Maggie Thatcher dead - Mega merge thread

Nodin · 08-04-2013 3:54pm

true wrote: »

She stood by the Falkland islanders and would not let them be successfully invaded by the regime of "the disappeared".

....she lifted an arms embargo on Chile thus helping pinochet dissappear more. She refused to enact sanctions against Aparthied south Africa, thus prolonging the life of the regime and condemning more to death and suffering.

wonderfullife · 08-04-2013 3:55pm

It's worth noting that she was re-elected in 1983 and 1987 with majorities of 144 and 135, the biggest majorities of a Government in the UK since war time.

By both 1983 and 1987 the British people were very aware of her policies towards: Ireland, Northern Ireland, Argentina, communism, trade unions.

Yet she was still re-elected with massive majorities. Even during her 3 terms she recorded some of the highest approval ratings for a Prime Minister.

So we can sit here and continue to hate/vilify/resent her, as a figurehead, but the fact of the matter is she was democratically elected by the people who gave her the mandate to carry out her policy decisions. This was not a one-term PM who got elected and decided to go maverick on a bunch of policies the people did not mandate her to implement.

Anynama141 · 08-04-2013 3:55pm

Seachmall wrote: »

No source then?

Well, no source in the sense that I have no source that Gandalf is mentioned in the Bible.

You understand what those conventions are, right?

FTA69 · 08-04-2013 3:55pm

true wrote: »

She stood by the Falkland islanders and would not let them be successfully invaded by the regime of "the disappeared".

And yet she had no qualms about supporting the Pinochet regime which disappeared people left, right and centre. Such was the amount of people killed in the initial round-up they had to take them to a stadium to carry out the torture and executions. For a woman who bleated about democracy she had no problem supporting apartheid South Africa or a dictatorship that toppled a democratically-elected government.

Why don't you share your opinions on her support for Pinochet?

Nodin · 08-04-2013 3:55pm

HondaSami wrote: »

For all the posters who are negative against her, can ye honestly say she has not done any good at all?
.

Well, she did eventually leave power and die, so there is that....

Banjo String · 08-04-2013 3:55pm

Gerry Adams statement.

April 8th 2013Death of Margaret ThatcherSinn Féin President Gerry Adams commenting on the death today of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher said:“Margaret Thatcher did great hurt to the Irish and British people during her time as British Prime Minister.

Working class communities were devastated in Britain because of her policies.Her role in international affairs was equally belligerent whether in support of the Chilean dictator Pinochet, her opposition to sanctions against apartheid South Africa; and her support for the Khmer Rouge.

Here in Ireland her espousal of old draconian militaristic policies prolonged the war and caused great suffering. She embraced censorship, collusion and the killing of citizens by covert operations, including the targeting of solicitors like Pat Finucane, alongside more open military operations and refused to recognise the rights of citizens to vote for parties of their choice.Her failed efforts to criminalise the republican struggle and the political prisoners is part of her legacy.

It should be noted that in complete contradiction of her public posturing, she authorised a back channel of communications with the Sinn Féin leadership but failed to act on the logic of this

.Unfortunately she was faced with weak Irish governments who failed to oppose her securocrat agenda or to enlist international support in defence of citizens in the north. Margaret Thatcher will be especially remembered for her shameful role during the epic hunger strikes of 1980 and 81.Her Irish policy failed miserably.

Seachmall · 08-04-2013 3:56pm

Anynama141 wrote: »

Well, no source in the sense that I have no source that Gandalf is mentioned in the Bible.

I'll consider your claim retracted so.

You understand what those conventions are, right?

When you made the claim and then told me to have a gander at those conventions for proof I assumed the proof was in those conventions.

Instead I found the opposite.

I don't see where this discussion can go from here to be honest.

FreeTime · 08-04-2013 3:56pm

Latchy wrote: »

She ruined a lot of industry ,put thousands out of work

Why didn't Labour, under Blair, not reverse her decisions and nationalise the mines for example?

08-04-2013 3:57pm

Bambi wrote: »

You don't live in a city, do you?

Perhaps ruling is too strong a term but the fact remains that these people are there with no respect or not an ounce of fear of the law. Granted they are not limited to urban areas and the problem is dispersing to even smaller areas

wonderfullife · 08-04-2013 3:57pm

Hidalgo wrote: »

Bertie got re-elected, does that mean he's still Mr Popular??

No, being unpopular is fine. Bertie being blamed directly for a suicide or heart attack is not. It's ridiculous to blame a democratically elected leader directly for suicides or heart attacks but that's what the poster tried to do. Boggles the mind.

Nodin · 08-04-2013 3:57pm

Anynama141 wrote: »

I work on the balance of probabilities. Do you really make that bunch for militant feminists? How about yourself?

"that bunch" with the links to the ANC, the first "bunch" to support gay marriage...

It seems you really haven't anything but the old cliches and bollox.

Wheres the evidence re Pat Finucane?

Anynama141 · 08-04-2013 3:57pm

Hidalgo wrote: »

Bertie got re-elected, does that mean he's still Mr Popular??

Bertie was very popular when he was in power, and left the country a shambles.
Thatcher was very unpopular when in power, and recovered Britain from a shambles.

That tells you a lot about electorates.

08-04-2013 3:58pm

RayserSharp wrote: »

I hope she died roaring.

You hope a very old frail lady with alzheimers who just died of a stroke, died roaring, presumably in pain.

Is this because you think her politics were heartless?

true · 08-04-2013 3:59pm

Ironic he would say that. I think history has proved it was Gerry Adams Irish policy which was the most miserable of all.

fishy fishy · 08-04-2013 3:59pm

wonderfullife wrote: »

It's worth noting that she was re-elected in 1983 and 1987 with majorities of 144 and 135, the biggest majorities of a Government in the UK since war time.

By both 1983 and 1987 the British people were very aware of her policies towards: Ireland, Northern Ireland, Argentina, communism, trade unions.

Yet she was still re-elected with massive majorities. Even during her 3 terms she recorded some of the highest approval ratings for a Prime Minister.

So we can sit here and continue to hate/vilify/resent her, as a figurehead, but the fact of the matter is she was democratically elected by the people who gave her the mandate to carry out her policy decisions. This was not a one-term PM who got elected and decided to go maverick on a bunch of policies the people did not mandate her to implement.

doesn't really say a lot about the intelligence of the voters i reckon;

Am Chile · 08-04-2013 3:59pm

Thatcher was directly responsible for the deaths of ten men Im making reference to the hunger strikers- she destroyed the mining industry in britain- she privatised the water services in the late 80s-thatcher was an enemy of all ordinary working class people-I feel no sympathy for her whatsoever- rust in peace.

Hidalgo · 08-04-2013 3:59pm

true wrote: »

She stood by the Falkland islanders and would not let them be successfully invaded by the regime of "the disappeared".

Yes and she also favoured the apartheid system in South Africa.
She also stated that she believed former members of the Khmer Rouge regime would be important ministers in the future Cambodian government. Now there's a regime of the disappeared if ever there was one

08-04-2013 4:00pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

doesn't really say a lot about the intelligence of the voters i reckon;

The alternative was Neil Kinnock.

Anynama141 · 08-04-2013 4:00pm

Seachmall wrote: »

I'll consider your claim retracted so.

When you made the claim and then told me to have a gander at those conventions for proof I assumed the proof was in those conventions.

Instead I found the opposite.

I don't see where this discussion can go from here to be honest.

My claim is that they could be shot as spies as they were soldiers OUT of uniform NOT in their own territory.

The Geneva and Hague Conventions DO NOT cover people in those circumstances - thus, under the laws of WAR, they could be shot.

THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO SHOW THAT SUCH A KILLING OF SPIES AND SABOTEURS IN A WAR IS ILLEGAL.

If you cannot show this, I will assume you have retracted your claim.

true · 08-04-2013 4:01pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

doesn't really say a lot about the intelligence of the voters i reckon;

blame a nation of 60 million or so people for voting for her. The same nation was the second biggest contributer to the EC at the time, and millions of Irish got good jobs in the UK, so we do owe her a lot of respect.

fishy fishy · 08-04-2013 4:01pm

wonderfullife wrote: »

No, being unpopular is fine. Bertie being blamed directly for a suicide or heart attack is not. It's ridiculous to blame a democratically elected leader directly for suicides or heart attacks but that's what the poster tried to do. Boggles the mind.

well to be fair ahern did say tothe people who were trying to explain what was going to happen "why don't they go an commit suicide"

Nodin · 08-04-2013 4:01pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

doesn't really say a lot about the intelligence of the voters i reckon;

Doesn't say much about the electoral system overthere when those massive majorities were generated by a vote that was usually under 42%.

Weathering · 08-04-2013 4:02pm

Call a spade a spade she was a b1tch. Gtf

FTA69 · 08-04-2013 4:02pm

true wrote: »

Ironic he would say that. I think history has proved it was Gerry Adams Irish policy which was the most miserable of all.

Any thoughts on Pinochet bud?

Anynama141 · 08-04-2013 4:02pm

Nodin wrote: »

Wheres the evidence re Pat Finucane?

The evidence is that he was so useful to terrorists, the British had him shot. Pretty compelling evidence, I would suggest.

Nodin · 08-04-2013 4:02pm

Anynama141 wrote: »

My claim is(......)your claim.

Pat Finucane...the evidence? You brought it up, after all.

Nodin · 08-04-2013 4:03pm

Anynama141 wrote: »

The evidence is that he was so useful to terrorists, the British had him shot. Pretty compelling evidence, I would suggest.

And behold, more bollocks.

Seachmall · 08-04-2013 4:03pm

Anynama141 wrote: »

My claim is that they could be shot as spies as they were soldiers OUT of uniform NOT in their own territory.

The Geneva and Hague Conventions DO NOT cover people in those circumstances - thus, under the laws of WAR, they could be shot.

So why tell me to look at them?

Were you clutching at straws perhaps?

THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO SHOW THAT SUCH A KILLING OF SPIES AND SABOTEURS IN A WAR IS ILLEGAL.

If you cannot show this, I will assume you have retracted your claim.

My only claim is that your claim is false. Burden of proof belongs to you I'm afraid.

wonderfullife · 08-04-2013 4:03pm

fishy fishy wrote: »

doesn't really say a lot about the intelligence of the voters i reckon;

By every economic metric available, she left the UK in an infinitely stronger position to which she took over. Employment, GDP, debt - go through the entire spectrum and compare 1979 with 1990 and you might see why they voted for her consistently.

Even those on the far left in the UK acknowledge she did a lot of good, they just will never (and can never) agree with the policies that achieved the change, ostracising swathes of the country, deepening the North-South/North-London divide in the country.

Latchy · 08-04-2013 4:03pm

HondaSami wrote: »

For all the posters who are negative against her, can ye honestly say she has not done any good at all?
I don't believe she was perfect nor is any leader, she was tough and did not back down, unlike the spineless leaders we have here.

All political leader's have negative points to their personality as much as any governmental policy's but Thatcher was an egomaniac who would rather cut her nose off than give ground or loose face on anything .Where do you think Cameron and Hague get it from .

Maggie Thatcher dead - Mega merge thread

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