Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

VirtualWorker · 26-02-2013 08:17PM

Paddywiggum wrote: »

wasnt the full agreement supposed to be published today? any sign of it??

See here: http://www.lrc.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/2013/LRC%20Proposals%20_FINAL.pdf

deise blue · 26-02-2013 08:27PM

iba wrote: »

Most Civil Servants work 6.57 a day - make it simple, 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, 35 hours a week.

Lunch break is on top of that

A lot of people are complaining about the hours civil servants work. Perhaps someone could give a comparrison of what a person in say KPMG works or Allianz insurance etc other office jobs

AIB & Bank of Ireland - 32.5 hour week , 9.30 to 5.30 - 1 hour lunch & two 15 minute breaks daily.

Presumably the same applies to the other Banks as well.

Rightwing · 26-02-2013 08:44PM

VirtualWorker wrote: »

See here: http://www.lrc.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/2013/LRC%20Proposals%20_FINAL.pdf[/QUOTE]

The 1st paragraph just shows how necessary reform is. Looks a very deal to me.

Stheno · 26-02-2013 08:47PM

deise blue wrote: »

AIB & Bank of Ireland - 32.5 hour week , 9.30 to 5.30 - 1 hour lunch & two 15 minute breaks daily.

Presumably the same applies to the other Banks as well.

No, I worked in one of the other retail banks, 9-5:30, an hour for lunch and no breaks morning or afternoon. 37.5 hour week excluding breaks. Also had to travel frequently which involved an 8 hour round trip outside of work hours once a week. No overtime paid for that.

AIB and BOI are almost public sector like with some of their work practices, such as their working week.

Rafa1977 · 26-02-2013 08:56PM

iba wrote: »

Most Civil Servants work 6.57 a day - make it simple, 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, 35 hours a week.

Lunch break is on top of that

A lot of people are complaining about the hours civil servants work. Perhaps someone could give a comparrison of what a person in say KPMG works or Allianz insurance etc other office jobs

Where are they getting those figures as every department and office is different.

Paddywiggum · 26-02-2013 09:01PM

Having read the agreement it strikes me that Nurses are taking proportionally the biggest pay cuts and having to work additional hours on top of that.

Truly disgraceful stuff. I am not a health worker or anything, and haven't had to visit a hospital for yrs (thank god) but is this really where our priorities lie as a society?

Hope they strike.

deise blue · 26-02-2013 09:05PM

Stheno wrote: »

No, I worked in one of the other retail banks, 9-5:30, an hour for lunch and no breaks morning or afternoon. 37.5 hour week excluding breaks. Also had to travel frequently which involved an 8 hour round trip outside of work hours once a week. No overtime paid for that.

AIB and BOI are almost public sector like with some of their work practices, such as their working week.

There really is no reason to work longer hours in any of the retail Banks with the opening hours being what they are ( 10 to 5 daily ) .

I would also point out that I worked all across the private sector - in a flour mills , a furniture factory , a brewery & a fruit growers where the same hours applied - 9/9.30 to 5/5.30 with an hour for lunch & two 15 minute breaks which due to the manual nature of the work were badly needed !

FixdePitchmark · 26-02-2013 09:06PM

iba wrote: »

Most Civil Servants work 6.57 a day - make it simple, 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, 35 hours a week.

Lunch break is on top of that

A lot of people are complaining about the hours civil servants work. Perhaps someone could give a comparrison of what a person in say KPMG works or Allianz insurance etc other office jobs

Some examples you picked there - the insurance and finance world of the last 10 years :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:.

Many hours - much destruction.

FixdePitchmark · 26-02-2013 09:08PM

Stheno wrote: »

No, I worked in one of the other retail banks, 9-5:30, an hour for lunch and no breaks morning or afternoon. 37.5 hour week excluding breaks. Also had to travel frequently which involved an 8 hour round trip outside of work hours once a week. No overtime paid for that.

AIB and BOI are almost public sector like with some of their work practices, such as their working week.

I don't think anybody should consider hours worked in a bank, as valid in any argument at this stage :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

RGS · 26-02-2013 09:09PM

Paddywiggum wrote: »

Having read the agreement it strikes me that Nurses are taking proportionally the biggest pay cuts and having to work additional hours on top of that.

Truly disgraceful stuff. I am not a health worker or anything, and haven't had to visit a hospital for yrs (thank god) but is this really where our priorities lie as a society?

Hope they strike.

Agree nurses have taken the biggest hit proportionally. Punishment for not towing the party line perhaps?

Only thing that looks good for nurses is that the salary scale for new entrants will be the same as entrants in 2011. Graduate scheme abolished, if i read it correctly.

mydogjack · 26-02-2013 09:15PM

Only thing that looks good for nurses is that the salary scale for new entrants will be the same as entrants in 2011. Graduate scheme abolished, if i read it correctly.[/QUOTE]

No, SIPTU, anyway, state they "... have secured agreement that will provide direct engagement with the Minister for Health....with a view to reversing the 80% decision"

tayto lover · 26-02-2013 09:17PM

Paddywiggum wrote: »

Having read the agreement it strikes me that Nurses are taking proportionally the biggest pay cuts and having to work additional hours on top of that.

Truly disgraceful stuff. I am not a health worker or anything, and haven't had to visit a hospital for yrs (thank god) but is this really where our priorities lie as a society?

Hope they strike.

Now that Howlin is finished with the Public Sector and has promised not to touch them again what happens if things don't go as planned and the Government needs more money?
Will they break their other promise of not rising taxes?

Rightwing · 26-02-2013 09:20PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Now that Howlin is finished with the Public Sector and has promised not to touch them again what happens if things don't go as planned and the Government needs more money?
Will they break their other promise of not rising taxes?

Stealth taxes, car tax, property charge will go up etc.

Stheno · 26-02-2013 09:22PM

deise blue wrote: »

There really is no reason to work longer hours in any of the retail Banks with the opening hours being what they are ( 10 to 5 daily ) .

I was in the IT department

the branches were but one area we supported

RGS wrote: »

Agree nurses have taken the biggest hit proportionally. Punishment for not towing the party line perhaps?

Only thing that looks good for nurses is that the salary scale for new entrants will be the same as entrants in 2011. Graduate scheme abolished, if i read it correctly.

Plus there is a note in the agreement published today that those who work Sundays on an ongoing basis will get a 50% rebate of the lost overtime rate

tayto lover wrote: »

Now that Howlin is finished with the Public Sector and has promised not to touch them again what happens if things don't go as planned and the Government needs more money?
Will they break their other promise of not rising taxes?

They've never not raised taxes, they have stuck to their manifesto and not raised paye, or hit the tax bands, however you've had the HHC, Property tax, changes in PRSI etc.

Paddywiggum · 26-02-2013 09:25PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Now that Howlin is finished with the Public Sector and has promised not to touch them again what happens if things don't go as planned and the Government needs more money?
Will they break their other promise of not rising taxes?

This agreement is proposed to run from july 2013 to july 2016.

There is a general election scheduled to be held before April 2016. So first thing new government does in 2016 is negotiate Croke Park III. With a new mandate from electorate it is likely more cuts will be imposed, as it is obvious there will be nominal growth in the country until at least then.

So i hope public sector workers realize this and stand up for themselves now, especially the lower paid ones like nurses.

I do believe that more taxes (indirect or direct) will be imposed in budget 2014.

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 09:28PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Now that Howlin is finished with the Public Sector and has promised not to touch them again what happens if things don't go as planned and the Government needs more money?
Will they break their other promise of not rising taxes?

Para 1.14 of the agreement says if this agreement needs revisiting then the parties will meet to discuss the implications. Looks like they are leaving the door open to hit you again

tayto lover · 26-02-2013 09:29PM

Paddywiggum wrote: »

This agreement is proposed to run from july 2013 to july 2016.

There is a general election scheduled to be held before April 2016. So first thing new government does in 2016 is negotiate Croke Park III. With a new mandate from electorate it is likely more cuts will be imposed, as it is obvious there will be nominal growth in the country until at least then.

So i hope public sector workers realize this and stand up for themselves now, especially the lower paid ones like nurses.

I do believe that more taxes (indirect or direct) will be imposed in budget 2014.

That's my feeling too.
It's also the reason that the Frontline workers should now be out on strike as they will be hit again if they don't fight now.

Midnight Sundance · 26-02-2013 09:30PM

Head The Wall wrote: »

She has a mortgage on that salary?

Yes she has a mortgage on that wage. And to be honest , mortgage or no mortgage , that point is mute. She will be losing a substantial amount of a small wage which can mean a huge difference to someone on low earnings.

tayto lover · 26-02-2013 09:32PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Para 1.14 of the agreement says if this agreement needs revisiting then the parties will meet to discuss the implications. Looks like they are leaving the door open to hit you again

They won't be hitting me.
I don't work in the Public Sector. Had my own wee business, sold it and am semi-retired. Do a bit of paid part-time work and a lot of voluntary work in the community.

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 09:39PM

tayto lover wrote: »

They won't be hitting me.
I don't work in the Public Sector. Had my own wee business, sold it and am semi-retired. Do a bit of paid part-time work and a lot of voluntary work in the community.

Fair play.hope you're enjoying semi-retirement. I have a strong feeling the pain will keep coming for all sectors for the next 5 years and as each year passes the pain is incremental. Deep wounds. There just never seems to be any (sustained) positive news these days

Paddywiggum · 26-02-2013 09:46PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Fair play.hope you're enjoying semi-retirement. I have a strong feeling the pain will keep coming for all sectors for the next 5 years and as each year passes the pain is incremental. Deep wounds. There just never seems to be any (sustained) positive news these days

I really do think as a country and society we are in a form of national mental depression, punch drunk so to speak.

Not only do Europe see us as a soft touch, our own government sees us as the same.

For that reason alone i think people need to exercise their democratic right to peaceful protest.

Its very sad when you compare to the relative optimism of say when the Euro came in etc.

tayto lover · 26-02-2013 09:48PM

Uriel. wrote: »

Fair play.hope you're enjoying semi-retirement. I have a strong feeling the pain will keep coming for all sectors for the next 5 years and as each year passes the pain is incremental. Deep wounds. There just never seems to be any (sustained) positive news these days

Correct and thanks.
I still never get the the arguments as to the Govt's unwillingness to tax the super-rich.

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 10:08PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Correct and thanks.
I still never get the the arguments as to the Govt's unwillingness to tax the super-rich.

I am a little bit on the fence on that one. I'm not super rich,or rich...someday...someday...

And I do think the rich should contribute the most relative terms. That's how society should work. I think the rich do contribute the most. I just don't like the idea of attacking people just because they have money. Most earn that money through hard work, dedication and/or the possession of relatively unique skill. I am uneasy with attacking that. Today in Ireland,though perhaps there is an argument to be made for an additional contribution from them though. USC increases again might help with that.

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 10:10PM

Paddywiggum wrote: »

I really do think as a country and society we are in a form of national mental depression, punch drunk so to speak.

Not only do Europe see us as a soft touch, our own government sees us as the same.

For that reason alone i think people need to exercise their democratic right to peaceful protest.

Its very sad when you compare to the relative optimism of say when the Euro came in etc.

And yet we are nowhere as bad as the likes of Greece. A country I cannot see recovering for many many decades.

Jobs is the key issue i think. We're just not doing enough to fight that issue

Vizzy · 26-02-2013 10:21PM

Uriel. wrote: »

And yet we are nowhere as bad as the likes of Greece. A country I cannot see recovering for many many decades.

Jobs is the key issue i think. We're just not doing enough to fight that issue

Cue the like of ISME who can now pressurize their employees with "if the PS can contribute an extra €1Bn,then you can reduce your pay by a bit or else we won't be able to create new jobs"
and the dance will start all over again !!

I genuinely hope that I will be proved wrong.

26-02-2013 10:35PM

Uriel. wrote: »

And yet we are nowhere as bad as the likes of Greece. A country I cannot see recovering for many many decades.

Jobs is the key issue i think. We're just not doing enough to fight that issue

I think jobs will still be a problem in ten years time, but not just for us but for the whole continent.
Were i work we now produce 6 times more with 36% of the staff we had ten years ago by using more automation and robotics. There is less and less manual labour needed, even the apple factories in China will be highly automated within 5 years. I can see 8% been the new normal unemployment rate.

Uriel. · 26-02-2013 10:37PM

mayomaffia wrote: »

I think jobs will still be a problem in ten years time, but not just for us but for the whole continent.
Were i work we now produce 6 times more with 36% of the staff we had ten years ago by using more automation and robotics. There is less and less manual labour needed, even the apple factories in China will be highly automated within 5 years. I can see 8% been the new normal unemployment rate.

Well that is true for sure in respect of technological development. Difficult to see how to deal with that kind of situation. Population compression? Greater Redistribution of wealth

Rightwing · 26-02-2013 10:38PM

Vizzy wrote: »

Cue the like of ISME who can now pressurize their employees with "if the PS can contribute an extra €1Bn,then you can reduce your pay by a bit or else we won't be able to create new jobs"
and the dance will start all over again !!

I genuinely hope that I will be proved wrong.

That's not the way the real world works at all.

Struggling shops/companies cut wages to try and stay afloat. They ain't too concerned with the contributions of the PS.

Vizzy · 26-02-2013 10:47PM

Rightwing wrote: »

That's not the way the real world works at all.

Struggling shops/companies cut wages to try and stay afloat. They ain't too concerned with the contributions of the PS.

If this is the case,why are ISME literally drooling at the thought of a cut to PS wages ?

By the way,did you come up with the €1 Bn saving from County Councils yet ?

Philipblue12 · 26-02-2013 10:47PM

The govermeng ripped up our terms and conditions acouple of years ago. The time to stand up and resist and cuts was missed three years ago when they implemented the pension levy. How did the union think that was fair or acceptable for people earning under 25k. Also I don't believe there's any funds available if we striked. Unions are redundant in thismodern age

Croke Park II preliminary Talks started today

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