Baby shot by muggers because his mother had no money.

Overheal · 23-03-2013 03:07PM

woodoo wrote: »

Georgia has the death penalty so i'd say he will be killed by the state. Maybe he had a tough upbringing though, or his mammy didn't love him enough.

There are about 100 death row inmates in the Georgia DoC, some have been there as long as July 1989. In 2012 there were no lethal injections. On average, 3-4 LDs happen per year and about as many convicts are admitted to death row, but this varies. Some years there have been neither executions or new inmates.

http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/Research/Annual_CY_roster_death_row_inmates.html

Whether or not the shooter gets Death or Life, I'm just highlighting the fact that whether or not a state has the death penalty, it does not necessitate that it is used in the majority of cases.

irishgirl19 · 23-03-2013 04:37PM

how could anyone do this. hope they get the death penalty

Nabber · 23-03-2013 04:39PM

Poor child and mother. That's no way to lose a child.
something I know I'd never come to terms with.

It's unfortunate that the death will be over shadowed by something more heinous.

That's the problem with world media. You here the stories that you thought impossible.

Dtp79 · 23-03-2013 05:16PM

Nodin wrote: »

Yep, in Londis - where the pulse of the prison system is regularily taken.

Learn to read. I said it was for the pampered prisoners special needs like steak etc

anncoates · 23-03-2013 05:28PM

sfwcork wrote: »

I wonder if this had happened in a smaller or third world country would there even be a story on sky about it

If my cat had lasers mounted above his eyes, he could shoot dogs from the garden wall.

Mr. teddywinkles · 23-03-2013 05:29PM

What kinda f**ked up minds do these people have.
I dont care what way you grew up on the street or hard life growing up or how many gang related crimes you carry out. Can you just not say to yourself that is a fooked up heinous act to even think of carrying out. These d**ks are warpped sh*ts.

Nodin · 23-03-2013 07:42PM

Seachmall wrote: »

I suppose the courts (or prosecution) aren't necessarily the ones who should be making these judgements.

Deciding how further someone will develop and whether or not their actions as a minor determine their character as an adult is a bit tricky I suspect, especially as you can't diagnose someone with a disorder (like sociopathy) until they're an adult which creates a catch-22.

The problem is that making such an assesment after a crime is always going to be a dubious process.

Seachmall · 23-03-2013 08:05PM

Nodin wrote: »

The problem is that making such an assesment after a crime is always going to be a dubious process.

The criteria for diagnosing sociopathy (Anti-Social Personality Disorder) generally focuses on behaviours starting from the early teens. How the individual acted before the crime would tell you a lot more about any disorder they may have than the crime itself.

Presumably a professional would recognise the crime itself is relatively insignificant in the larger scheme of things and look to identify a pattern in their behaviour over a number of years.

Granted, however, that [subjective] interpretation could be biased as a result of the crime committed. But hopefully a professional could remain objective.

Nodin · 23-03-2013 08:06PM

Seachmall wrote: »

The criteria for diagnosing sociopathy (Anti-Social Personality Disorder) generally focuses on behaviours starting from the early teens. How the individual acted before the crime would tell you a lot more about any disorder they may have than the crime itself.

Presumably a professional would recognise the crime itself is relatively insignificant in the larger scheme of things and look to identify a pattern in their behaviour over a number of years (which, granted, requires an interpretation that could be swayed by the crime itself).

But of course this is hypothetical because you can't be diagnosed with a personality disorder until you're 18 year olds (which again is an arbitrary number when talking about a specific individual).

I was referring to the whole "tried as an adult" thing....

Seachmall · 23-03-2013 08:09PM

Nodin wrote: »

I was referring to the whole "tried as an adult" thing....

Oh sorry, I had sociopathy in my head and lost the run of myself :pac:.

catallus · 23-03-2013 08:23PM

This idea of anyone being a sociopath or a psychopath is a cop-out: it is just another jingoism for somebody being an asshole: it serves no other purpose but to defend the indefensible and to line the pockets of doctors and lawyers; the fact that the medical profession and courts take this crap seriously shows how far their feet are off the ground.

Seachmall · 23-03-2013 08:30PM

catallus wrote: »

it serves no other purpose but to defend the indefensible

Not sure where you're getting that from.

As far as I'm aware it has never been used as a defense but it has been used in prosecutions to demonstrate the person is incapable of rehabilitation and therefore should receive the most severe sentencing and it has been used in parole hearings as a reason to deny parole.

catallus · 23-03-2013 08:37PM

Well that's one twist that could be put on it; another would be that it is used as an excuse for the offender to be given "treatment" to "aid him" in his "rehabilitation". And it has seeped into the public consciousness as an excuse to label any chosen aberrant social behaviour as sociopathy.

Anyway it is all a bit off topic.

I think people are so aghast at this particular crime because we find it inconceivable that any person could do such a thing; which renders our ability to rationalise our silly ideas about equality and humanity moot.

Seachmall · 23-03-2013 08:43PM

catallus wrote: »

Well that's one twist that could be put on it; another would be that it is used as an excuse for the offender to be given "treatment" to "aid him" in his "rehabilitation".

There's no medically or legally accepted treatment for ASPD/sociopathy.

Current [mainstream] view is that if you are a sociopath you are beyond rehabilitation (for the time being at least).

catallus · 23-03-2013 09:06PM

The fact that the word sociopath is used at all is an indication that people will grasp at straws to rationalise away the idea of evil.

It is the concept of medicine claiming to explain the motivation of criminals that is more dangerous than anything.

Like I said before, because we cannot imagine how or why anyone would do such a thing we find ourselves at a loss to explain it in a manner which fits with our idea of equal humanity; religion used to try fill the gap, now it is psychology.

catallus · 23-03-2013 09:15PM

I'm all for research, but all this diagnosing of sociopathy to justify the existence of the extended family of ADHD, AAHD, ABCD and whatever you're having yourself is ridiculous. But the whole thing is out of the domain of those who don't specialise in the area, they have it wrapped up so tight you can't shake a stick at it. So the prescribing of powerful anti-psychotics to the young and vulnerable goes on.

Seachmall · 23-03-2013 09:15PM

catallus wrote: »

The fact that the word sociopath is used at all is an indication that people will grasp at straws to rationalise away the idea of evil.

I've never heard it used as a rationalisation, in common use it's almost synonymous with "evil".

It is the concept of medicine claiming to explain the motivation of criminals that is more dangerous than anything.

It doesn't attempt to explain any motivation. It attempts to define a pattern of behaviour common among criminals and others who, in this instance, seem to act in an unsociable manner.

Like I said before, because we cannot imagine how or why anyone would do such a thing we find ourselves at a loss to explain it in a manner which fits with our idea of equal humanity; religion used to try fill the gap, now it is psychology.

I've no problem with that comparison but I will say psychology is taking massive strides in achieving the requirements of a hard science.

For example, a main characteristic of a sociopath or psychopath is an inability to empathise. Using technology like fMRIs we can actually observe this phenomenon in real time in the brain.

Psychology doesn't attempt to excuse actions, it attempts to explain why what factors determine why someone is inclined to act in a particular way.

Understanding why people do things is not the same as justifying or excusing them.

Dwork · 23-03-2013 11:55PM

I think the main thing to take from this is never to go out with a baby unless you're carrying at least €50. Which is a good rule of thumb anyway.

southsiderosie · 24-03-2013 12:36AM

woodoo wrote: »

It may be racist to say it but i knew what colour they would be before i even opened the thread and i was right. The gangster couldn't give a **** culture among young black men has gone crazy.

Yes, it is racist to say it, especially considering how violent American society is in general.

woodoo wrote: »

I didn't even get as far as reading the name in the article. The thread title on boards was enough.

Man shoots three-month old son in front of authorities

Man shoots baby then himself

Man accused of punishing baby by shooting it with a bb gun

Icyseanfitz · 24-03-2013 12:43AM

death sentence, somebody think of the children ffs....oh yeah the bastards shot the children, kill em i say, not worth the air they breath

southsiderosie · 24-03-2013 12:48AM

Palmy wrote: »

These type's of scumbag things that happen in the States is the reason why i legally carry.I live in a gated community in an up scale part of Florida.Last year a guy in our complex was shot twice in the head at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon ffs.Another happened at a Friends work.Sitting outside in a garden bar of a nice hotel.Customer walks up to another group having a quiet drink at the bar,they have a word to each other,guy goes back to his room comes back and shoots the guy point blank in the head.Tells the guys girlfriend to let him die or she will get it too.Walks over to the bar grabs a bottle of vodka,puts the gun down and goes and waits for the police at the front of the hotel.2pm on a sunny Sunday afternoon with the garden bar packed with familys.This is crazy hope those guys fry....

How would having a gun have changed the dynamic of the baby's murder, or of what happened in the hotel? If someone is pointing a gun at you, it is already too late to do anything. I was born and raised in the US, but I still don't understand this cowboy mentality.

Ruudi_Mentari · 24-03-2013 02:53AM

I didn't realize the baby was gratituously shot in the face, that's messed up

Also that woman lost another to the knife, if that's two examples of the street culture gone mad it has really worked against her.

Killer Wench · 24-03-2013 08:07AM

*SMH*

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-arrest-teens-ga-baby-killing-18796367#.UU6lKRzCaSo

Like I said, y'all need to wait before condemning them. There is still much to learn.

Grand Moff Tarkin · 24-03-2013 12:53PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

*SMH*

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/police-arrest-teens-ga-baby-killing-18796367#.UU6lKRzCaSo

Like I said, y'all need to wait before condemning them. There is still much to learn.

So his aunt says he was home with her. He must be innocent so.

maria_81 · 24-03-2013 01:04PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

How would having a gun have changed the dynamic of the baby's murder, or of what happened in the hotel? If someone is pointing a gun at you, it is already too late to do anything. I was born and raised in the US, but I still don't understand this cowboy mentality.

That's a very fair point. The most understandable justification for gun laws in the states is for innocent people defending themselves from lunatics with guns

But realistically, in any situation involving said lunatic, you're probably not going to have your gun in your holster ready to retaliate. It's either going to be tucked away somewhere in your house, in your bag or something.

The only situation I can think of where it might be useful is if someone is robbing your shop or place of business, where it's under the counter or something.

Killer Wench · 24-03-2013 04:59PM

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

So his aunt says he was home with her. He must be innocent so.

I don't know about Ireland's Justice System, but here in the US, people are innocent until proven guilty.

According to the last article that I read, neighbors heard the gunshot and then the mother screaming. Did they actually see the two youths attempt to rob the mother and then shoot the baby?

"Yes, I heard the shots. Somebody shot this child," said one sobbing caller, who told the operator there were three shots fired. "She's got him on the ground. Please, we need everything we can get."

Each individual has their own way of processing grief, but I wonder about this:

"At her apartment Saturday, West had filled several bags with her son's clothes and diapers to donate to charity. She said she hopes prosecutors pursue the death penalty in the case."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/23/demarquis-elkins-arrested-baby-antonio_n_2939022.html

Killer Wench · 25-07-2013 05:18PM

All the **** that I got because of this thread. People finding it hard to believe that a White woman would falsely accuse Black men for the death of her child. Like I said, it has happened before!

Best learn from this. Best learn.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/24/new-evidence-in-georgia-infants-death-points-to-parents-not-two-black-teens/

On July 16th further evidence was released to the public that implicates the parents involvement in the child’s death. Police tests immediately following the shooting revealed gun powder on the hands of both Sherry West and the baby’s father, Louis Santiago. Santiago claimed that he was nowhere near the scene of the shooting. This evidence too, was withheld for months, until the defense attorney in the case demanded that it be released in mid July.

Evidence in the Baby Santiago case seems to point more and more toward the fact that the two black youth accused of this shooting are innocent of the crime they’ve been blamed for. Yet their pictures have been plastered all over social media, and they’ve been labelled as “baby killers” – a favorite phrase of the right-wing since the day of the shooting. Can we hope that there will be a fair trial for these youth? Can we hope that our justice system will not continue to convict the innocent, while allowing the guilty to go free? Can we hope that the media will report fairly and accurately on this case? Can we hope that the Georgia court system will be fairer and more just than the one in Florida?

And what of Sherry West? If it turns out that a southern white women did in fact kill her own infant in order to collect some insurance money, will American’s show the same level of vehemence they did when they believed it was two black teens who killed Antonio Santiago? Will they still cry out for execution, or will they see the case differently, if the killer turns out to be middle-aged, white and female, rather than young, black and male?

25-07-2013 05:27PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

All the **** that I got in this thread.

Where

WilyCoyote · 25-07-2013 05:27PM

Let's see Beyoncé's and Jesse Jackson's reaction to this.

Overheal · 25-07-2013 05:36PM

You know Wench when you bumped this thread I looked at the OP and first page and thought "13 and 17... and all these posters want the death penalty for them"

Thats why I never directly commented on this case back in March. The digital mob just heard 'baby shot' and wanted more people dead. Great bunch of lads and ladies in here. And look, now they're exonerated. So what now?

Just reminds me of that Irish fella in Oregon who went nuts and was shot by a local cop. After Hours was roaaaring about police brutality and due process for days. Then the 911 call audio was published, and suddenly nobody uttered another word about it.

Baby shot by muggers because his mother had no money.

Comments