Youths get 15 years for murder of feminist activist in Mexico

old hippy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22016263

I was not aware of the scale of violence towards women in Cuidad Jarez. A brave, strong woman who's life was ended brutally.

Mr Benevolent

Again, how is this relevant to us?

Duggys Housemate

Why are people reacting so weirdly to this thread. AH is not the "Irish only news" forum.

DrumSteve

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Why are people reacting so weirdly to this thread. AH is not the "Irish only news" forum.

Ah people just like to moan on here, mostly for thanks too I reckon.

old hippy

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Again, how is this relevant to us?

Again? I don't follow?

I'm posting this story because it moved me - I wasn't aware only stories from Ireland, the UK and North Korea are allowed.

Duggys Housemate

OP, you might want to rename the thread to "Youths get 15 years for murder of feminist activist in Mexico". This might just keep the intelligentsia out, I'll start a thread on "Eating Your Own Snot: Yes, or No?" to further distract em.

old hippy

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

OP, you might want to rename the thread to "Youths get 15 years for murder of feminist activist in Mexico". This might just keep the intelligentsia out, I'll start a thread on "Eating Your Own Snot: Yes, or No?" to further distract em.

I hear you, DH but I'll keep it this way for now. If some people come on here and read the link - if it makes them think for one moment of the wider world and the injustice there, well & good. If, however, they find the subject matter too much to handle, they are still able to post inane comments to demonstrate their affable laddishness.

Violence towards women is a global thing, not just confined to Ireland and the UK. People are very quick to discuss it on other threads but if they wasnt to act the maggot here... up to them.

Pawwed Rig

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

OP, you might want to rename the thread to "Youths get 15 years for murder of feminist activist in Mexico". This might just keep the intelligentsia out, I'll start a thread on "Eating Your Own Snot: Yes, or No?" to further distract em.

Haha made me laugh

I was in New Mexico USA some years ago and told one of my co workers I was thinking of visiting Mexico for the weekend. Juarez is just the other side of the border to El Paso. He nearly choked on his cornflakes and warned me never to think about going there. It is one of the most crime ridden places on earth.

FutureGuy

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

Again, how is this relevant to us?

Because if it were to happen in Ireland, they'd get a slap on the wrist and told not to be bold again.

Nice to see people treated as criminals, regardless of age.

Pompey Magnus

old hippy wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22016263

I was not aware of the scale of violence towards women in Cuidad Jarez.

As it happens the female victims of the violence in Ciudad Juarez get more international publicity than the vast majority of the victims (who happen to be male).

Terry1985

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Why are people reacting so weirdly to this thread. AH is not the "Irish only news" forum.

Because there's hundreds of thousands of people dying each day.

Ireland can only bailout Europe, it'll be a while before we can solve Latin Americas problems too.

In the meantime maybe we can sign a petition, hold hands and thank each other for pretending to be upset by it.

pickarooney

There's a problem with huge violence against everyone in Juarez. No reason to think women would be excluded. Between the unfortunate banality of the event and the adequate sentencing of the culprits, there's not much to comment on .

pickarooney

mccarthy37 wrote: »

A pretty shocking story from a country that has seen so many shocking murders for god knows how long. This story highlights how cheap life has become in a country that murder is reported everyday. People in this country should understand that there is a whole world outside this little island of ours. You would want to be totally uncaring not to be moved by this human tragedy.
Working in the States back in the 8o's I met workers from Mexico who just kept their head down and worked hard never complaining. Just like ourselves they were probably Illegal trying to make a few bob to send home. When I think of the few I got to know it is hard to believe they came from such a violent country as they were such quite people.

They were probably amazed you were from Ireland as you never once tried to kneecap them or blow them up.

FatherLen

pickarooney wrote: »

you never once tried to kneecap them or blow them up.

we don't know that

pickarooney

mccarthy37 wrote: »

No they were a lot smarter than that, some of them knew Irish people who were doing charity work in their villages. They had great respect for me as I respected them.

But not enough not to assume they'd be violent assholes just because they happened to come from Mexico?

biko

Apparently a drunken fight that got out of hand

There, they reportedly got into an argument, with the three youths claiming they were members of a criminal gang and Ms Chavez telling them she was an undercover policewoman.
The three told police they panicked, thinking she may inform on them.
They said they covered Ms Chavez's face in sticky tape until she suffocated and cut off her hand to make her murder look like a gangland execution.

It's terrible though that murder would be an option for kids to get out of trouble.

Mod

Idiotic posts deleted. If you're not interested - there are plenty of other threads available to you.

Don't be a dick.

tritium

Maybe I'm just getting desensitised as I get older but I'm struggling with this one

Basically a woman, who unrelatedly happened to be an activist, wa murdered by drunken teens who panicked. Said murderers were caught, convicted and are now in jail. What's the talking point again?

Mexico has massive, often drug related violence. Seven men were murdered there and their bodies left slumped in plastic chairs in the town square in the past week or so! So forgive me op but I think I'm more concerned about the killers who are still out there and who will happily kill again.

I mourn for this victim like any other, but respectfully I think you need to reconsider whether it's appropriate given the blatant and gender indiscriminate slaughter we've seen in Mexico in the last few years to use this incident as a rallying point for gender violence

keithb93

why would anyone pretend to be undercover police after a group of drunk people told them they were part of a criminal gang?

Lightbulb Sun

pickarooney wrote: »

There's a problem with huge violence against everyone in Juarez. No reason to think women would be excluded. Between the unfortunate banality of the event and the adequate sentencing of the culprits, there's not much to comment on .

Aye, it's one of the most dangerous cities in the world. The yearly murder statistics are ridiculous.

Menas

25,000 people were murdered in Mexico last year. In count terms this is the third highest in the world after Brazil and India both of which have much larger populations.
But still Mexico only has the 25th highest rate of murder (per 100k) in the world.

The killing described in this article is just one of many in that country.
Sad as it is, is not an international news story in my opinion so not sure why we have a thread on it.

old hippy

Trigger Happy wrote: »

25,000 people were murdered in Mexico last year. In count terms this is the third highest in the world after Brazil and India both of which have much larger populations.
But still Mexico only has the 25th highest rate of murder (per 100k) in the world.

The killing described in this article is just one of many in that country.
Sad as it is, is not an international news story in my opinion so not sure why we have a thread on it.

To make people aware? Why is, say, the murder of 6 kids in the UK more or less worthy than this story? Why is one of international interest and not the other?

Not having a go, just curious.

pickarooney

Murdering your own children for money displays a morbidly fascinating character; killing a cop is nothing we don't see every day of the week.

old hippy

pickarooney wrote: »

Murdering your own children for money displays a morbidly fascinating character; killing a cop is nothing we don't see every day of the week.

Not interesting enough, hmm? Ok, well, I tried.

Menas

old hippy wrote: »

To make people aware? Why is, say, the murder of 6 kids in the UK more or less worthy than this story? Why is one of international interest and not the other?

Not having a go, just curious.

The 6 kids murder is a very unusual tragedy and has an irish link which helps get us interested on this side of the pond.

Purely from a tabloid perspective it had sex, drugs, benefits sponger, man with 17 kids, two 'wives' in same house, previous TV appearances by the parents etc.... Very unusual set up and more than enough to peak the interest.
It also happened in a 1st world country where murder rates are low and child murder is very rare.

The Mexican story is one of many similar stories that sadly come out of that country. Indeed some of the murders over there are more newsworthy in terms of how the bodies are left as a warning to others.

Pompey Magnus

old hippy wrote: »

Why is, say, the murder of 6 kids in the UK more or less worthy than this story?

Why is the murder of a feminist activist more or less worthy of a thread on here (or a BBC news article) than one on any particular male victim of the violence, especially considering men make up a hugely disproportionate majority of the victims?

SeanW

OP: why is this a gender issue? People (both men and women) are murdered all the time in Juarez city for little or no reason. The circumstances, from what I've read, easily dicate the victim could have been a man it would have made no difference to the murderers?

Nodin

SeanW wrote: »

OP: why is this a gender issue? People (both men and women) are murdered all the time in Juarez city for little or no reason. The circumstances, from what I've read, easily dicate the victim could have been a man it would have made no difference to the murderers?

The rape and murder of women in that town is notorious, even in mexico. You might do some research on the matter.

Oranage2

old hippy wrote: »

To make people aware? Why is, say, the murder of 6 kids in the UK more or less worthy than this story? Why is one of international interest and not the other?

Not having a go, just curious.

As people already pointed out about UK one.

one I find fascinating is how a rape in India will set boards off like wild fire yet this Mexican murder doesn't.

maybe it comes down to that we don't really know anything about Mexico, central America and south America, though we'd have at least a little information on former countries of the British empire.

smash

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Why are people reacting so weirdly to this thread. AH is not the "Irish only news" forum.

Speaking for myself. I get quite bored of opening up the forum to headlines about some morbid shít that happened over the other side of the world.

Nodin

Oranage2 wrote: »

As people already pointed out about UK one.

one I find fascinating is how a rape in India will set boards off like wild fire yet this Mexican murder doesn't.

maybe it comes down to that we don't really know anything about Mexico, central America and south America, though we'd have at least a little information on former countries of the British empire.

I think a woman getting on a bus in a busy city and being gang raped, then killed by having a metal bar rammed up her anus repeatedly would register on a great number of radars.

Patrick2010

Anyone interested in the drugs war in Mexico will find interesting info here...
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/

Airitech

Oranage2 wrote: »

maybe it comes down to that we don't really know anything about Mexico, central America and south America, though we'd have at least a little information on former countries of the British empire.

It think this has a lot to do with it. The UK would have an interest in Indian affairs, given the size if the Indian community there and it being a former colony.

Because we have such exposure to British media we were made more aware of it than we would otherwise have been.

old hippy

smash wrote: »

Speaking for myself. I get quite bored of opening up the forum to headlines about some morbid shít that happened over the other side of the world.

It's a tricky one alright. I don't wish to be morbid, posting a thread like this.

I don't know, sometimes certain sections of boards seem parochial with the same old faces (myself included) posting on any number of similar topics.

I'd post some happy "and finally in the news tonight" stuff but I rather think people prefer to discuss the angsty stuff.

Oranage2

Nodin wrote: »

I think a woman getting on a bus in a busy city and being gang raped, then killed by having a metal bar rammed up her anus repeatedly would register on a great number of radars.

No you'd be wrong there, look at some central African countries, fathers forced to rape their daughters, kids being raped on their way to school.

Also gang rapes are very common in central and south American,
We hear very little of this.

Czarcasm

Nodin wrote: »

The rape and murder of women in that town is notorious, even in mexico. You might do some research on the matter.

It's surely not as notorious as you might think then if you have to tell somebody to research the issue? I'd certainly never heard of a small town in Mexico before now. I see violence closer to home as an issue we should look at before we start worrying about issues halfway round the world.

In saying that, Boards.ie is an Irish based website aimed at an Irish audience, bad shìt happens all over the world on a daily basis, one can't fix the world, but one can make a good start by concerning oneself with what happens in their own back garden so to speak, before concerning themselves with what is happening on the other side of the world.

old hippy

Czarcasm wrote: »

one can't fix the world, but one can make a good start by concerning oneself with what happens in their own back garden so to speak, before concerning themselves with what is happening on the other side of the world.

The world belongs to all of us. It's not a crime to care. It'd be a crime not to.

Airitech

Oranage2 wrote: »

No you'd be wrong there, look at some central African countries, fathers forced to rape their daughters, kids being raped on their way to school.

Also gang rapes are very common in central and south American,
We hear very little of this.

We don't have sufficient ties with those countries through culture language or people to generate enough interest among Irish people. The media, who are in the business of selling papers or advertising time, don't see it as lucrative enough to report on.

Social media is changing that now but there still has to some connection or angle for us to take notice. Rightly or wrongly, something terrible happening to someone somewhere on the planet often isn't enough.

Nodin

Czarcasm wrote: »

It's surely not as notorious as you might think then if you have to tell somebody to research the issue?
I'd certainly never heard of a small town in Mexico before now.
.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/2003_44_fri_02.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12177543

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/04/mexico-drugs-death-squads-juarez

Czarcasm wrote: »

I see violence closer to home as an issue we should look at before we start worrying about issues halfway round the world.

.

Good fer you. Here's a biccy.

Czarcasm

old hippy wrote: »

The world belongs to all of us. It's not a crime to care. It'd be a crime not to.

I completely agree with you old hippy in that respect.

So, what have you done today to effect a change for the better in your own community?

My name is URL

Oranage2 wrote: »

No you'd be wrong there, look at some central African countries, fathers forced to rape their daughters, kids being raped on their way to school.

Also gang rapes are very common in central and south American,
We hear very little of this.

I don't understand why people use this line of reasoning. Just because something is common, or happens more in one area than another; doesn't mean that an individual case is not newsworthy or remarkable.

Most people don't go searching the internet for the most brutal stories of the day. If it's something they read about in the course of their day then they'll tend to discuss it. Part of the issue is that more often than not, these kind of stories don't make it into the news-streams of most people in developed countries. Hell.. most of the time it would barely make national news in whatever country it is.

You can't really blame people for that, or use it a means of playing down those stories that people are aware of. There's nothing at all bad about incidents like this being made known to wide audiences.. it'd be worse if we all lived in a state of blissful ignorance.

Oranage2

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't understand why people use this line of reasoning. Just because something is common, or happens more in one area than another; doesn't mean that an individual case is not newsworthy or remarkable.

Most people don't go searching the internet for the most brutal stories of the day. If it's something they read about in the course of their day then they'll tend to discuss it. Part of the issue is that more often than not, these kind of stories don't make it into the news-streams of most people in developed countries. Hell.. most of the time it would barely make national news in whatever country it is.

You can't really blame people for that, or use it a means of playing down those stories that people are aware of. There's nothing at all bad about incidents like this being made known to wide audiences.. it'd be worse if we all lived in a state of blissful ignorance.

I don't know how you got any of that from my post, someone said horrific gang rape would register on a number of radars, I was just pointing out that they don't.


Don't get me wrong I agree with your post.

Czarcasm

Nodin wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/2003_44_fri_02.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12177543

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/04/mexico-drugs-death-squads-juarez

Thanks Nodin, any chance you could find me a link in the media about the two eight year old girls I talked to yesterday while waiting for the bus who told me all about what they get up to with their eleven year old "boyfriends", "because there's nothing else to do around here".

Two hours later I had a friend of mine who works in Smyths Toy Stores deliver out a couple of outdoor play sets and some footballs. Didn't cost me a whole pile and it gave them something else to do besides being holed up in burned out houses having sex.

Good fer you. Here's a biccy.

Don't even get me started about biscuits! I gave the cleaner money yesterday to get some decent chocolate biscuits for the office because all they had when I looked in the press was them rich tea crap. My boss out there had a shìt fit.

I hope she doesn't find out who was responsible for giving the swings and footballs to the children, seeing as they're not covered by insurance either, be terrible if they grazed their knees like while the council dragged it's heels over a playground that's still only in the planning stages!

Nodin

Czarcasm wrote: »

Thanks Nodin, (.....)besides being holed up in burned out houses having sex.!

Do us a favour, oul flower, and tell me why you feel the need to slag off people who are moved by a particular story (and don't tell me you're not).

After ye've done that, you might tell me how you think its appropriate to use a murder to blow your own trumpet.

Czarcasm

Nodin wrote: »

Do us a favour, oul flower, and tell me why you feel the need to slag off people who are moved by a particular story (and don't tell me you're not).

I'm not slagging anyone off Nodin. I'm simply pointing out that people should be more concerned about things they CAN change, rather than things they can't. That whole Kony2012 thing, who gives a shìt about that now, after the huge facebook campaign, etc?

If the OP had been worded differently to get a discussion started about the issue of violence against women and used the story as an example, then I might have understood they wanted to have a discussion about the issue, and not just "random news article plucked from the àrsehole of nowhere". Anyone could type "violence against women" into google now and come up with at least a thousand international articles from places very few have ever heard of. You could fill AH in a matter of minutes with individual threads for each individual case.

Did you mean I wasn't moved by the story, or for me not to deny I was slagging people off? I wasn't slagging people off, nor have I read the story, nor the articles you linked to. It happened in Mexico, there's fùckall I can do about it.

After ye've done that, you might tell me how you think its appropriate to use a murder to blow your own trumpet.

Nodin you're WAY off there, I was giving an example of how little effort it actually takes to effect change within your own community, as distinct from getting all indignant about something I can do nothing about.

I think it's best we leave it there rather than derail the thread any further with a petty squabble.

Nodin

Czarcasm wrote: »

I'm not slagging anyone off Nodin. ......

What did I say about not coming back and saying you weren't? Its exactly what you're at.

Czarcasm wrote: »

Nodin you're WAY off there......

emmm...no. I'd say I was bang on. As evidence I present

Thanks Nodin, any chance you could find me a link in the media about the two eight year old girls I talked to yesterday while waiting for the bus who told me all about what they get up to with their eleven year old "boyfriends", "because there's nothing else to do around here".

Two hours later I had a friend of mine who works in Smyths Toy Stores deliver out a couple of outdoor play sets and some footballs. Didn't cost me a whole pile and it gave them something else to do besides being holed up in burned out houses having sex.

and - as if we hadn't been impressed enough - we had more

I hope she doesn't find out who was responsible for giving the swings and footballs to the children, seeing as they're not covered by insurance either, be terrible if they grazed their knees like while the council dragged it's heels over a playground that's still only in the planning stages!

...just to ram home the point.

SeanW

Nodin wrote: »

The rape and murder of women in that town is notorious, even in mexico. You might do some research on the matter.

I don't doubt it - I don't disagree that Juarez is a violent hellhole with murder (of both genders IIRC) being off the charts.

My question for old-hippy was this: the crime in question appears to be gender blind.
3 drunken gang members claim to be gang members, victim confronts them (unarmed and unprotected) claiming to be an undercover cop. So the 3 gangsters kill the victim.

How does the fact that the victim was a woman make it specifically a gender issue? The victim could just easily have been a man, the killers would have killed him just the same. How does the victims gender make this case different?

My name is URL

SeanW wrote: »

I don't doubt it - I don't disagree that Juarez is a violent hellhole with murder (of both genders IIRC) being off the charts.

My question for old-hippy was this: the crime in question appears to be gender blind.
3 drunken gang members claim to be gang members, victim confronts them (unarmed and unprotected) claiming to be an undercover cop. So the 3 gangsters kill the victim.

How does the fact that the victim was a woman make it specifically a gender issue? The victim could just easily have been a man, the killers would have killed him just the same. How does the victims gender make this case different?

Because she was obviously targeted because of her gender, and her attempts to throw light on the overall issue of violence against women?

Asking why her gender is important or pertinent is like asking why a black person's plight was more notable or concerning than the plight of white men during times of segregation. The overriding factor being that one group is predominantly overwhelmingly responsible for the persecution / abuses of the other.

Czarcasm

Nodin wrote: »

...just to ram home the point.

Nodin will you stop, you're taking me up completely wrong. My point was, and still is, that we can fill AH with threads about individual cases like that in the OP, but before one does that, and I have no doubt old hippy or yourself care about the world and care about people, so what have you done CLOSER TO HOME, before you concerned yourself with what happens in a town in Mexico?

Carlos Orange

Nodin wrote: »

The rape and murder of women in that town is notorious, even in mexico. You might do some research on the matter.

I googled and it seems 90% of the people murdered there in the 90s were men.
Is it different now?

Sometimes I get this weird vibe off society that crime against men is kind of like crime against criminals. If some drug dealer tops another drug dealer a lot of people aren't bothered as long as no civilians are involved.

Pompey Magnus

My name is URL wrote: »

Because she was obviously targeted because of her gender, and her attempts to throw light on the overall issue of violence against women?

According to the court case she was killed because of what she claimed her profession was (an undercover police officer), not because she was a woman. In that case the topic of the thread should have been the issue of violence against law enforcement officers in Mexico.