Youths get 15 years for murder of feminist activist in Mexico

K-9 · 05-04-2013 03:06AM

International awareness might achieve something. We can't all just move over there and change anything, same as we couldn't all move over to South Africa under De Clerk. Did international pressure play some small part, despite 10's of thousands of Irish people and hundreds of Dunnes workers not moving over there en masse? Yes.

Eventually all the controversies over rugby tours and protests over South African produce had some small effect. In an increasingly globalist world, yes, it can have some small effect. Still, what South Africans do themselves is far more important, same as what people who actually live in Northern Ireland do, is far more important than what Bill Clinton thinks.

That doesn't mean support from outside is useless or a waste of time.

Edit: Northern Ireland was lucky it was a first world problem, somewhere like the Congo or Mexico, people get immune to it as they are "poor" countries, Mexico is actually doing very well as an economy recently, thank you very much.

SeanW · 05-04-2013 03:12AM

K-9 wrote: »

We'll never get her version of events seeing as she is dead, all we have are convicted murderers versions.

That's true, but the story is, IMO too bizarre to make up.

"Sorry, I didn't know she was an activist, we're just insanely violent gangbangers that thought we were mutilating and mudering a police officer"

On what planet could that possibly get somoene sympathy or mitigation?

K-9 · 05-04-2013 03:23AM

SeanW wrote: »

That's true, but the story is, IMO too bizarre to make up.

"Sorry, I didn't know she was an activist, we're just insanely violent gangbangers that thought we were mutilating and mudering a police officer"

On what planet could that possibly get somoene sympathy or mitigation?

That's is not quite the full picture, you are painting it as just a murder of a police officer.

The full context is different, she supposedly declared herself as an undercover police officer, for some unknown reason that nobody can seem to fathom, so:

Occam's Razor making an appearance again, I don't think she did do that.

RDM_83 again · 05-04-2013 03:29AM

K-9 wrote: »

International awareness might achieve something. We can't all just move over there and change anything, same as we couldn't all move over to South Africa under De Clerk. Did international pressure play some small part, despite 10's of thousands of Irish people and hundreds of Dunnes workers not moving over there en masse? Yes.

Eventually all the controversies over rugby tours and protests over South African produce had some small effect. In an increasingly globalist world, yes, it can have some small effect. Still, what South Africans do themselves is far more important, same as what people who actually live in Northern Ireland do, is far more important than what Bill Clinton thinks.

That doesn't mean support from outside is useless or a waste of time.

But its completely different placing moral pressure on a government, that at least in its own eyes regards itself as legitimate, the people that commit these acts don't, while, I'm sure they have some twisted honor system they do not regard themselves as part of the wider international community the way that S.A did, David Cameron isn't condoning Mexican gangbangers actions the way that Maggie Thatcher did when she opposed sanctions.
And as I stated you could boycott SA and hurt them economically, you can;t do similar in this situation. In relation to the Clinton point, it also wasn't about what he thought, IMO tighter control of Republican fund raising in the USA etc if settlement wasn't achieved may have been a push factor and also this may sound controversial but the IRA was actually quiet aware of outside perceptions.

SeanW · 05-04-2013 03:38AM

K-9 wrote: »

That's is not quite the full picture, you are painting it as just a murder of a police officer.

The full context is different, she supposedly declared herself as an undercover police officer, for some unknown reason that nobody can seem to fathom, so:

Occam's Razor making an appearance again, I don't think she did do that.

Possible. But I find it equally strange that somoene would make up a story that would likely make their punishment much worse.

If Occam's Razor is a guide to the truth in this case, the question is, which is least likely. That the victim would tell those gangsters that she was an undercover cop, or that the gangsters in question would make up a story that, to say the least, would do them no favours? I just don't see why they would do that.

Oranage2 · 05-04-2013 04:39AM

K-9 wrote: »

That's is not quite the full picture, you are painting it as just a murder of a police officer.

The full context is different, she supposedly declared herself as an undercover police officer, for some unknown reason that nobody can seem to fathom, so:

Occam's Razor making an appearance again, I don't think she did do that.

possibly they were all set on raping her and she thought she could scare them off by saying she was a cop.

old hippy · 05-04-2013 08:25AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Straw that broke the camel's back?

I won't and don't go on crusades in every thread in fairness, like I haven't gone near the guy in England who murdered his own children thread, I didn't go near the woman raped on a bus in India thread, and there's tons more threads I read but just thought "I wonder how many posters have actually done anything to improve the lives of the people in their own community before they expect everyone to share their outrage at an incident that happens in a different country?"

It wasn't specifically the content of the OP, but the fact that posting international stories on an Irish website, aimed at an Irish audience, feels like just a futile exercise. I mean, raise awareness, and that's fine, but what can anyone in Ireland ACTUALLY do about an incident that happened in Mexico? An incident that by all accounts is by no means an isolated one over there.

When it's pointed out then that it doesn't take a lot to effect change in the world by starting within their own community, some posters took objection to the fact that it might require them to step out from behind the keyboard.

It's all fine making people "aware" of an "issue", but isn't it always better to lead by example?

We can make an impact or try to, anywhere in the world.

The anti war demos of 10 years ago?

The Dunnes Stores strikers against apartheid of, what, 25 years ago?

What is so futile about being aware of what's happening outside of Ireland?

There's dozens and dozens of threads about stuff that happens elsewhere; the US, NK, Japan and so on and so forth.

As far as I'm led to believe, boards.ie is read by people right across the world, not just the diaspora but an international mix of people, no?

pickarooney · 05-04-2013 09:19AM

But as RDM rightly points out, this isn't a case of a government, a company or any entity presenting its actions as legitimate. These campaigns to tell bad people to stop being bad are futile, dangerously naive even. The most you can do is to stop buying your cocaine from Mexico.

It's interesting that there was no thread on this murder when it happened two years ago but now that justice has been served it's become a story.

K-9 · 05-04-2013 10:52AM

The initial point was the original posts asking, for some reason, why this thread was in AH and it developed from that.

tiger55 · 05-04-2013 11:15AM

Mexico is safe for foreign women either.

Armed, masked men who raped six Spanish tourists in the Mexican resort of Acapulco spared the lone Mexican woman in the group because of her nationality, adding yet another macabre twist to the case that has further hurt the resort's already battered reputation.

It was unclear whether the group of 12 Spaniards who fell prey to the attack had been targeted because of their nationality in the three-hour ordeal at a rented house on a tranquil beach dotted with restaurants, small hotels and rental homes. Most of the six men and six women live in Mexico City and were vacationing in Acapulco.

The five attackers burst into the house and held the group at gunpoint, said Acapulco Mayor Luis Walton. They tied up the six men with phone cords and bathing suit straps and then raped the six Spanish women.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57568038/acapulco-gang-rape-one-woman-saved-by-the-fact-that-she-is-mexican-authorities-say/

Pompey Magnus · 05-04-2013 11:41AM

tiger55 wrote: »

Mexico is safe for foreign women either.

Armed, masked men who raped six Spanish tourists in the Mexican resort of Acapulco spared the lone Mexican woman in the group because of her nationality, adding yet another macabre twist to the case that has further hurt the resort's already battered reputation.

It was unclear whether the group of 12 Spaniards who fell prey to the attack had been targeted because of their nationality in the three-hour ordeal at a rented house on a tranquil beach dotted with restaurants, small hotels and rental homes. Most of the six men and six women live in Mexico City and were vacationing in Acapulco.

The five attackers burst into the house and held the group at gunpoint, said Acapulco Mayor Luis Walton. They tied up the six men with phone cords and bathing suit straps and then raped the six Spanish women.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57568038/acapulco-gang-rape-one-woman-saved-by-the-fact-that-she-is-mexican-authorities-say/

Update

Moral of the story: If you plan on visiting a city listed as a risk zone due to a vicious turf war between drug gangs, don't buy drugs off one of the said gangs and then invite them into your rented accommodation.

A horrific attack but I wonder would it have happened if those who bought the drugs had not given business to the criminals who are destroying the city? Did they give any thought to how their money could be used to exacerbate the violence in the city once they returned home after their little holiday?

Reindeer · 05-04-2013 11:56AM

pickarooney wrote: »

There's a problem with huge violence against everyone in Juarez. No reason to think women would be excluded. Between the unfortunate banality of the event and the adequate sentencing of the culprits, there's not much to comment on .

Between the gangs(and these are HUGE syndicates), and government and police corruption in modern day Mexico, there's a lot of news spilling out of that country. I spent much of my life in Texas. It went from Mexico being a place to visit on weekends to the blood bath capitol of North America nearly over night. I've spent several days in Juarez, the sister city to El Paso back when I was comfortable roaming the streets at night wondering where I parked my pick up. That was as recently as 2003. Now there's no way in hell I would actually visit, let alone drive across the border to it. So, this strikes close to home for me.

The amount of drugs and arms involved are mind-boggling. I am not sure folks in Ireland appreciate the scale of it all: http://gawker.com/5993547/39-tons-of-pot-discovered-during-routine-traffic-stop-in-texas is an example of how bold and how much product they are moving. The gangs have airplanes, submarines, trucks and speed boats to keep the US busy day and night. The violence is phenomenal, and seemingly no end in sight. Every victim of this violence deserves a mention.

Youths get 15 years for murder of feminist activist in Mexico

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