Fluoride- Declan Waugh in Hotpress

pastorbarrett · 25-02-2013 12:47AM #1

Yeah, that 'ol (water

) chestnut. Ok, so this has long been a topic held dear by Jim Corr devotees and and other maligned crackpots (and now Paddy Casey too, it seems), but the anti-fluoride argument seems to have been given considerable credence by the research undertaken by Declan Waugh, interviewed in this months Hotpress.

He's compiled a 300 + page report reviewing 1200 + studies and he's claiming that we've the highest incidences of cancer, neurological illness, cardiovascular illness and diabetes in all of Europe, and it's related to fluoridation of our water supply.

The comparisons between the Republic and the North where incidences of the above illnesses are concerned make for especially troubling reading. Apparently his research has also resulted in four Canadian cities making the decision to cease fluoridating their water supply.

Some more info on article here, as is a link to download the report itself.

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=13866

Looks like they may have gotten something right over in conspiracy theories...

Annasopra · 25-02-2013 12:50AM

Who?

Heroditas · 25-02-2013 12:52AM

mango salsa wrote: »

Who?

He used to be a member of the Green Party and is on the board of SEAI.
Ended up talking to him just before Christmas about the fluoride issue before he started going on about mobile phone signals scrambling our brains.

Jimoslimos · 25-02-2013 01:34AM

meridiangroup wrote: »

He's compiled a 300 + page report reviewing 1200 + studies and he's claiming that we've the highest incidences of cancer, neurological illness, cardiovascular illness and diabetes in all of Europe, and it's related to fluoridation of our water supply.

The comparisons between the Republic and the North where incidences of the above illnesses are concerned make for especially troubling reading. Apparently his research has also resulted in four Canadian cities making the decision to cease fluoridating their water supply.

Nothing to do with the vastly superior health system north of the border? Different methods of reporting? Drawing conclusions on disease incidence rates from different countries is fraught with danger.

Ziphius · 25-02-2013 01:54AM

The lack of a clear reference section in this 300 page bloat is a concern.

Waugh is also a fan of Aisling Fitzgibbon (aka The girl against fluoride) who uses scientific misinformation in her crusade against fluoride.

I'll wait till Waugh publishes his findings in a real peer reviewed journal before accepting conspiracy theories.

Ziphius · 25-02-2013 01:56AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Nothing to do with the vastly superior health system north of the border? Different methods of reporting? Drawing conclusions on disease incidence rates from different countries is fraught with danger.

Indeed. The anti fluoride campaigners always seem to forget to include cancers rates that are higher in Republic than the North for some reason too. And the cancers that are more prevalent in urban areas.

squod · 25-02-2013 02:26AM

Ziphius wrote: »

Waugh is also a fan of Aisling Fitzgibbon (aka The girl against fluoride) who uses scientific misinformation in her crusade against fluoride.

I'll wait till Waugh publishes his findings in a real peer reviewed journal before accepting conspiracy theories.

You can have my share of the flouride if that would make you any happier.

If your going along the lines of arguing that people are wrong because they hold a different opinion that you do, could you tell me then precisely why so few countries do not flouridate their drinking water. Shurely if it's only conspiracy nuts who think flouridation is bad then the majority of countries would adopt it?

At what point would you accept that your argument is wrong?

JonEBGud · 25-02-2013 02:46AM

There is no need for Fluoride in our water.
Anyone who brushes their teeth with toothpaste
every day doesn't need it.
Plus:- Old folks with no teeth (only dentures)
don't need it.

Ziphius · 25-02-2013 02:51AM

squod wrote: »

You can have my share of the flouride if that would make you any happier.

If your going along the lines of arguing that people are wrong because they hold a different opinion that you do, could you tell me then precisely why so few countries do not flouridate their drinking water. Shurely if it's only conspiracy nuts who think flouridation is bad then the majority of countries would adopt it?

Myriad reasons. The fact is that many countries do fluoridate there water. Other countries, particularly in Europe, add fluoride to table salt.

Just because something is uncommon does not make it dangerous. Would you apply that logic to which side of the road we drive on?

squod wrote: »

At what point would you accept that your argument is wrong?

If you're asking what would change my opinion on water fluoridation then evidence. Be this scientific or economic or whatever. What would change yours?

Fitzgibbon does not use good science. In her literature (at least what I saw) used graphics from the all Ireland cancer atlas (link) that showed different rates of various cancers in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Firstly she did not include the cancers (admittedly fewer) that are infact more common in the North but also mixed up correlation with causation.

I used conspiracy theories to echo the OP. Though if you look at the numerous threads on this topic I think you'll see its often a fair judgement.

Ziphius · 25-02-2013 02:53AM

JonEBGud wrote: »

There is no need for Fluoride in our water.
Anyone who brushes their teeth with toothpaste
every day doesn't need it.
Plus:- Old folks with no teeth (only dentures)
don't need it.

Fair enough. But what if low cost fluoridation saves low income families thousands in dental visits or lost teeth?

Edit Water fluoridation came in ninth place in the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention list of ten greatest public health achievements of the 20th century. http://www.cdc.gov/about/history/tengpha.htm

"Water fluoridation is especially beneficial for communities of low socioeconomic status. These communities have a disproportionate burden of dental caries and have less access than higher income communities to dental-care services and other sources of fluoride. Water fluoridation may help reduce such dental health disparities."

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 03:37AM

Ziphius wrote: »

Myriad reasons. The fact is that many countries do fluoridate there water. Other countries, particularly in Europe, add fluoride to table salt.

Just because something is uncommon does not make it dangerous. Would you apply that logic to which side of the road we drive on?

No that is not true, only a few countries add fluoride to salt, and even at that, it means you don't have to take it if you don't buy salt. If it's in our water we have no choice. There is a major difference here, and adding fluoride to salt won't benefit your teeth, swallowing it doesn't have any benefit either and wait for it fluoride has no benefit whatsoever. There is just no logic in any of it.

Water fluoridation is banned now in most of Europe. We are the only country in Europe that puts it into most of our water supply. Spain and England only have a few pocket places left.

Fitzgibbon does not use good science. In her literature (at least what I saw) used graphics from the all Ireland cancer atlas

Lol at good science

I used conspiracy theories to echo the OP. Though if you look at the numerous threads on this topic I think you'll see its often a fair judgement.

A lot of people are waking up to the realisation that sodium fluoride is poison. It's escalating more and more all the time. Just one google search will show you millions of results on the topic and it will show you just how many people from all walks of life who are campaigning against it.

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 03:41AM

Ziphius wrote: »

Fair enough. But what if low cost fluoridation saves low income families thousands in dental visits or lost teeth?

Edit Water fluoridation came in ninth place in the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention list of ten greatest public health achievements of the 20th century. http://www.cdc.gov/about/history/tengpha.htm

"Water fluoridation is especially beneficial for communities of low socioeconomic status. These communities have a disproportionate burden of dental caries and have less access than higher income communities to dental-care services and other sources of fluoride. Water fluoridation may help reduce such dental health disparities."

What a load of BS... The government don't care about your teeth. The government is driven by power,greed, corruption and you mean to sit here and actually think these corrupt leaders are trying to protect us from tooth decay when they have turned this country upside down?

Tooth decay is the least of their f***king worries.

Give it a rest. It's 2013 not 1945.

Ziphius · 25-02-2013 03:46AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

What a load of BS... The government don't care about your teeth. The government is driven by power,greed, corruption and you mean to sit here and actually think these corrupt leaders are trying to protect us from tooth decay when they have turned this country upside down?

Tooth decay is the least of their f***king worries.

Give it a rest. It's 2013 not 1945.

The CDC is a US organisation. Perhaps you'd have more credibility if you knew what you were talking about.

Sarky · 25-02-2013 03:47AM

In before lizard people.

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 03:48AM

Ziphius wrote: »

The CDC is a US organisation. Perhaps you'd have more credibility if you knew what you were talking about.

I don't care who they are. You have no credibility when you talk about sodium fluoride as something that is beneficial to us by dumping it in our drinking water.

Ziphius · 25-02-2013 03:48AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

I don't care who they are. You have no credibility when you talk about sodium fluoride as something that is beneficial to us by dumping it in our drinking water.

Meow!

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 03:50AM

Ziphius wrote: »

Meow!

Dinosaurus are backs.

Jimoslimos · 25-02-2013 03:50AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

No that is not true, only a few countries add fluoride to salt, and even at that, it means you don't have to take it if you don't buy salt. If it's in our water we have no choice. There is a major difference here, and adding fluoride to salt won't benefit your teeth, swallowing it doesn't have any benefit either and wait for it fluoride has no benefit whatsoever. There is just no logic in any of it.

Actually it is probably easier to avoid fluoridated water here than fluoridated salt abroad - given that salt forms an essential part of our diet and used in most processed foods as well as cooking.

25-02-2013 03:52AM

With all due respect aquarius, i've just finished reading the latest 'vaccines' thread over in CT, and although my views on fluoridation seem to be fundamentally in line with your own, at this moment I cannot accept the words you type as anything other than entertainment.

Thread relevent: Flouridation is bad, mmm' kay. Now to have a glance through Waugh's report.

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 03:52AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Actually it is probably easier to avoid fluoridated water here than fluoridated salt abroad - given that salt forms an essential part of our diet and used in most processed foods as well as cooking.

Ah now're your thinking

Well if I had a choice, I'd prefer to be added to salt, because I don't eat processed food. When it's in water, it's in nearly freaking everything because we need water for drinking, cooking, cleaning, and for washing ourselves.

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 03:54AM

stankratz wrote: »

With all due respect aquarius, i've just finished reading the latest 'vaccines' thread over in CT, and although my views on fluoridation seem to be in line with your own, at this moment I cannot accept the words you type as anything other than entertainment.

Well follow popularity contest if you will, that's your decision, it doesn't make a difference to me as to whatever you believe.

Seaneh · 25-02-2013 03:55AM

Ziphius wrote: »

Myriad reasons. The fact is that many countries do fluoridate there water. Other countries, particularly in Europe, add fluoride to table salt.

First of all, fluride isn't added to table salt for health reasons, it's added to make it "free flowing" and cheaper, so where's that "argument" shot to crap, as for the rest of your post, that's even more ridiculous.

JonEBGud · 25-02-2013 03:55AM

Ziphius wrote: »

Fair enough. But what if low cost fluoridation saves low income families thousands in dental visits or lost teeth?

Edit Water fluoridation came in ninth place in the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention list of ten greatest public health achievements of the 20th century. http://www.cdc.gov/about/history/tengpha.htm

"Water fluoridation is especially beneficial for communities of low socioeconomic status. These communities have a disproportionate burden of dental caries and have less access than higher income communities to dental-care services and other sources of fluoride. Water fluoridation may help reduce such dental health disparities."

Give them a tooth brush and a tube of toothpaste.
Why does everyone else have to have this poison?

Jimoslimos · 25-02-2013 03:56AM

Aquarius34 wrote: »

Ah now're your thinking

Well if I had a choice, I'd prefer to be added to salt, because I don't eat processed food. When it's in water, it's in nearly freaking everything because we need water for drinking, cooking, cleaning, and for washing ourselves.

So where do you get your salt intake from? A salt-lick in the back garden?

J_E · 25-02-2013 03:58AM

Hasn't done me any harm...

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 04:00AM

The government want to protect us all from the evil forces of tooth decay.

The country is a mess, but the focus is to protect our teeth. You know aren't we the most fluoridated country in the world alongside USA. Doesn't that tell you something about the state of our country. Fluoride is well known for causing brain damage and America has always been slated as the most brainwashed nation on Earth, and it seems very obvious this country is following in on the same pattern.

But hey, let's not get the real facts get in the way of corruption here. We must protect Irish people from tooth decay. Sodium fluoride is the only defense against tooth decay.

Let's all eat bags of sugar and then go swallow fluoride. We will all be fine.

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 04:02AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

So where do you get your salt intake from? A salt-lick in the back garden?

toothpaste. I add it my breakfast, I add it to my curry and It's all because the government are right and they are here to protect me from tooth decay.

Jimoslimos · 25-02-2013 04:03AM

Seaneh wrote: »

First of all, fluride isn't added to table salt for health reasons, it's added to make it "free flowing" and cheaper, so where's that "arguement" shot to crap, as for the rest of your post, that's even more ridiculous.

Bullsh1t. Sodium Fluoride isn't an anti-caking agent, and isn't used for that purpose. So that's that argument "shot to crap".

JonEBGud · 25-02-2013 04:04AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

So where do you get your salt intake from? A salt-lick in the back garden?

Any person who has a balanced diet
doesn't need suplements.

Aquarius34 · 25-02-2013 04:06AM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Bullsh1t. Sodium Fluoride

Yes it is.

It's all bull**** and you know what it's bad for ya!

Ziphius · 25-02-2013 04:06AM

Seaneh wrote: »

First of all, fluride isn't added to table salt for health reasons, it's added to make it "free flowing" and cheaper, so where's that "arguement" shot to crap, as for the rest of your post, that's even more ridiculous.

Why does my Marken JodSalz (mit fluorid) include fluoride( and folic acid) in the nutritional information including an RDA?

Perhaps this paper will be of interest to you:

"Water ﬂuoridation, salt ﬂuoridation, milk ﬂuoridation and use of affordable ﬂuoridated toothpastes play the major roles in public health"

http://www.who.int/oral_health/publications/orh_IDJ_salt_fluoration.pdf

So that's your entire "arguement [sic] shot to crap".

Fluoride- Declan Waugh in Hotpress

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