good player I think, but he has had very little rugby over the last while. (I'd probably still bring him though). I've never thought much of Faloon tbh. And, imo, Ruddock is the most overrated player in Ireland. It boggles the mind that he has been included in Ireland squads etc.

Maybe bringing Jenno is a bit pointless, but I think Locky and Coughlan certainly deserve a shot.

its_phil · 09-04-2013 7:46pm

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

I've never thought much of Faloon tbh.

Well he has been excellent this year and half the Connacht fans vote for Player of the Year. Came to Galway from Belfast and just hit the ground running.

TheKeenMachine · 09-04-2013 7:49pm

its_phil wrote: »

Well he has been excellent this year and half the Connacht fans vote for Player of the Year. Came to Galway from Belfast and just hit the ground running.

I'm not doubting you, I haven't seen a lot of him this year due to lack of Connacht on TV, but whenever I've seen him he's been average.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 09-04-2013 7:52pm

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

I'm not doubting you, I haven't seen a lot of him this year due to lack of Connacht on TV, but whenever I've seen him he's been average.

I would rate him as one of Ireland's (all four provinces) most improved players since last season.

Not sure it would translate at international level though.

bilston · 09-04-2013 8:08pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I would rate him as one of Ireland's (all four provinces) most improved players since last season.

Not sure it would translate at international level though.

Haven't seen much of Faloon since he left Ulster but while at Ulster he was a good player but my main gripe with him was that he always seemed to miss a couple of tackles in every game he played. I'm not sure either that he would cut it at international unfortunately.

its_phil · 09-04-2013 8:19pm

bilston wrote: »

Haven't seen much of Faloon since he left Ulster but while at Ulster he was a good player but my main gripe with him was that he always seemed to miss a couple of tackles in every game he played.

Yeah he misses a couple alright going by stats but it hasnt been that noticeable to be honest. I'm always surprised when I see he has missed them but the other side is he makes a lot of them too. He is an absolute fiend at the breakdown and a more than suitable replacement for JOC. In his 10 starts this year, going by ESPN, he has made an average of 10.9 tackles a game while missing 1.4.

blackhound · 09-04-2013 8:26pm

Surely McKeon has to tour as well, been very good for Connacht this season also I imagine Dave Kearney will be involved.

Tox56 · 09-04-2013 8:32pm

bilston wrote: »

Haven't seen much of Faloon since he left Ulster but while at Ulster he was a good player but my main gripe with him was that he always seemed to miss a couple of tackles in every game he played. I'm not sure either that he would cut it at international unfortunately.

The impression I've always got from him is that he just isn't powerful enough. The Edinburgh-Ulster H Cup semi-final was a good example, just got blown away at the ruck and couldn't make any impact even at that level. Good player but not an international from what I've seen

iamjenko · 10-04-2013 8:12am

blackhound wrote: »

Surely McKeon has to tour as well, been very good for Connacht this season also I imagine Dave Kearney will be involved.

I read yesterday McKeon is to miss the rest of the season through injury unfortunately! Been very impressed by him this year, big prospect!

Tim Robbins · 10-04-2013 9:19am

Hype710 wrote: »

I'm very confident Heaslip will be with the Lions. 2 dedicated 8s will need to be taken. Faletau has one sown up. Ben Morgan has been injured. Tom Wood was a blindside covering 8. Johnnie Beattie plays in France which is a mark against his name and didn't have a better 6N than Heaslip. Not only that, Heaslip has 3 test starts from four years ago, has leadership experience and has been in very good form this past month or so.

SOB can play 8. And would be a better 8 than anyone else and it frees up someone else to play 6 and 7.

.ak · 10-04-2013 10:13am

Tim Robbins wrote: »

SOB can play 8. And would be a better 8 than anyone else and it frees up someone else to play 6 and 7.

SOB can play at 8, but has never played a test game there, there's absolutely no way he'd play there for the Lions unless an injury crisis happened. He's a dynamic 8, and did a job there for Leinster, but he lacks the finer points of an 8's game, namely ball control at the base and cleaning up scrap ball.

biscuits22 · 10-04-2013 10:25am

i thought sob played 8 against italy in the 2011 6n......i think he was motm in that game as well

Buer · 10-04-2013 10:27am

.ak wrote: »

SOB can play at 8, but has never played a test game there, there's absolutely no way he'd play there for the Lions unless an injury crisis happened.

Italy in the 2011 6N. I would agree on your overall points but players do play out of position on a Lions tour due to necessity. Wallace played 8. BOD played 15. Bowe played 13. Fitzgerald played 12.

Whilst I don't think they'll go as anything but flankers if selected, I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of SOB or Brown line out at 8 at some point. If they take two players as specialists at No. 8, it will only take one injury to conceivably have someone else start at No. 8 due to rotation.

Hype710 · 10-04-2013 12:01pm

Wallace played 8 pretty badly, in fact. Andy Powell was a laughing stock (in more ways than one) so the Lions were pretty fortunate to have Heaslip. I'm all up for giving SOB a go in one of the warm up games, but you need two specialist 8s if it doesn't work out (as it didn't with Wallace).

D87 · 11-04-2013 8:42am

Is Downey in with a shout for an international spot?

Buer · 11-04-2013 9:01am

D87 wrote: »

Is Downey in with a shout for an international spot?

Only if it's due to absolute lack of options. The guy simply isn't near international standard nor, given he is 32, will he ever be. If he is capped, it will be purely due to no other options but I'd much rather see McSharry, Hanrahan, Olding or McFadden in the spot.

My first choice would be McSharry as he's a similar type of player but 10 years younger. Olding will be with the U20 side this summer. McFadden could have a run there just to settle in as a cover option in future. Hanrahan would be a bold choice but he's probably going to go on the development tour.

We've two games this summer. I'd be very disappointed if anyone over the age of 30 is handed their first cap on it. It should be a chance for others to develop with one or two older heads such as DOC and Chris Henry brought along to guide things.

thomond2006 · 11-04-2013 9:23am

Tommy O'Donnell should definitely tour, been in great form for Munster.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 11-04-2013 9:53am

D87 wrote: »

Is Downey in with a shout for an international spot?

I'd have Marshall (probably out for the rest of the season with his concussions) Darcy McFadden or McSharry ahead of him on a quality level. I'd probably cap Hanrahan or Olding ahead of his just based on potential.

the baby bull elephant · 11-04-2013 4:56pm

What do people think of our winger playing in England's chances? Morris and Monahan.

Hype710 · 11-04-2013 5:08pm

Would definitely have Morris in the Emerging Ireland squad. Not sure about Monahan tbh.

Podge_irl · 11-04-2013 5:13pm

Morris has a decent enough chance. The best chance these players will get is on year end tours as they don't have to be returned to their clubs.

Beery Eyed · 09-05-2013 9:08pm

Has there been any indication about when the squad will be announced for this tour?

I noticed England & Scotland have announced squads for their summer tours so hopefully ours won't be far away. I'm excited to see who will make the list anyway. It should be a very interesting tour in terms of the next group of internationals coming through. It may seem odd, but I'm personally looking forward to watching these games as much, if not more than the Lions games this summer, given the level of talent that seems to be coming through with Madigan, Jackson, Henderson, Hanrahan, etc.

RoundBox11 · 09-05-2013 9:30pm

Anyone know from previous years whether we'll see many players (e.g. Ross and Ryan) who've played a lot of games this season being rested. We definitely dont need them for North America, more a case of are we even allowed to rest them?

Presuming guys like Luke Marshall, Deccie Fitz and Stephen Ferris are out, my team for the North America tour would be along the lines of:

15. Zebo
14. Trimble
13. Cave
12. McFadden
11. Gilroy
10. Madigan
9. Marshall

8. POM
7. Henry
6. Henderson
5. McCarthy/Tuohy
4. Ryan/Toner
3. Hagan
2. Strauss
1. Kilcoyne

Beery Eyed · 09-05-2013 9:39pm

Well England are resting Robshaw, Flood, Care, Ashton, Barritt & probably a few others for their tour, in the interest of bringing younger players & giving them a chance.

Wales have done this to an extent as well with Ryan Jones & James Hook not being brought into the extended squad, plus they have 15 players on the Lions squad.

It's an individual call on each position, so there's no hard & fast rule. I'd bring a couple of guys with strong international experience anyway, so that they can lead the group & keep the mentality right. Other than that, where it's a fairly 50/50 call I'd rest the experienced player if he's not essential & give the younger player a chance instead

Ruck Inspector · 09-05-2013 9:40pm

1. Kilcoyne
2. Strauss
3. Hagan
4. Toner
5. Henderson
6. POM
7. Henry
8. Murphy
9. Marshall
10. Madigan
11. Zebo
12. McFadden
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Jones
16. Cronin
17. Court
18. Loughney
19. Touhy
20. TOD
21. Marmion
22. Jackson
23. Gilroy

Your team for the summer tour to North America

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