Households must pay for water meters.

periodictable · 06-09-2012 7:04pm

No. Meters were installed 4 years back but we informed them of the agreement, refused to pay and gave the option of the scheme removing its pipes from the land, reinstating it, and reimbursing for losses sustained from leaking pipes and unused land.

TheChizler · 06-09-2012 8:21pm

periodictable wrote: »

No. Meters were installed 4 years back but we informed them of the agreement, refused to pay and gave the option of the scheme removing its pipes from the land, reinstating it, and reimbursing for losses sustained from leaking pipes and unused land.

Who was doing the metering?

periodictable · 07-09-2012 12:27am

Group scheme

hju6 · 10-01-2013 10:34pm

I would be prepared to pay for water if it was just that i.e H2o, not the poisonous fluoridated undrinkable piss that is supplied.

dirtyden · 10-01-2013 10:38pm

hju6 wrote: »

I would be prepared to pay for water if it was just that i.e H2o, not the poisonous fluoridated undrinkable piss that is supplied.

The tap water in Ireland in general is fine.

hju6 · 10-01-2013 10:55pm

dirtyden wrote: »

The tap water in Ireland in general is fine.

Fine for what ?

Hijpo · 10-01-2013 11:18pm

dirtyden wrote: »

The tap water in Ireland in general is fine.

In general? In terms of what? Flow rate? I need a filter jug to run mine through, no hope of anyone supplying me with filters only me and my own pocket as usual.

Teyla Emmagan · 10-01-2013 11:24pm

I don't give a rat's arse about paying for it as long as I get a) clean drinkable water b) good pressure. The water pressure in our area is brutal, I could actually piss faster than the water coming in from the mains at times. I had to get a pump fitted last month to fill the tank each night after the house was dry for 10 whole days. The whole road I live on is supplied by one lead pipe that was laid 100 years ago (and is gushing with leaks), we have no stopcocks, and my water is brown from God knows what.

The sooner this new water body is in place and starts doing something about the situation (because DCC certainly see any upgrades as a waste of money at this stage), the happier I will be!!!

Am Chile · 11-01-2013 12:15am

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I don't give a rat's arse about paying for it as long as I get a) clean drinkable water b) good pressure. The water pressure in our area is brutal, I could actually piss faster than the water coming in from the mains at times. I had to get a pump fitted last month to fill the tank each night after the house was dry for 10 whole days. The whole road I live on is supplied by one lead pipe that was laid 100 years ago (and is gushing with leaks), we have no stopcocks, and my water is brown from God knows what.

The sooner this new water body is in place and starts doing something about the situation (because DCC certainly see any upgrades as a waste of money at this stage), the happier I will be!!!

The planned water body is only a step in the process of privatising Irelands water supplies/water services-(Step 1) create a new water company, (Step 2) transfer all water services to the new water company- (Step 3) make the new company as profitable as possible- (Step 4) once Irish water is profitable sell off Irish Water as part of the sale of state assets and privatise all water supplies/water services-I know some people might say ah sure none of the above will ever happen-I say to people check out the IMFs record on insisting on water privatization in countries they go into.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=906163

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2001/01september/sep01corp2.html

http://www.newint.org/blog/majority/2011/06/20/africa-water-privatization/

The
European Commission admitted to promoting water privatisation in countries like
Greece and Portugal that use the bailout plan, as a condition to continue
receiving the aidfunds.
Civil society groups have written to commissioner Olli Rehn to demand the
cessation of pressure regarding water privatisation.

http://www.neurope.eu/article/commission-favor-water-privatization-countries-receiving-bailout

Teyla Emmagan · 11-01-2013 2:00pm

Am Chile wrote: »

The planned water body is only a step in the process of privatising Irelands water supplies/water services-(Step 1) create a new water company, (Step 2) transfer all water services to the new water company- (Step 3) make the new company as profitable as possible- (Step 4) once Irish water is profitable sell off Irish Water as part of the sale of state assets and privatise all water supplies/water services-I know some people might say ah sure none of the above will ever happen-I say to people check out the IMFs record on insisting on water privatization in countries they go into.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=906163

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2001/01september/sep01corp2.html

http://www.newint.org/blog/majority/2011/06/20/africa-water-privatization/

http://www.neurope.eu/article/commission-favor-water-privatization-countries-receiving-bailout[/QUOTE]

So? The current water supply system is an absolute joke in some areas. If it requires privitisation in order to get the service up to scratch I have no problem with that. In order to put a water meter on my house someone will have to put in a new (properly functioning) main, and a stop cock to my house. And my current local authority won't do that, so I will be happy to see someone come along who will.

monkeypants · 11-01-2013 2:20pm

From the Indo, but I heard it said on the radio too:

The EU/IMF agreement says charging must begin from 2014 but the Government may decide to delay the inevitable until after the local elections that year. This is because there are concerns that homeowners – hit with a full year of the property tax that was introduced last month, plus water charges – will then vote against the coalition government parties of Fine Gael and Labour in the June 2014 elections.

So it's very important, but not as important as them keeping their jobs. Water can be covered by general taxation until the local elections, but the tax base will have to be broadened after.
Here's to remembering and voting. What promises can they make now that we'll believe?

dvpower · 11-01-2013 2:26pm

monkeypants wrote: »

So it's very important, but not as important as them keeping their jobs. Water can be covered by general taxation until the local elections, but the tax base will have to be broadened after.
Here's to remembering and voting. What promises can they make now that we'll believe?

But isn't that quote just speculation from a journalist?

Rented Mule · 11-01-2013 2:32pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Why weren't developers forced during planning and construction process to provide meters. .

You'd still be paying for these meters if the developer has installed them.....along with the rest of the development.

Hijpo · 11-01-2013 2:42pm

dvpower wrote: »

But isn't that quote just speculation from a journalist?

Isnt the running of the country in the hands of a teacher turned lap dog?

Am Chile · 11-01-2013 5:24pm

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Am Chile wrote: »

The planned water body is only a step in the process of privatising Irelands water supplies/water services-(Step 1) create a new water company, (Step 2) transfer all water services to the new water company- (Step 3) make the new company as profitable as possible- (Step 4) once Irish water is profitable sell off Irish Water as part of the sale of state assets and privatise all water supplies/water services-I know some people might say ah sure none of the above will ever happen-I say to people check out the IMFs record on insisting on water privatization in countries they go into.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=906163

http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm2001/01september/sep01corp2.html

http://www.newint.org/blog/majority/2011/06/20/africa-water-privatization/

http://www.neurope.eu/article/commission-favor-water-privatization-countries-receiving-bailout[/QUOTE]

So? The current water supply system is an absolute joke in some areas. If it requires privitisation in order to get the service up to scratch I have no problem with that. In order to put a water meter on my house someone will have to put in a new (properly functioning) main, and a stop cock to my house. And my current local authority won't do that, so I will be happy to see someone come along who will.

I agree the water supply system needs upgrading, however ask yourself this, the money they plan to spend on domestic water meters to moniter how much water is used in a household, why won,t they spend that same amount of money to upgrade the water supply system and fix the leaks in the pipes to conserve and save water ? they use the argument water meters will conserve water, yet if they were to the spend the same amount of money to fix the leaks in the pipes they will save and conserve a lot more water, another argument they use they need domestic water meters to detect leaks, however if they were to install district water meters instead in per neighbourhood instead of domestic water meter per house, they would still be able to detect leaks, detect the source of the leaks and save more money then installing hundreds of thousands of domestic water meters.

A key weapon against leaks
District metering is a key weapon in the war against leaks. The concept of District Metered Areas (DMAs) was first introduced to the UK at the start of the 1980s by the then UK Water Authorities Association. A district is a defined area of the distribution system that can be isolated by valves and for which the quantities of water entering and leaving can be metered. The subsequent analysis of flow and pressure, especially at night when a high proportion of users are inactive, enables leakage specialists to calculate the level of leaks in the district. This can be used to determine not only whether work should be undertaken to reduce leakage, but also to compare levels of leakage in different districts and thereby target maintenance in those areas where it will have the greatest impact.

http://www.abb.co.uk/cawp/seitp202/8b1bac80a0dcc280c1257707004aba9d.aspx

The only real purposes domestic water meters serve is commodifying water turning water into a commodity like gas and electricity, and preparing the groundwork for water privatization.

When one looks to the uk at how private water companies have benifitted from water privatization, the question poses who really benifits from water privatization the consumers or senior executives of private water companies ?

Three of Britain's biggest water companies paid little or no tax on their profits last year while generously rewarding their executives and investors, the Observer can reveal. Thames Water and Anglian Water paid no corporation tax on the profits made from their utility businesses while Yorkshire Water kept its payments to the Revenue in the low millions.

All the companies made hundreds of millions of pounds in operating profits and some have rewarded their senior executives with performance-related bonuses and investors with huge dividends. Martin Baggs, the chief executive of Thames Water, which enjoyed a £76m tax rebate in 2012, was given a bonus of £420,000 on top of his £425,000 salary and is in line for a further windfall of £1m based on company performance through to 2015.

Thames Water – which has 13 million domestic customers – enjoyed a £76m tax rebate last year, despite making operating profits of £650m and warning of big future price rises.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/nov/10/water-companies-tax

Thames Water and Anglian Water paid no corporation tax in their latest financial year despite reporting a combined operating profit of more than £1.1bn, while Yorkshire Water paid £2.9m in corporation tax this year while generating an operating profit of £303m.

Despite paying no corporation tax, Thames Water paid out £280m to shareholders for the financial year 2011/2012, while Anglian Water paid a dividend of £151m for the 12 months to the end of March.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/utilities/9670814/High-profit-water-companies-reduce-tax-bills-to-a-trickle.html

greenpilot · 11-01-2013 5:31pm

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that hundreds of thousands of us outside the pale already pay for our water and meters through group water schemes, and have done for years. Suck it up folks. I'm not paying the household charge because I don't see where the money goes, but I will and do, pay for water. It's not that much anyway.

StinkyMunkey · 11-01-2013 5:52pm

greenpilot wrote: »

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that hundreds of thousands of us outside the pale already pay for our water and meters through group water schemes, and have done for years. Suck it up folks. I'm not paying the household charge because I don't see where the money goes, but I will and do, pay for water. It's not that much anyway.

Sure what's another couple of thousand off our all ready tight budget.

- mortgage
- property tax
- child minding
- bins
- electricity/heating/Internet/tv/food/living expenses
- tax/insurance on car

But to mention a few, pale or outside of it, we are all getting screwed. Just because other countries pay doesn't mean we should. By that reasoning they should pay VRT and VAT when buying a car like us, that's just one example.

I can see the Ireland going back to the upper and lower class days of old. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

I don't pay a fine or the house hold property tax, I get dragged in front of the courts.

I borrow millions, go bankrupt, put it all if the wife's name and I'm sorted. Then open a company under a new name. Over simplified I know, but you get the picture.

dvpower · 11-01-2013 7:22pm

Hijpo wrote: »

Isnt the running of the country in the hands of a teacher turned lap dog?

Wut?

hju6 · 11-01-2013 8:12pm

dvpower wrote: »

Wut?

No, mutt

smileyj1987 · 11-01-2013 8:26pm

What happens if you can't afford a water meter ?

Chinasea · 11-01-2013 8:28pm

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Sure what's another couple of thousand off our all ready tight budget.

- mortgage
- property tax
- child minding
- bins
- electricity/heating/Internet/tv/food/living expenses
- tax/insurance on car

But to mention a few, pale or outside of it, we are all getting screwed. Just because other countries pay doesn't mean we should. By that reasoning they should pay VRT and VAT when buying a car like us, that's just one example.

I can see the Ireland going back to the upper and lower class days of old. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

I don't pay a fine or the house hold property tax, I get dragged in front of the courts.

I borrow millions, go bankrupt, put it all if the wife's name and I'm sorted. Then open a company under a new name. Over simplified I know, but you get the picture.

So who do you think should pay your:

- mortgage
- property tax
- child minding :eek:
- bins
- electricity/heating/Internet/tv/food/living expenses
- tax/insurance on car

?

PS: When we get stuff for free in this country we blo*dy well waste it.

Devia · 11-01-2013 8:30pm

smileyj1987 wrote: »

What happens if you can't afford a water meter ?

Your water will be cut off.

StinkyMunkey · 11-01-2013 8:32pm

Chinasea wrote: »

So who do you think should pay your:

- mortgage
- property tax
- child minding :eek:
- bins
- electricity/heating/Internet/tv/food/living expenses
- tax/insurance on car

?

PS: When we get stuff for free in this country we blo*dy well waste it.

At which point in my post did I mention any thing about someone else paying my way in the world.

I simply stated that the average household is struggling without more charges being added on.

I'm not one for mindless waste in anything, I do my share.

hatrickpatrick · 11-01-2013 8:34pm

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

So what services is this household charge covering?

Councillors' fact finding missions to exotic tropical islands, which of course provide much valuable information about how to run things which in no way applies to a place like Ireland.

ted1 · 11-01-2013 8:34pm

Most water is used in the toilet, bath, shower, washing machine, dishwasher, sink etc
Only a bit is drunk. So you can't say your not paying as its got fluoride etc, that's a kop out, buy drinking water in the shop. That's the alternative.

Also as above most water is wasted with taps left on, stoppers not used, hoses being used to wash cars and gardens.

Charging will reduce these waste and people will start harvesting rain water

hatrickpatrick · 11-01-2013 8:37pm

monkeypants wrote: »

From the Indo, but I heard it said on the radio too:

So it's very important, but not as important as them keeping their jobs. Water can be covered by general taxation until the local elections, but the tax base will have to be broadened after.
Here's to remembering and voting. What promises can they make now that we'll believe?

But that's how our moronic political system works. We only have leverage in the immediate run up to an election, afterwards they don't have to give a rat's ass what the people want.

As i've said time and time again, the only way we'll ever have true democracy is with a system of recall, wherein the people can force a bye election if their TD consistently votes against his or her constituents' wishes in the Dail.

smileyj1987 · 11-01-2013 8:40pm

Devia wrote: »

Your water will be cut off.

I wonder could you take the Irish government to court if you can't afford to pay for water because you could class it as a basic necessity .

dvpower · 11-01-2013 8:55pm

smileyj1987 wrote: »

I wonder could you take the Irish government to court if you can't afford to pay for water because you could class it as a basic necessity .

As is food. Can you bring the government to court for not delivering free food to your house? !

Edit: They are going to provide a certain allowance for free. You only pay in excess of that.

Chinasea · 12-01-2013 10:44am

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

At which point in my post did I mention any thing about someone else paying my way in the world.

I simply stated that the average household is struggling without more charges being added on.

I'm not one for mindless waste in anything, I do my share.

My query was in relation to who you believe should pay your bills generated by YOU?

You listed, childminding, bins, mortgage etc., now unless we are are living in Brunei I have yet to figure out how DE Gov'ernmnt can pay these, and for that matter why the heck should they?

Am Chile · 12-01-2013 11:39am

dvpower wrote: »

As is food. Can you bring the government to court for not delivering free food to your house? !

Edit: They are going to provide a certain allowance for free. You only pay in excess of that.

Edit for the first year or so they might provide a certain allowance without a charge to try hoodwink people into paying water charges to get them to think sure its not all that bad-then gradually the so called free allowance goes down bit by bit until there is no allowance and they charge people for every drip of water-some people can see through the tactic they re using the so called free allowance is only an attempt to soften any dissent people may have about water charges.

Worztron · 23-02-2013 11:52am

From time to time brown water comes out of the cold water tap. The tap needs to be run for a while. Does this mean we must pay for that crap also? No doubt the 40%+ water loss through leaks will remain. :mad:

bgrizzley · 23-02-2013 1:01pm

Worztron wrote: »

From time to time brown water comes out of the cold water tap. The tap needs to be run for a while. Does this mean we must pay for that crap also? No doubt the 40%+ water loss through leaks will remain. :mad:

why would they bother fixing it if they can persuade people to pay for it?

Take the Minister for the Environments advice and dont pay for a service you are not happy with...

ilovesleep · 23-02-2013 5:57pm

ted1 wrote: »

Also as above most water is wasted with taps left on, stoppers not used, hoses being used to wash cars & gardens.

Charging will reduce these waste and people will start harvesting rain water

How do you know of all this water wastage? Are you in & out from peoples homes monitoring their water usage?

- I turn of the tap when brushing my teeth.
- Showering, I hop in, wet myself. Then turn off the shower to lather up. & then back on again to rinse.
- showers are once or twice a week. Babywipes & dry shampoo in between.
- have no car to wash.
- the lawn gets enough water with rain.
- the dog gets 2/3 showers a year.
- washing hands. The sink is filled with water a bit.

I like 2 think that I do my bit to save water & I hate being lumped n to that generalisation that we all waste water pourin it over our cars or in other ways & unless you are going into many, many homes around ireland & observing their water usage - you've no idea. Their water usage is just speculation from you

ilovesleep · 23-02-2013 6:00pm

I priced a rain water harvesting system and it's about 15,000 grand. Many homes in Ireland don't have a rain water system nor do many people have 15,000 to invest in a rain water harvesting system.

ilovesleep · 23-02-2013 6:16pm

Lets face it, these water charges are being brought in as another source of revenue for the government to help bridge the deficit gap.

IMO, water meters is just another spending wastage. When we're already short on money and all. A flat rate would be better to stomach.

_Kaiser_ · 23-02-2013 7:21pm

ilovesleep wrote: »

How do you know of all this water wastage? Are you in & out from peoples homes monitoring their water usage?

- I turn of the tap when brushing my teeth.
- Showering, I hop in, wet myself. Then turn off the shower to lather up. & then back on again to rinse.
- showers are once or twice a week. Babywipes & dry shampoo in between.
- have no car to wash.
- the lawn gets enough water with rain.
- the dog gets 2/3 showers a year.
- washing hands. The sink is filled with water a bit.

I like 2 think that I do my bit to save water & I hate being lumped n to that generalisation that we all waste water pourin it over our cars or in other ways & unless you are going into many, many homes around ireland & observing their water usage - you've no idea. Their water usage is just speculation from you

What the...?

I think I would be right in saying that you're the exception with that routine.

ottostreet · 23-02-2013 8:22pm

Showers once or twice a week? Ugh.

sensormatic · 23-02-2013 9:19pm

tapping into the building next door as they say

ilovesleep · 23-02-2013 9:40pm

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

What the...?

I think I would be right in saying that you're the exception with that routine.

I know someone who takes a shower daily and going by this response there's probably more like that. When water charges & metering kicks in, many of those with daily showers, depending on financial circumstances, will have to cut down. And well, I'm well used to it now.

Savage93 · 23-02-2013 9:48pm

BackScrub wrote: »

We'll rue the day we gave thick Enda, fascist Phil, slick Leo and absent Eamonn these jobs.

You forget all this was caused by Fianna Fail over nearly 15 years of madness and sadly, regardless of who's in government, we'll be probably 40 years paying for it

JohnMarston · 23-02-2013 9:51pm

sensormatic wrote: »

tapping into the building next door as they say

I see what you did there

Merch · 23-02-2013 10:09pm

ilovesleep wrote: »

Lets face it, these water charges are being brought in as another source of revenue for the government to help bridge the deficit gap.

IMO, water meters is just another spending wastage. When we're already short on money and all. A flat rate would be better to stomach.

You think a flat rate would be better, well why would anyone bother make any effort to conserve water, like you are, or me?

If I am to be charged the same as people near me that regularily powerwash their car/drive etc among other things, why would we bother?

I dont really want to have to pay for water but it is one of the things I can see that has a more valid reason for a charge.
A flat rate will only discourage people from not running the garden hose all day, I know what they will say.

JohnMarston · 23-02-2013 10:29pm

Merch wrote: »

You think a flat rate would be better, well why would anyone bother make any effort to conserve water, like you are, or me?

If I am to be charged the same as people near me that regularily powerwash their car/drive etc among other things, why would we bother?

I dont really want to have to pay for water but it is one of the things I can see that has a more valid reason for a charge.
A flat rate will only discourage people from not running the garden hose all day, I know what they will say.

They would still be making money on a resource that is still untaxed. More than they were, which was zero. A flat rate for all, but if you exceed x number of litres, you owe more.
That would still allow a moderately liberal use of water, but still affect those who abuse it

Merch · 23-02-2013 10:35pm

JohnMarston wrote: »

They would still be making money on a resource that is still untaxed. More than they were, which was zero. A flat rate for all, but if you exceed x number of litres, you owe more.

Yes, but if you can store up as much water as possible and utilise that, being charged for actual usage promotes conserving water.

A flat rate with a set x amount of water included doesnt encourage anyone to conserve more water than the x amount.

Gee_G · 23-02-2013 10:56pm

What's the story with houses that are already on a scheme and paying water charges?we pay about €150 water charges per year.

ilovesleep · 23-02-2013 11:13pm

Merch wrote: »

You think a flat rate would be better, well why would anyone bother make any effort to conserve water, like you are, or me?

If I am to be charged the same as people near me that regularily powerwash their car/drive etc among other things, why would we bother?

I dont really want to have to pay for water but it is one of the things I can see that has a more valid reason for a charge.
A flat rate will only discourage people from not running the garden hose all day, I know what they will say.

I find it very difficult to understand what you are saying here. I mean if the government was to introduce a flat water tax that people are going to turn around & turn on their taps & leave water running in spite or whatever. That logic, reasoning & arguement is so fcuked up.

Ireland is broke & imo spending money outsourcing meters does not make financial sense.

Merch · 23-02-2013 11:25pm

ilovesleep wrote: »

I find it very difficult to understand what you are saying here. I mean if the government was to introduce a flat water tax that people are going to turn around & turn on their taps & leave water running in spite or whatever. That logic, reasoning & arguement is so fcuked up.

Ireland is broke & imo spending money outsourcing meters does not make financial sense.

What I am saying is some people, if they have to pay a flat rate will use as much as they need, they will not try to conserve water, will not bother to fix the leaking tap or the broken toilet cistern float that has been overflowing for months, will continue to powerwash their drive and car among other things.
They will feel justified in using as much as they need/can, if they pay the flat rate.

One of my neighbours regularily hoses or powerwashes their drive and cars, its an almost weekly ritual, even in the winter, unless its literally freezing conditions.
Often enough I can see a stream run down the roadside to the drain when no one is present, just leave the hose running.
I'd hazard a guess that turning off the tap while brushing their teeth doesnt occur to them at all.

Im not suggesting its spite, (they already do it, and they will have no incentive to conserve water unless they are charged for every drop they use) Just because you have difficulty understanding it doesnt mean it doesnt happen.
I cant comprehend it myself, but there you go

squod · 23-02-2013 11:32pm

Merch wrote: »

.......... if they have to pay a flat rate will use as much as they need, they will not try to conserve water, will not bother to fix the leaking tap or the broken toilet cistern float

Where are the guarantees from the provider that there'll be less waste in the system?

It's more than likely that this project will go tits up and the ''user'' (now customer) will be asked to pay for inefficiencies by the ''supplier'' (now vendor).

ilovesleep · 23-02-2013 11:37pm

That's utter sh1te. I haven't taken a bath in years. Its showers with me. My family are the same. I also work for other families in their homes - its shower. Theres only 1 who takes a bath but thats because shes wheelchair bound and cant stand. What you're pretty much saying is that if the government introduces a flat rate, out of spite we'll all turn to baths. Or maybe we won't. We'll make do with our shower, & we'll turn on our bath taps without the plug in, for good measure.

A flat rate hasn't even been tired here. Its a stupid arguement.

Where do you live that your neighbours are out washing their car and driveways on a daily/weekly basis. Funny how I dont see my neighbours out doing the same or even remotely similiar.

Merch · 23-02-2013 11:44pm

ilovesleep wrote: »

That's utter sh1te. I haven't taken a bath in years. Its showers with me. My family are the same. I also work for other families in their homes - its shower. Theres only 1 who takes a bath but thats because shes wheelchair bound and cant stand. What you're pretty much saying is that if the government introduces a flat rate, out of spite we'll all turn to baths. Or maybe we won't. We'll make do with our shower, & we'll turn on our bath taps without the plug in, for good measure.

A flat rate hasn't even been tired here. Its a stupid arguement.

Where do you live that your neighbours are out washing their car and driveways on a daily/weekly basis. Funny how I dont see my neighbours out doing the same or even remotely similiar.

Im not talking about you or anyone that is already concerned about conserving water, Im not saying everyone will have baths instead of showers out of spite, so stop being so ridiculous and chill out.

I mean the people who already couldnt be arsed or are completley unaware of conserving water, they will continue as is.
You or I or anyone that does monitor usage will pay the same in a flat rate scenario as someone that powerwashes their drive on a weekly basis.

Households must pay for water meters.

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