Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

3ndahalfof6 · 27-03-2013 09:40PM

darkhorse wrote: »

Were they murdered?

Who knows what their wives planned once they got together.

Big Davey · 27-03-2013 09:40PM

darkhorse wrote: »

Were they murdered?

Please take the time to read through the posts I have answered this question twice already. Murdered, died, employer negligence it does not matter a death is a death. Do you feel a gardas life is worth more than a carpenter or a plumber ?

dj jarvis · 27-03-2013 09:40PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't care about what happened with their benchmarking. Nothing to do with me.

What I care about is people being able to air their grievances and being able to represent their members and that is not happening here. It will lead to trouble and the public as usual will suffer as a result.

They should be allowed into the room to state their grievances.

ah look , give it up
you can ignore that facts all you like
they had the chance to be represented at the talks , they walked out
they played a BAD hand far to early , so the garda should be getting at the "union" and no one else, it was them that ****ed up and played right into the govs hands

and they can voice the grievances , in a job that allows it , but they wont leave and they wont strike , becasue lets face it they are well looked after and MOST have a handy number.they know what side their bread is buttered

not all garda stations are in Dublin or cork city ctr , not all deserve the respect and reward some deserve.

VinLieger · 27-03-2013 09:43PM

JRant wrote: »

Who cares? Seriously.

How many employees have their pay cut by management and are then merely informed of any changes once a decision has been made.

I respect the job AGS do but right now it's a straight choice between protecting their pay or protecting services to the millions of citizens in this country.

It's nowhere near a straight choice, they are fighting for their pay AND cuts to how they do their everyday job, the fact you think that shows how little you understand of the job Gardai actually do, they are under resourced as it is

dj jarvis · 27-03-2013 09:44PM

darkhorse wrote: »

Why not? How better off are we since this this government came to power. Striking en masse might just have woke this government up.

striking is great - and might wake them up , but some are advocating burning the feckin country down - utter ****e talk,
****e talk from people who are displaying a utter lack of understanding what happens when you start burning and fighting.

sure strike all we want , but trust me , the money will be taken from somewhere , so if not the garda , maybe you , or your sick granny ect ect

VinLieger · 27-03-2013 09:45PM

Big Davey wrote: »

Please take the time to read through the posts I have answered this question twice already. Murdered, died, employer negligence it does not matter a death is a death. Do you feel a gardas life is worth more than a carpenter or a plumber ?

No but a gardas job is to put his or her life in harms way, do carpenters or plumbers intentionally risk their life on a daily basis?

3ndahalfof6 · 27-03-2013 09:45PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

ah look , give it up
you can ignore that facts all you like
they had the chance to be represented at the talks , they walked out
they played a BAD hand far to early , so the garda should be getting at the "union" and no one else, it was them that ****ed up and played right into the govs hands

and they can voice the grievances , in a job that allows it , but they wont leave and they wont strike , becasue lets face it they are well looked after and MOST have a handy number.they know what side their bread is buttered

not all garda stations are in Dublin or cork city ctr , not all deserve the respect and reward some deserve.

While this is true, it is more than likely off a hazelnut in every bite.

darkhorse · 27-03-2013 09:48PM

Big Davey wrote: »

Murdered, died, what's the difference.

Get yourself a gun, shoot someone, and when you're up in court, tell the judge that the victim died, see what he'd say.

A_Sober_Paddy · 27-03-2013 09:48PM

There is alternatives to the blue flu...I've heard a couple, one of which is genius...a proper screw you shatter

Fred Cohen · 27-03-2013 09:50PM

I see the GRA are not inviting shatter to their AGM

The GRA said it was not prepared to extend an invitation to Minister Shatter as the association had already voted no confidence in him.

What are the odds the commissioner will take disciplinary action against all 8,000 of them?

But then again this is the guy who removed the two gardai, who blew the whistle on the penalty points sham, from the pulse system.

I always thought the role of any CEO was to leave the organisation in a better position than you got it in. Mr Callinan must be feel very proud to have a force where morale is at the level of a caterpillars navel and then to keep digging.

dj jarvis · 27-03-2013 09:52PM

VinLieger wrote: »

No but a gardas job is to put his or her life in harms way, do carpenters or plumbers intentionally risk their life on a daily basis?

to be fair they dont , but its wrong to say all garda do either.
a bit of balance instead of cheer leading might help the debate.

Boombastic · 27-03-2013 09:52PM

Fred Cohen wrote: »

I see the GRA are not inviting shatter to their AGM

What are the odds the commissioner will take disciplinary action against all 8,000 of them?

But then again this is the guy who removed the two gardai, who blew the whistle on the penalty points sham, from the pulse system.

I always thought the role of any CEO was to leave the organisation in a better position than you got it in. Mr Callinan must be feel very proud to have a force where morale is at the level of a caterpillars navel and then to keep digging.

He could always just cut their wages

VinLieger · 27-03-2013 09:53PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

to be fair they dont , but its wrong to say all garda do either.
a bit of balance instead of cheer leading might help the debate.

I would argue the opposite, they may not do it everyday but they are trained to and if ordered expected to

dj jarvis · 27-03-2013 09:55PM

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

There is alternatives to the blue flu...I've heard a couple, one of which is genius...a proper screw you shatter

and if it does not endanger state security , citizens safety , or cause one extra crime to be committed , then they should do it,

but get it wrong and they will be held to account for a long long time,
no government, of ANY HUE will forget a security force turning on them.

They should go very carefully - they have been burnt once by this government , they will do it again, and poss with some justification if the action goes wrong.

3ndahalfof6 · 27-03-2013 09:57PM

Boombastic wrote: »

He could always just cut their wages

This, instead of paying them and all PSW the big wage, just give them 30k with no deductions, is it not the same thing

I forgot about the kids, runs into a forest for protection, fook we dont have any of them, runs into the woods, ahhhhhhhhhh boooolocks im in me back garden.

JRant · 27-03-2013 09:58PM

VinLieger wrote: »

No but a gardas job is to put his or her life in harms way, do carpenters or plumbers intentionally risk their life on a daily basis?

Electricians do.

dj jarvis · 27-03-2013 09:58PM

VinLieger wrote: »

I would argue the opposite, they may not do it everyday but they are trained to and if ordered expected to

no garda will EVER be ordered to give their life , they may give it voluntarily , and tragically , but they are not expected to die on the job , it does just happen sometimes , as it does with plumbers and farmers ect ect

tayto lover · 27-03-2013 09:59PM

Boombastic wrote: »

Yes the AGSI were until they walked out

AGSI - Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors

Is this your good cop/bad cop routine? :pac:

They were NOT in the room and you have to lie about it.
Says everything about you :pac:
Couldn';t admit it.

sfwcork · 27-03-2013 10:00PM

I find it laughable how ppl call the tds corrupt while the sun shines out the guards rear end

Did the tds quash over 50k penalty points and fines

tayto lover · 27-03-2013 10:01PM

JRant wrote: »

Who cares? Seriously.

How many employees have their pay cut by management and are then merely informed of any changes once a decision has been made.

I respect the job AGS do but right now it's a straight choice between protecting their pay or protecting services to the millions of citizens in this country.

I just happen to care. I'm all for equal rights but it seems some are not.

Lelantos · 27-03-2013 10:02PM

JRant wrote: »

Electricians do.

Only if they're colourblind

tayto lover · 27-03-2013 10:02PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

ah look , give it up
you can ignore that facts all you like
they had the chance to be represented at the talks , they walked out
they played a BAD hand far to early , so the garda should be getting at the "union" and no one else, it was them that ****ed up and played right into the govs hands

and they can voice the grievances , in a job that allows it , but they wont leave and they wont strike , becasue lets face it they are well looked after and MOST have a handy number.they know what side their bread is buttered

not all garda stations are in Dublin or cork city ctr , not all deserve the respect and reward some deserve.

You are ignoring the facts.
They were NOT in the room.

JRant · 27-03-2013 10:03PM

VinLieger wrote: »

It's nowhere near a straight choice, they are fighting for their pay AND cuts to how they do their everyday job, the fact you think that shows how little you understand of the job Gardai actually do, they are under resourced as it is

Ah yes, the aul you know nothing rebuttle.

Now are they unresourced due to the;
a: current pay structures
b: the exchequer being broke as a joke or
c: a mixture of a & b

twowheelsonly · 27-03-2013 10:04PM

Boombastic wrote: »

Link please

Unfortunately I don't have a link.

However, the way that this works is that it takes place in the LRC in Ballsbridge and there are actually only a handful of reps, a cross section representing all the groups, in the room negotiating with the 'Official' side. They first work out an 'Overall' plan (which they had been doing since January) then work on the individual tweaks for each sector. As this second part is going on the negotiators come back and forth between each group. Unionised groups can become entrenched and stick to their guns and have stronger powers by virtue of their Union status. Non-Unionised groups can make their opinions known but basically they're fishing for crumbs. Generally though their opinions will be listened to and the will pick up crumbs. How many crumbs at any time is anybodies guess.

This time around it upset the Gardai as most of the cuts seemed to be aimed at allowances/premium payments etc so it was only a small sector would get the worst of the hits. They felt that their opinions were not being brought back in to the table and that they, and other 24/7 members, were the sacrificial lambs. At the time the were probably right to walk but in hindsight, wonderful that it is, they made an error of judgement. They were left with no crumbs.

Once they walked they took their opinion and wishlist with them and so were left with nothing but what had been originally on the table. Had they stayed, I have absolutely no doubt that they would have done ok for their members. Hindsight is wonderful though and at the time the hackles were up and they did what they thought was right.

3ndahalfof6 · 27-03-2013 10:05PM

VinLieger wrote: »

No but a gardas job is to put his or her life in harms way, do carpenters or plumbers intentionally risk their life on a daily basis?

So they wake up in the morning and quiff their hair or rub their bald patch, and pronounce to the mirror, be killed or kill,

while the guy on the site is saying, they do not give a fook.

tayto lover · 27-03-2013 10:06PM

dj jarvis wrote: »

and if it does not endanger state security , citizens safety , or cause one extra crime to be committed , then they should do it,

but get it wrong and they will be held to account for a long long time,
no government, of ANY HUE will forget a security force turning on them.

They should go very carefully - they have been burnt once by this government , they will do it again, and poss with some justification if the action goes wrong.

I'm sure they are more worried about paying their bills than this being held to account nonsense.

3ndahalfof6 · 27-03-2013 10:06PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You are ignoring the facts.
They were NOT in the room.

With the rope in the room.

kala85 · 27-03-2013 10:08PM

What is he actually go to say to these guards? or what will they actually be disciplined for. I think its an absolute disgrace.
What "you walked out of the conference? You disrespected the minister a paid politician?". So what , they walked out. They could have walked out to go to the toilet. They werent on duty at the time . They are entitled to protest.
The rest of the union should have walked out as well. Alan Shatter is a disgrace to this country. He doesnt care. He's on 150K a year, two and a half grand a week. Most gardai arent even getting that a month. Hes getting 12k a year tax free to get to the dail. If they had to pay out of their own pockets for diesel and petrol expenses , they would soon know all about it.

Most other people are broke paying the high cost of diesel and petrol prices. What the government want is for people to be afraid to protest. These politicians are living in another reality. People are broke, bought mortgages at the height of the boom and living from paycheck to paycheck.
Fine Gael TDs dont care. Why should they take another pay cut when the politicians are creaming it in

I think this will backfire on the commissioner and the minister yet big time.

What they are trying to do is to provoke a blue flu it seems. The rest of the unions should stand together with the GRA and refuse to have a pay cut. If the rest of the unions stood together they could shut down the country for a week. Kenny might get a reality check. Some of the unions are almost branches of the governemnt they way they are in negotiations in Croke Park. Public service pay is down 15% with all the pay cuts and levys. Croke Park 1 didnt even last its full term. Another pay cut probably coming and TDs creaming it in. When are the TDs going to have a pay cut and an end to their big pensions.
Whats wrong is that all the union leaders are on massive salaries , all watching their own back to get the next step up on the ladder.Except the Garda rep bodies , who refused rightly to accept the paycuts. Gardai deserve to be paid appropriately for the work they do. They shouldnt be bullied by Shatter and the government.

dj jarvis · 27-03-2013 10:08PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You are ignoring the facts.
They were NOT in the room.

i give up on you - you do understand THEY WERE NEVER IN THE ROOM - ever

and for a good reason - i have said why it is a good reason , if you dont or cant understand that , then sorry for ya

i think most here are getting it - you should read up on why they dont have a union - it really very logical and practical
i could spell it out for you but im not in the habit of banging my head against a wall

good luck with your crusade for free speech , but wont help the garda anytime soon

Treehousetim · 27-03-2013 10:08PM

Won't be voting fine gael next election on account of that shatter idiot. I've no connection to the gardai except dealing with them as a citizen. Just he puts me right off fine gael. Fair play to the gardai. I admire their stance.

Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

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