Water fluoridation should be scrapped!

If anybody is interested in ending water fluoridation in Ireland, you can sign this petition.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/petition/cessation_of_fluoridation_of_Irish_public_water/

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Yes an internet petition is definitely going to change things.

It'll be presented to judges in the High Court next year. It's just a way of indicating the number of people opposed to the policy.

blatantrereg wrote: »

How do you stop your pineal gland getting calcified?

Vitamin K2 might help. A lot of studies have been carried out on it's ability to decalcify the arteries. Most of the studies come from Japan as Vit K2 is found in Kimchi which is one of the stables of the Japanese diet. But I have never seen anything in relation to the Pineal Gland

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Any peer reviewed ones ?

And doesn't it get banned a lot ?

It's not all it's claimed to be
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/pub/2714.htm

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s003920170043

"Vitamin K has a key function in the synthesis of at least two proteins involved in calcium and bone metabolism, namely osteocalcin and matrix Gla-protein (MGP). MGP was shown to be a strong inhibitor of vascular calcification"


http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/6/1799.short

"Coronary artery calcification (CAC) is an independent predictor of cardiovascular disease. A preventive role for vitamin K in CAC progression has been proposed on the basis of the properties of matrix Gla protein (MGP) as a vitamin K–dependent calcification inhibitor"

"Phylloquinone(vitamin K1) supplementation slows the progression of CAC in healthy older adults with preexisting CAC, independent of its effect on total MGP concentrations"

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0021915008005078

"This study shows that high dietary menaquinone (vitamin k2) intake, but probably not phylloquinone (vitamin K1), is associated with reduced coronary calcification. Adequate menaquinone intakes could therefore be important to prevent cardiovascular disease."

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/134/11/3100.short

"The relative risk (RR) of CHD mortality was reduced in the mid and upper tertiles of dietary menaquinone compared to the lower tertile [RR = 0.73 (95% CI: 0.45, 1.17) and 0.43 (0.24, 0.77), respectively]. Intake of menaquinone was also inversely related to all-cause mortality [RR = 0.91 (0.75, 1.09) and 0.74 (0.59, 0.92), respectively] and severe aortic calcification [odds ratio of 0.71 (0.50, 1.00) and 0.48 (0.32, 0.71), respectively."


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049384807004562

"The results show that the Gla — but not the Glu-peptide inhibited the transformation which provide evidence that the Gla region in MGP is directly involved in the BMP-2/MGP interaction and emphasizes the importance of the vitamin K-dependent modification of MGP. From the data obtained from the microarray analysis, we focused on two quantitatively altered cDNAs representing proteins known to be associated with vessel wall calcification. DT-diaphorase of the vitamin K-cycle, showed increased gene expression with a 4.8-fold higher specific activity in MK4 treated cells. Osteoprotegrin gene expression was down regulated and osteoprotegrin protein secretion from the MK4 treated cells was lowered to 1.8-fold. These findings suggest that MK4 acts as an anti-calcification component in the vessel wall."

Parsley wrote: »

EU limits for fluoride ions in water is less than one part per million. Yes, for every million molecules of H2O in your tap water, there isn't even one fluoride ion. This is checked pretty goddamn regularly too. Utterly miniscule from a toxicity point of view, but potentially beficial for teeth.

And as for hydrofluorosilicic acid being manufactured as the waste product of whatever stuff you listed, I worked briefly for the company that makes 95% of the country's water treatment chemicals, in the quality analysis lab, analysing the quality of this compound you seem to think is a load of muck shovelled from reactor beds. There are extremely strict guidelines for the quality/purity/acidity etc. of the samples.

tl;dr - OP doesn't know what's really going on and has been duped by paranoid conspiracy theories. Keep drinking tap water.

I learned that parts per million was milligrams per litre not a ratio of molecules. Google confirmed. Personally I don't think that fluoridation is something to be seriously worried about but I'd definitely support some unbiased research in the area.

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Not all of those relate to K2

All of those relate to K2

and unless I've missed something they refer to a preventative role rather than removal of calcium from blood vessels

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1728507.html

"It has specifically been discovered that high intake of vitamin K can lead to removal of calcified precipitates from blood vessels that have already been affected by pre-existing calcification. This is a new and stunning discovery with great importance for patients with existing artery disease. Implications for the nutrition industry are that vitamin K-enriched foods and food supplements may be developed."

This is very interesting, seems like a pharmaceutical company has taken a European patient for the "Use of vitamin K for reversing calcification of blood vessels"

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1728507.pdf

blatantrereg wrote: »

Does fluoride accumulate in the pineal gland:

-because it is not excreted once it's there?

-or because it is removed from there at a lower rate than it is consumed?

blatantrereg wrote: »

Does fluoride accumulate in the pineal gland:

-because it is not excreted once it's there?

-or because it is removed from there at a lower rate than it is consumed?

The brain is protected by the Brain Blood Barrier. "Fluoride metabolism in the CNS has not been systematically studied. It is generally believed that F has no effect on the CNS because it is excluded from brain by the blood-brain barrier (Whitford et al, 1979). Whole brain has a low F-content like normal soft tissues elsewhere in the body." luke 2001

But the Pineal Gland is the one part of the brain which is not protected by the Brain Blood Barrier

"The intensity of the toxic effects of most drugs depends upon their concentration at the site of action. The mineralizing tissues (bone and teeth) accumulate high concentrations of F and are the first to show toxic reactions to F. Hence, their reactions to F have been especially well studied. If F accumulates in the pineal gland, then this points to a gap in our knowledge about whether or not F affects pineal physiology. It was the lack of knowledge in this area that prompted my study." Lukw 2001

" we now know that fluoride readily accumulates in the human pineal gland. In fact, the aged pineal contains more fluoride than any other normal soft tissue"

"In conclusion, the human pineal gland contains the highest concentration of fluoride in the body. Fluoride is associated with depressed pineal melatonin synthesis by prepubertal gerbils and an accelerated onset of sexual maturation in the female gerbil. The results strengthen the hypothesis that the pineal has a role in the timing of the onset of puberty. Whether or not fluoride interferes with pineal function in humans requires further investigation."

Unfortunately there has never been further investigation into this, which I find very odd.

jh79 wrote: »

so in summary, no studies show toxicity at 1ppm and the build up of fluoride in the pineal gland shows no obvious impairment of function.

There have never been any studies into the impact of Fluoride on human Pineal function. They have done studies on gerbils and found that "Fluoride is associated with depressed pineal melatonin synthesis by prepubertal gerbils and an accelerated onset of sexual maturation in the female gerbil. The results strengthen the hypothesis that the pineal has a role in the timing of the onset of puberty"

Normaly positive studies on animals are followed by tests on humans but for some reason this isn't the case.

jh79 wrote: »

Maybe it wasn't the smoking gun they thought it would be and they abandoned the studies?

Luke 2001 was the first evidence that fluoride accumulates in the Pineal gland

A paper concluding that no real impact on pineal function probably wouldn't be deemed interesting enough to be published.

A paper concluding that Pineal function isn't impacted by Fluoride would be highly south after once it was established that Fluoride accumulates in the Pineal Gland. When you consider that governments across the world chose to medicate their citizens any study which would show the safety of this practice would be sought after.

On the other hand I doubt there would be much funding available for studies which might show that the addition of Fluoride to drinking water might inhibit the function of the Pineal gland.

It is all very vague, how severe was this effect on the gerbils? How did this correlate to the levels of fluoride in the pineal gland? What concentration difference would you expect to see in the pineal gland if the gerbils were given unadulterated water vs that in which fluoride is controlled at 1ppm and how significant an effect would this have on melatonin synthesis / sexual maturation?

" In conclusion, F inhibits pineal MT synthesis in gerbils up until the time of sexual maturation. Finally, F was associated with a significant acceleration of pubertal development in female gerbils using body weights, age of vaginal opening and accelerated development of the ventral gland. At 16 weeks, the mean testes weight of HF males was significantly less (p < 0.002) than that of the LF males. The results suggest that F is associated with low circulating levels of MT and this leads to an accelerated sexual maturation in female gerbils" Luke 1997