Fluoride- Declan Waugh in Hotpress

Ziphius wrote: »

Myriad reasons. The fact is that many countries do fluoridate there water. Other countries, particularly in Europe, add fluoride to table salt.

Myriad reasons? Well that's me corrected. Thanks for that. How about countries who have stopped fluoridation and now have less decay than when they were fluoridating? The salt/fluoride argument is a bluddy nonsense. I'd expect a scientific person like yourself to realise that.

Ziphius wrote: »

Just because something is uncommon does not make it dangerous. Would you apply that logic to which side of the road we drive on?

Let me get this straight. Your saying that advisers and scientists like yourself in other countries are wrong. Loads of them in fact.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:6xPgNiSRRaIJ:www.enviro.ie/correspondence/21.11.2012/Correspondence%2520from%2520Minister%2520for%2520Health%2520and%2520Facts%2520on%2520Countries%2520that%2520ceased%2520water%2520fluoridation%2520Nov%25202012.pdf+&hl=en&gl=ie&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgTaDBte6rNIJYkyBD8z6K0owPC8yko4A38xodZnkBVWBI3vNG3sX6AcR9C3f2Cwq9wbNTvlRnRO1KiManxPOin2dVl1Zv2gFSg4el6WQTcdA-KbhKHriw4jjj6nHVCMGBYzqlE&sig=AHIEtbQv_Db7MPjWXiAW7fExa9-ichleTQ

9959 wrote: »

I'm not sure if they hate them, they just never met any.

They have a knack for making everything dearer. Adding taxes to bluddy everything was their mantra. Ergo, they hate poor people.

Whenever this thread pops up I post this video, because it's very good at pointing out all the holes in the usual anti-fluoride arguments. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MAXwv7j_jbY

I know it won't sway any of the militant anti-fluoride people out there, because they often start spouting nonsense about lizard people when you hit them with any stats they dont' like, but it should hopefully help anybody who is on the edge to make an informed decision.

More reading if anybody is interested, a report published by the world health organisation. http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_846.pdf

meridiangroup wrote: »

Yeah, that 'ol (water ) chestnut. Ok, so this has long been a topic held dear by Jim Corr devotees and and other maligned crackpots (and now Paddy Casey too, it seems), but the anti-fluoride argument seems to have been given considerable credence by the research undertaken by Declan Waugh, interviewed in this months Hotpress.

He's compiled a 300 + page report reviewing 1200 + studies and he's claiming that we've the highest incidences of cancer, neurological illness, cardiovascular illness and diabetes in all of Europe, and it's related to fluoridation of our water supply.

The comparisons between the Republic and the North where incidences of the above illnesses are concerned make for especially troubling reading. Apparently his research has also resulted in four Canadian cities making the decision to cease fluoridating their water supply.

Some more info on article here, as is a link to download the report itself.

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=13866

Looks like they may have gotten something right over in conspiracy theories...

Correlation does not imply causation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Just because cancer rates are higher in Ireland than elsewhere does not mean you can pick a random difference when there are many and attribute it to the cancer rates. I could just as easily come along and say that there are a higher number of cows in Ireland per square meter of land than a lot of other countries, therefore cows cause cancer. You see why the argument falls down?

I'm not saying water fluoridation doesn't cause cancer, but until I am presented with some legitimate evidence to suggest that it is I have no reason to believe it's true.

Another big issue here has been mentioned by others, the fact that a lot of other European countries distribute fluoride by other means such as salt and milk and some have naturally occurring fluoride so don't need to add any. Here is a list of what countries use fluoride and how they use it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country

squod wrote: »

If your going along the lines of arguing that people are wrong because they hold a different opinion that you do, could you tell me then precisely why so few countries do not flouridate their drinking water. Shurely if it's only conspiracy nuts who think flouridation is bad then the majority of countries would adopt it?

Sadly it's not only conspiracy nuts that think water fluoridation is bad. The conspiracy nuts tend to be very vocal and seem to have no scruples about making s**t up to further their agenda so scare people into believing what they say. They use the same tactics with vacines, which is a much bigger atrocity than fluoride imo, it's disgusting.

JonEBGud wrote: »

There is no need for Fluoride in our water.
Anyone who brushes their teeth with toothpaste
every day doesn't need it.
Plus:- Old folks with no teeth (only dentures)
don't need it.

This is simply untrue and can be debunked with by very quick google search. Stop spreading information you can't back up. Some more reading material if you are interested on why ingesting flouride is important for the prevention of dental caries. Paper 1 and paper 2.

Seaneh wrote: »

First of all, fluride isn't added to table salt for health reasons, it's added to make it "free flowing" and cheaper, so where's that "argument" shot to crap, as for the rest of your post, that's even more ridiculous.

Even if your reason for it being added to salt is true (which it isn't), why does it matter? The fact still remains that it is added to salt in a lot of countries, why does the intention behind it being added make a blind bit of difference? Do things only make people sick if the person administering them intends for it to make them sick?

My major issue with fluoridation of public water supplies is more that it's mass-medication. It's just the principle of not giving people a right to choose whether or not to take this supplement.

The other issues are that :

1) It's controlled by county councils / city councils who have difficulty mastering the art of pot-hole filing. Would you really trust them to regulate medication of drinking water?

2) We are out of line with all other EU countries on this. Does Ireland really have the medical expertise to even make a decision like this? Personally, I'd rather air on the side of caution and stick with what is the norm right across Europe i.e. not to fluoridate supplies.
I don't see many French, German, Swedish, Dutch or anyone else in Europe suffering from horrendous teeth problems as a result.

3) Would the money spent on this not be better off put into dental health campaigns?

I am also getting a little sick and tired of people putting anyone who questions this practice down as a 'crackpot'.

There are perfectly valid, non-crackpot reasons for questioning this particular practice and simply shutting down debate on it is a bit ridiculous.

Aquarius34 wrote: »

What a load of BS... The government don't care about your teeth. The government is driven by power,greed, corruption and you mean to sit here and actually think these corrupt leaders are trying to protect us from tooth decay when they have turned this country upside down?

Tooth decay is the least of their f***king worries.

Give it a rest. It's 2013 not 1945.

You're 100% correct. This government care for our teeth, what a fcuking laugh.