Sinn Féin,s "Republic Day".

topper75 · 25-02-2013 02:09PM

gurramok wrote: »

Lets abolish Bank Holidays, yes?:rolleyes:

Stop rolling the eyes and do a small bit of thinking. Economy is in tatters. And more BH days is part of a solution how?

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 02:13PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Why are you assuming I'm defending any unlawful killings committed during the war of independence?

Why are you equating a war mandated by Ireland's elected representatives to a terrorist campaign mounted with no democratic mandate?

It´s quite new to me that the electorate mandated SF to start the Irish war of independence in 1919. This mandate was more self-declared by the elections result by SF.

barbiegirl · 25-02-2013 02:16PM

I would encourage each of you to look closely into your family history. I would think that the vast majority have great grandparents who fought in the War of Independence. I am proud of my forefathers and of the fact that over 800 years we stood up time and again and said this is our country. They fought for us, for our freedom to govern ourselves. Yes we've royallty f**ked it up, but at least it was us who did that.
Those who fought for our independence should be honoured and a bank holiday in recognition of such a small country defeating a world power is not such a huge way to do it.
As for the current batch of republicans, the northern question etc. that is ongoing and is NOT the same thing as the majority of those in the North wish to remain there.
Celebrating our independence and recognising our national heroes does not and should not infer that we celebrate or recognise the PIRA< RIRA or any other branch.
I refuse to apologise for being Irish, for being proud of our history, of our forefathers, of our heroes.

Chips Lovell · 25-02-2013 02:17PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

It´s quite new to me that the electorate mandated SF to start the Irish war of independence in 1919. This mandate was more self-declared by the elections result by SF.

You should probably have a read of their 1918 general election manifesto in that case.

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 02:23PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

You should probably have a read of their 1918 general election manifesto in that case.

Does it make any difference?

Chips Lovell · 25-02-2013 02:25PM

barbiegirl wrote: »

Celebrating our independence and recognising our national heroes does not and should not infer that we celebrate or recognise the PIRA< RIRA or any other branch.

Problem is that the chap introducing the bill for this bank holiday has said that it will involve celebrating the PIRA.

Yamanoto · 25-02-2013 02:26PM

barbiegirl wrote: »

Celebrating our independence and recognising our national heroes does not and should not infer that we celebrate or recognise the PIRA< RIRA or any other branch.

Tell it to Aengus so, it's his bill.

Asked if that included members of the Provisional IRA who died in the course of the Troubles, Mr Ó Snodaigh said it did.

barbiegirl wrote: »

I refuse to apologise for being Irish, for being proud of our history, of our forefathers, of our heroes.

Nice speech, but I don't think anyone's asked for an apology or denied you the right to freely express your pride whenever the mood takes you.

barbiegirl · 25-02-2013 02:28PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Problem is that the chap introducing the bill for this bank holiday has said that it will involve celebrating the PIRA.

That's a proposal, we don't have to take it 100%, it doesn't have to be Sinn Fein's way or no way. We can take the "let's recognise and celebrate those who fought and sacrificed so that we could grow up Irish" and make it very clear that it is not related to North.
Take the good reject the bad.

Happyman42 · 25-02-2013 02:34PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Why are you assuming I'm defending any unlawful killings committed during the war of independence?

Why are you equating a war mandated by Ireland's elected representatives to a terrorist campaign mounted with no democratic mandate?

I'm not assuming anything, I asked you a question.

Caliden · 25-02-2013 02:34PM

The U.S. has the 4th of July, France has Bastille day, it would be good to have a holiday that's a celebration of our heritage instead of having a holiday that's a glorified piss up all over the world. (i.e. Paddy's day)

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 02:35PM

barbiegirl wrote: »

That's a proposal, we don't have to take it 100%, it doesn't have to be Sinn Fein's way or no way. We can take the "let's recognise and celebrate those who fought and sacrificed so that we could grow up Irish" and make it very clear that it is not related to North.
Take the good reject the bad.

You see the posts on this thread, you see the legacy from decades of Irelands partition. Pity that some posters on here would be quite content if the whole of Ireland would still be part of the UK, just like some from the Unionist camp in NI.

Chips Lovell · 25-02-2013 02:39PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

You see the posts on this thread, you see the legacy from decades of Irelands partition. Pity that some posters on here would be quite content if the whole of Ireland would still be part of the UK, just like some from the Unionist camp in NI.

Hello straw man. Yep, everyone who's got a problem with glorifying the Provisional IRA secretly wants to rejoin the UK.

Iwasfrozen · 25-02-2013 02:43PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

So when does the 'terrorist' tag drop? How many years, how many blind eyes to the reality of violence have to be turned?
Because, the world over this is what happens, from Nelson Mandela to Michael Collins.
Are you saying that the men and women who died as members of the various Republican organisations can never be honoured?

It doesn't, a terrorist is always a terrorist. Be it 1916 or 2013 it makes no difference.

Iwasfrozen · 25-02-2013 02:49PM

barbiegirl wrote: »

That's a proposal, we don't have to take it 100%, it doesn't have to be Sinn Fein's way or no way. We can take the "let's recognise and celebrate those who fought and sacrificed so that we could grow up Irish" and make it very clear that it is not related to North.
Take the good reject the bad.

Logically you can't celebrate the original IRA while condemning the provos. Either way you're celebrating those who use the armalite instead of the ballot box to get what they want. The best thing to do is to forget about the whole idea.

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 02:50PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Hello straw man. Yep, everyone who's got a problem with glorifying the Provisional IRA secretly wants to rejoin the UK.

I´m no straw man, I´m just observing and comparing statements to get the picture. I´d have no problem if you´d wish that the Republic of Ireland should rejoin the UK, cos I know that this will never happen again.

You´ve made it to point of that suggestion as if that "Republic Day" would had the celebration of the PIRA in its centre. That´s not what that man was saying. To include them doesn´t makes them to the centre and the reason for the celebration of Republic Day. The reference goes clearly to 1916.

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 02:52PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It doesn't, a terrorist is always a terrorist. Be it 1916 or 2013 it makes no difference.

How "very British" of you.:D

Iwasfrozen · 25-02-2013 02:54PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

How "very British" of you.:D

We really need a Godwin for republicans. It can be invoked everytime someone is called British for disagreeing with them. :rolleyes:

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 03:19PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

We really need a Godwin for republicans. It can be invoked everytime someone is called British for disagreeing with them. :rolleyes:

I don´t know of what use such invention would be good for. You´re just repeating British propaganda. That´s the point, not that you´re disagreeing, that´s no problem at all, imo.
The British had and have hanging that NI problem around their neck because they´ve invented it themselves, some centuries ago. They would had probably very well wished to get rid of it, but their Unionists won´t let go of Britain. Do you won´t to see that ambivalent attitude by the British or is it just a thing that you´re rather inclinded to ignor it?

Iwasfrozen · 25-02-2013 03:30PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

I don´t know of what use such invention would be good for. You´re just repeating British propaganda. That´s the point, not that you´re disagreeing, that´s no problem at all, imo.

I do, it's a lazy attempt at debate to question the national identity of those who hold a differing opinion to you.

Thomas_I wrote: »

The British had and have hanging that NI problem around their neck because they´ve invented it themselves, some centuries ago. They would had probably very well wished to get rid of it, but their Unionists won´t let go of Britain. Do you won´t to see that ambivalent attitude by the British or is it just a thing that you´re rather inclinded to ignor it?

Maybe they would like to get rid of it but luckily for the Ulster Scots the British were willing to respect their right to self determination. A right Irish nationalists wanted to deny them while seeking the same thing from Britain. Words don't describe how hypocritical that is.

jugger0 · 25-02-2013 03:44PM

Good stuff, to all the people who despise the Provos, are you aware the people of the south left them to the mercy of the unionists who treated them like second class citizens, burned them out of their homes, denied them jobs and housing and political representation, shot them when they protested.. the only route left was violence.

I honestly think the republic owes our northern country men an apology for the cowardice shown on our part.

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 03:45PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I do, it's a lazy attempt at debate to question the national identity of those who hold a differing opinion to you.

I´m not questioning you in this nor in any other way. I accept your disagreement, just simply as it is. There was no attempt whatsoever from my side to bring the debate to national identity, even when you´re interpreting my posts in that way.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Maybe they would like to get rid of it but luckily for the Ulster Scots the British were willing to respect their right to self determination. A right Irish nationalists wanted to deny them while seeking the same thing from Britain. Words don't describe how hypocritical that is.

I´ve come more across some assumptions and allegations that is wasn´t so much the "willing to respect" the right of "self determination" of the Ulster Scots and other Unionists / Loyalists than the fear by the British of having a civil war in the own back yard of the UK. Those people hanging on Britannia´s neck wouldn´t and refused to respect the demands of the Irish for having equal civil rights for their own and integrate themselves within the UK as "British citizens". That´s worse than all this "tit-for-tat" talking regarding national self determination.

In all these talking about "terrorists" in NI from the republican side, those from the Unionist / Loyalists sides were all "non-terrorists" and therefore "self-defender of their home"? I for once refuse to accept that, because either you´ve them both in the same basket, or you have to select them according to their deeds and convictions by the law.

Iwasfrozen · 25-02-2013 03:46PM

jugger0 wrote: »

Good stuff, to all the people who despise the Provos, are you aware the people of the south left them to the mercy of the unionists who treated them like second class citizens, burned them out of their homes, denied them jobs and housing and political representation, shot them when they protested.. the only route left was violence.

I honestly think the republic owes our northern country men an apology for the cowardice shown on our part.

Why do we owe them an apology? We didn't do any of the above mentioned atrocities.

jugger0 · 25-02-2013 03:49PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why do we owe them an apology? We didn't do any of the above mentioned atrocities.

We let it happen, we should of trained them and supplied them with weapons, just as the Brits colluded with the loyalists to kill us.

Iwasfrozen · 25-02-2013 03:51PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

I´ve come more across some assumptions and allegations that is wasn´t so much the "willing to respect" the right of "self determination" of the Ulster Scots and other Unionists / Loyalists than the fear by the British of having a civil war in the own back yard of the UK. Those people hanging on Britannia´s neck wouldn´t and refused to respect the demands of the Irish for having equal civil rights for their own and integrate themselves within the UK as "British citizens". That´s worse than all this "tit-for-tat" talking regarding national self determination.

Either way Republicans lambasting Britain for not denying Ulster Scots the same self determination they were granted is more then a bit hypocritical.

Thomas_I wrote: »

In all these talking about "terrorists" in NI from the republican side, those from the Unionist / Loyalists sides were all "non-terrorists" and therefore "self-defender of their home"? I for once refuse to accept that, because either you´ve them both in the same basket, or you have to select them according to their deeds and convictions by the law.

I agree 100% loyalist terrorists are as much terrorists as nationalist terrorists. Your political ideology doesn't matter a jot when you're blowing up innocent people.

Iwasfrozen · 25-02-2013 03:52PM

jugger0 wrote: »

We let it happen, we should of trained them and supplied them with weapons, just as the Brits colluded with the loyalists to kill us.

Wasn't our fight, and giving the IRA weapons would only have resulted in more civilian deaths.

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 03:53PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why do we owe them an apology? We didn't do any of the above mentioned atrocities.

You don´t have the slightest interest to even spare a few minutes to ask why these people still feel that they were "abandoned" by the Irish state when in need? It´s like someone calling for help and those always talking about the "whole Nation" let them down when it was time to show them their true colours.

I know to honour the PIRA members tastes bitter for a Republic Day, but you miss to acknowledge that every country has their "good and bad fellas" who gave their lifes for their country, but they´re not excluded in commemorations. IMO - and I don´t give too much what SF says - its Ireland with her history and culture that stands in the centre of this Republic Day.

kowloon · 25-02-2013 03:55PM

I'd like to see 'celebrate whatever you like' day officially recognised.

LordSutch · 25-02-2013 03:57PM

jugger0 wrote: »

We let it happen, we should of trained them and supplied them with weapons, just as the Brits colluded with the loyalists to kill us.

Us?

Thomas_I · 25-02-2013 03:57PM

Iwasfrozenof the British wrote: »

Either way Republicans lambasting Britain for not denying Ulster Scots the same self determination they were granted is more then a bit hypocritical.

It is not, because the Ulster Scots were part of the then ruling class in NI.

Iwasfrozenof the British wrote: »

I agree 100% loyalist terrorists are as much terrorists as nationalist terrorists. Your political ideology doesn't matter a jot when you're blowing up innocent people.

Thanks for that, so we have at last reached some common sense on this.

25-02-2013 04:00PM

i would celebrate Jimmy Savlle if it meant a day off .

Sinn Féin,s "Republic Day".

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