Baby shot by muggers because his mother had no money.

zenno · 23-03-2013 07:02AM

Sometimes you feel the need to give up on humanity, but in the back of your head you know that there are many good people out there on this prison planet. I believe the majority of people are decent but some are pure evil.

When i see the reality of what others do to people as in invading a country with torture, rape, murder of kids and mothers and family members i have this need to shut down mentally as it's too much.

The majority living on this ball of a planet are good people but we let the minority of evil bastards to rule and kill and do whatever they want and we all stand back afraid and enter the shell of comfort and extradite ourselves away from this evil sh1t.

I know what I would do to these bastards if I met them, but i'd be banned for saying it here.

Overheal · 23-03-2013 08:21AM

Amazingfun wrote: »

Not sure I agree there is "no evidence" since two black guys shot and killed a blue eyed baby.

That isn't any legal basis for calling this a racially motivated crime. To establish grounds for a hate crime, you need a much larger body of evidence. That the victim was white is circumstantial, otherwise.

stmol32 · 23-03-2013 11:48AM

I've thought about it and I think I definitely disagree with shooting babies.

TeddyTedson · 23-03-2013 12:15PM

Jesus, that is one of the most shocking things I've read in a while. Just visualising how the crime taking place is enough to make you feel sick.
I still could never agree on the death penalty for anyone though.
As I said before, it's too good for some people. I really don't think it would act as a deterrent for people out there. I know I'd rather take the chair rather than spend the rest of my life in an American prison.
That 17 year old will be somebodies bitch as soon as he gets in there, which is not how things should be either, but it's hard to feel bad for him after reading that.

I wonder is there any point in trying to rehabilitate people like this?
I'd firmly believe that it is possible for some.

Thinking of the crime again though, they've killed a child, most likely psychologically destroyed the mother and who knows what sort of effects it will have on the rest of her family. If for instance she had a 10 year old son who found out his 13month old sibling had been shot by teenagers, well, that's going to be virtually impossible to ever get out of your head.

RIP

Dtp79 · 23-03-2013 12:29PM

These guys won't serve hard time or suffer in prison at all because like with most prison systems, human rights activists have got their way and prison is now a holiday resort

JohnnyChimpo · 23-03-2013 12:40PM

Ah yes the notoriously cushy American penal system.

Nodin · 23-03-2013 12:41PM

Dtp79 wrote: »

These guys won't serve hard time or suffer in prison at all because like with most prison systems, human rights activists have got their way and prison is now a holiday resort

Yes, you are utterly correct. People actually illegally emmigrate to America and commit crimes just to enter their notoriously cushy prison system. Thank you for helping bring awareness of this phenomena to the world.

Dtp79 · 23-03-2013 12:44PM

Nodin wrote: »

Yes, you are utterly correct. People actually illegally emmigrate to America and commit crimes just to enter their notoriously cushy prison system. Thank you for helping bring awareness of this phenomena to the world.

What?
Those scum will not do hard time and it sickens me. They should be executed but instead they'll do short time and be out before there 30 cause of their " rights "

Nodin · 23-03-2013 12:54PM

Dtp79 wrote: »

What?
Those scum will not do hard time and it sickens me. They should be executed but instead they'll do short time and be out before there 30 cause of their " rights "

Maybe on your planet. On this one, America has a notriously harsh system, on minors and adults.

There are at least 2,500 people in the US serving life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for crimes committed when they were under 18 years old. The United States is believed to stand alone in sentencing children to life without parole

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/children-s-rights/juvenile-life-without-parole

Were I you, I'd stop digging.

Dtp79 · 23-03-2013 12:57PM

Nodin wrote: »

Maybe on your planet. On this one, America has a notriously harsh system, on minors and adults.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/children-s-rights/juvenile-life-without-parole

Were I you, I'd stop digging.

Thanks for that info. I stand corrected. It just made my blood boil thinking of them and straight away I just thought of our cosy prison service

Nodin · 23-03-2013 01:01PM

Dtp79 wrote: »

Thanks for that info. I stand corrected. It just made my blood boil thinking of them and straight away I just thought of our cosy prison service

....there's nothing "cosy" about prison here either. Stop listening to uniformed reactionary blather.

Dtp79 · 23-03-2013 01:17PM

Nodin wrote: »

....there's nothing "cosy" about prison here either. Stop listening to uniformed reactionary blather.

I know plenty about the service here. Pool tables, gyms, x box, television, movies. They also get to order their steaks and high end food from the local shops and 2 officers go to our local londis every week to collect a mountain of special order foods. You call this prison? It's a joke

Nodin · 23-03-2013 01:54PM

Dtp79 wrote: »

I know plenty about the service here. Pool tables, gyms, x box, television, movies. They also get to order their steaks and high end food from the local shops and 2 officers go to our local londis every week to collect a mountain of special order foods. You call this prison? It's a joke

Like I said, stop listening to reactionary bollocks.

Dtp79 · 23-03-2013 02:03PM

Nodin wrote: »

Like I said, stop listening to reactionary bollocks.

FFS I've seen the officers with my own 2 eyes getting the food

Galwayguy35 · 23-03-2013 02:04PM

Nodin wrote: »

Maybe on your planet. On this one, America has a notriously harsh system, on minors and adults.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/children-s-rights/juvenile-life-without-parole

Were I you, I'd stop digging.

Just because someone is under 18 they are not a child.

16 and 17 year olds should be tried as adults IMO.

Logical_Bear · 23-03-2013 02:07PM

Dtp79 wrote: »

FFS I've seen the officers with my own 2 eyes getting the food

should of gone to specsavers

Nodin · 23-03-2013 02:08PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Just because someone is under 18 they are not a child..

Really? Because thats how its defined by law.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

16 and 17 year olds should be tried as adults IMO.

Unless the legal age of majority is lowered, its usually just pandering to a lust for vengeance, tbh.

Dtp79 · 23-03-2013 02:14PM

Logical_Bear wrote: »

should of gone to specsavers

Oh so you know what I saw do you.

Nodin · 23-03-2013 02:20PM

Dtp79 wrote: »

Oh so you know what I saw do you.

Well, seeing as there a number of reports that talk about the state of Irish prisons, and you were just in Londis, I'd say its fairly irrelevant what you saw.

Seachmall · 23-03-2013 02:22PM

Nodin wrote: »

Really? Because thats how its defined by law.

Most courts, at least in the U.S., treat the legal age as a guideline and reserve the right to determine whether someone should be tried as an adult or a minor on an individual basis depending on the intellectual capacity of the defendant, their criminal history, their home and background (were they abused or exposed to criminal behavior?), severity of the crime and other criteria.

That's the right way to do it too in my opinion. When talking about a specific individual 18 is a pretty arbitrary number to decide whether they're an adult or not. There are a lot more factors that should be considered than just their age.

Nodin · 23-03-2013 02:26PM

Seachmall wrote: »

Most courts, at least in the U.S., treat the legal age as a guideline and reserve the right to determine whether someone should be tried as an adult or a minor on an individual basis depending on the intellectual capacity of the defendant, their criminal history, their home and background (were they abused or exposed to criminal behavior?) and severity of the crime.

That's the right way to do it too in my opinion. When talking about a specific individual 18 is a pretty arbitrary number to decide whether they're an adult or not.

It is, but deciding when to fix it on some matters and not others is really a case of rigging the system in practice to pander to a lynch mob mentality. Theres been some fairly horrific examples over the years.

Madam_X · 23-03-2013 02:26PM

"Wonderful" as prisons in Ireland apparently are, I won't be doing anything to land me in one.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I've said it before that I think some people are just born bad to the bone and the bleeding hearts come on bladdering about how hard a life people have and all they need is a hug etc.

This is always made up. Who on earth would say they just need a hug etc? I also believe some people are just awful, no matter what upbringing they have, but if they have a truly terrible upbringing with no values and boundaries and no moral compass (which may be the case with these lads, but not definite) it's bound to make them worse. If they had good upbringings, they'd probably be ***** in other ways - just far less serious ones because of fearing consequences. However, that's just an acknowledgement/possible explanation, it's not an excuse - the mixing up of these things goes on a fair bit here on AH.

The issues that lead to crime have to be addressed - the criminal deserves to be punished, and harshly in this case (very long stint inside IMO) but addressing the factors that lead to crime is not being a "bleeding heart", it's of benefit to society. Focusing only on punishment of the criminal is not. It hasn't stopped terrible crimes and it hasn't made vulnerable people safer.

Oranage2 wrote: »

I wonder if a black kid was shot by a black or white guy would they go with the story

Why wouldn't they? I agree Sky News is tripe but this, in and of itself, is a really shocking crime involving a child, no matter what colour anyone involved is. And Sky News loves really shocking crime involving children.

also showing a picture of the baby to show he was white

They just showed a picture of the victim. It's standard.

it looks to me someone has some sort of anti black agenda.

It looks to you... or you're pretending to find it?

Dtp79 · 23-03-2013 02:34PM

Nodin wrote: »

Well, seeing as there a number of reports that talk about the state of Irish prisons, and you were just in Londis, I'd say its fairly irrelevant what you saw.

Ye I know what I saw and see on a regular Basis

Nodin · 23-03-2013 02:37PM

Dtp79 wrote: »

Ye I know what I saw and see on a regular Basis

Yep, in Londis - where the pulse of the prison system is regularily taken.

Nodin · 23-03-2013 02:40PM

Madam_X wrote: »

"Wonderful" as prisons in Ireland apparently are, I won't be doing anything to land me in one.

...........

Wedge heels?

woodoo · 23-03-2013 02:41PM

Georgia has the death penalty so i'd say he will be killed by the state. Maybe he had a tough upbringing though, or his mammy didn't love him enough.

Guy:Incognito · 23-03-2013 02:51PM

del88 wrote: »

i'm just saying as you sit there on your laptop in your warm room looking at another thread about some random tragic story around the world 30,00 children are dying of curable preventable diseases...thats all

And as your doing the same there are poor people in this country living on the streets and starving. You best not complain about anything unless you go give them all your money .......

starlings · 23-03-2013 02:52PM

Madam_X wrote: »

The issues that lead to crime have to be addressed - the criminal deserves to be punished, and harshly in this case (very long stint inside IMO) but addressing the factors that lead to crime is not being a "bleeding heart", it's of benefit to society. Focusing only on punishment of the criminal is not. It hasn't stopped terrible crimes and it hasn't made vulnerable people safer.

This.

My first thought on this story was WTF? It's now calmed down into "what makes someone do something like this?" It's not a bleeding heart liberal response - I'd say it's fairly universal when things like this happen and shake up everything we think we know about humanity.

I don't know if we'll ever find out exactly why people do things like this in every horrible case, but we might uncover information that will be useful in guarding against it in the future. None of this excuses the perpetrators and that is not the point of the exercise.

eviltwin · 23-03-2013 02:52PM

Really wish I hadn't read this story. Just awful

Seachmall · 23-03-2013 02:56PM

Nodin wrote: »

It is, but deciding when to fix it on some matters and not others is really a case of rigging the system in practice to pander to a lynch mob mentality. Theres been some fairly horrific examples over the years.

I suppose the courts (or prosecution) aren't necessarily the ones who should be making these judgements.

Deciding how further someone will develop and whether or not their actions as a minor determine their character as an adult is a bit tricky I suspect, especially as you can't diagnose someone with a disorder (like sociopathy) until they're an adult which creates a catch-22.

Baby shot by muggers because his mother had no money.

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