Sinn Féin,s "Republic Day".

golfball37 · 22-02-2013 03:21PM

We've seen this 100 times before. There is a cabal of people in Eire who will just not support a SF motion for anything no matter if its in the public good. A case in point is the tacid acceptance from a substantial minority who feel its appropriate to reference a dead widow from the 70's when the SF asks a budgerary question in the Daill ffs.
The amount of pople who sneered when Doherty brought the FF/IMF govt to court over the by election too was a real eye opener for me. Its almost as though we don't want to grow up as a nation.

This idea stinks however.

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:21PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

SF kind of created that trap themselves by saying it should commemorate the Provisional IRA. In that context, how could it be anything other than Sinn Fein Day?

Are you preferring a "two class society" in which only a "selected minority" is worth to be commemorated? Shame on you if you do. Reconciliation also means to include these people, otherwise you could forget about the whole thing altogether.

Iwasfrozen · 22-02-2013 03:24PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

Are you preferring a "two class society" in which only a "selected minority" is worth to be commemorated? Shame on you if you do. Reconciliation also means to include these people, otherwise you could forget about the whole thing altogether.

Then let's forget about the whole thing. Much better then honouring terrorists.

golfball37 · 22-02-2013 03:25PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

SF kind of created that trap themselves by saying it should commemorate the Provisional IRA. In that context, how could it be anything other than Sinn Fein Day?

You've avaoided this on a numnber of threads but why are the Old IRA ok to commerorate and not the Provos? They both had the same goal.

In fact the only difference between them from what I can see is the Provos had more right to start a war than the Old IRA. Its not as though we were being oppressed in 1920 or denied basic civil rights.

Both killed many innocent women and children so whats the difference?

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:25PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I don't regard Northern Ireland as being part of the Irish republic.

I don´t regard NI in that way either, I just see it as an from the Republic of Ireland excluded area of the whole Irish Island which is geographically part of it.

gobnaitolunacy · 22-02-2013 03:26PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

I don´t regard NI in that way either, I just see it as an from the Republic of Ireland excluded area of the whole Irish Island which is geographically part of it.

What?

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:26PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Then let's forget about the whole thing. Much better then honouring terrorists.

That is exactly what I´d have expected from you, I´m just a little surprised that this has come so quickly.

enda1 · 22-02-2013 03:27PM

Republicanism should not be something that's celebrated. Patriotism is a dangerous out dated idiosyncrasy.

LordSutch · 22-02-2013 03:28PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

That is exactly what I´d have expected from you, I´m just a little surprised that this has come so quickly.

Do you deny that the PIRA were terrorists?

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:29PM

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

What?

Republic of Ireland + Northern Ireland = Island of Ireland.

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:30PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Do you deny that the PIRA were terrorists?

No, I don´t deny that but I think that it might be time to get over it.

super_furry · 22-02-2013 03:30PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

Republic of Ireland + Northern Ireland = Island of Ireland.

True, but there's no such country as the Island of Ireland.

Iwasfrozen · 22-02-2013 03:31PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

That is exactly what I´d have expected from you, I´m just a little surprised that this has come so quickly.

You expected me to say forget about it?

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:34PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You expected me to say forget about it?

Not you in particular, but I expected an reply likewise of yours from other posters who are against the idea, like you.

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:36PM

super_furry wrote: »

True, but there's no such country as the Island of Ireland.

At the present, but who knows the future? Maybe some day there could be just "one Ireland" including the friends in the North.

super_furry · 22-02-2013 03:37PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

At the present, but who knows the future? Maybe some day there could be just "one Ireland" including the friends in the North.

Except they're not all your friends are they? In fact the majority of them want nothing to do with you.

maithanfear · 22-02-2013 03:41PM

There are many of those in the north of Ireland who don't share the view that 'the IRA were terrorists'. To many in the north, the IRA were looked upon as heroes who came to the defence of a community whose very existance was deplorable to the state which governed them. Just go to Belfast on Easter Sunday and you will see how revered Republicans are.
Any Easter Commemoration I have seen in Belfast would put to shame any commeoration held in the so-called 'Irish Republic'.
If Irish Republic Day is inclusive of Provisional IRA Volunteers who fought and died against the United Kingdom, then I fully support it. What the Provsional IRA did is no different from what the Old IRA did and its time people started realising that.
Republicanism never limited itself to the borders of Louth and Monaghan, there are half a million Irish citizens in the six counties who would argue against that.

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:41PM

super_furry wrote: »

Except they're not all your friends are they? In fact the majority of them want nothing to do with you.

I suppose that´s quite so.:pac:

I wasn´t referring to "my friends" in my post, it was a more general meaning.

Iwasfrozen · 22-02-2013 03:42PM

super_furry wrote: »

Except they're not all your friends are they? In fact the majority of them want nothing to do with you.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxq9ayhdUW1r2v2y6o1_500.jpg
I'm going on a walk with my northern friends. I'll get my coat.

LordSutch · 22-02-2013 03:43PM

Thomas_I wrote: »

No, I don´t deny that but I think that it might be time to get over it.

But how can we get over it when Sinn Fein personnel will defend the Provo's to the hilt! According to Sinn Fein, the Provo's were a brave and justifiable Army (the Irish Republican Army) no less, who fought a war in the name of the Irish people . . . . .

Unfortunately for them, 'We' the Irish people never gave our consent to Bomb & maim at will, hence we still "can't just get over it" as you put it. Not in this generation anyway.

Ash.J.Williams · 22-02-2013 03:43PM

maithanfear wrote: »

There are many of those in the north of Ireland who don't share the view that 'the IRA were terrorists'. To many in the north, the IRA were looked upon as heroes who came to the defence of a community whose very existance was deplorable to the state which governed them. Just go to Belfast on Easter Sunday and you will see how revered Republicans are.
Any Easter Commemoration I have seen in Belfast would put to shame any commeoration held in the so-called 'Irish Republic'.
If Irish Republic Day is inclusive of Provisional IRA Volunteers who fought and died against the United Kingdom, then I fully support it. What the Provsional IRA did is no different from what the Old IRA did and its time people started realising that.
Republicanism never limited itself to the borders of Louth and Monaghan, there are half a million Irish citizens in the six counties who would argue against that.

I wouldn't use the word "many"

Ash.J.Williams · 22-02-2013 03:44PM

maithanfear wrote: »

There are many of those in the north of Ireland who don't share the view that 'the IRA were terrorists'. To many in the north, the IRA were looked upon as heroes who came to the defence of a community whose very existance was deplorable to the state which governed them. Just go to Belfast on Easter Sunday and you will see how revered Republicans are.
Any Easter Commemoration I have seen in Belfast would put to shame any commeoration held in the so-called 'Irish Republic'.
If Irish Republic Day is inclusive of Provisional IRA Volunteers who fought and died against the United Kingdom, then I fully support it. What the Provsional IRA did is no different from what the Old IRA did and its time people started realising that.
Republicanism never limited itself to the borders of Louth and Monaghan, there are half a million Irish citizens in the six counties who would argue against that.

There were "many" people in the north that thought the IRA were a pain in the hole too?

Crooked Jack · 22-02-2013 03:46PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

We already have an independent Irish republic.

you're hiding it well

maithanfear · 22-02-2013 03:49PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I wouldn't use the word "many"

I would, the murals are testament to it.

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:50PM

LordSutch wrote: »

But how can we get over it when Sinn Fein personnel will defend the Provo's to the hilt! According to Sinn Fein, the Provo's were a brave and justifiable Army (the Irish Republican Army) no less, who fought a war in the name of the Irish people . . . . .

Unfortunately for them, 'We' the Irish people never gave our consent to Bomb & maim at will, hence we still "can't just get over it" as you put it. Not in this generation anyway.

Isn´t it interesting that every side may it be pro or contrary to this "IRA story" claims that they are "we" alone? When has it ever been that this "we" for "the Irish people" to give "consent" to any uprising in Irelands history has been either demanded or been given? Such procedures are not in the nature of uprisings, to seek consent by the people beforehand. Sorry but those who started it were most people of an relative small circle but with the determination to act for many.

I agree with you that this is also a matter for generations to solve, but the sooner it can be solved, the better for the generations to come. They wouldn´t had to carry the bucket for themselves, they´d be free of that.

LordSutch · 22-02-2013 03:52PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I wouldn't use the word "many"

Hindsight is a great thing, but at the time of the Troubles, as the murders, knee cappings & mass bombings were taking place, the Shinners were in the ha'penny place, (with the SDLP in the ascendency), and it was only after the Republican movement took the political route that SF began to garner wider support in Northern Ireland.

I feel sorry for the SDLP who did so much, but who ultimately ran out of steam (I guess)? & got sidetracked.

.jacksparrow. · 22-02-2013 03:54PM

LordSutch wrote: »

But how can we get over it when Sinn Fein personnel will defend the Provo's to the hilt! According to Sinn Fein, the Provo's were a brave and justifiable Army (the Irish Republican Army) no less, who fought a war in the name of the Irish people . . . . .

Unfortunately for them, 'We' the Irish people never gave our consent to Bomb & maim at will, hence we still "can't just get over it" as you put it. Not in this generation anyway.

To be honest I don't think they ever cared whether they had the backing or not,its not how rebellions work.

Just look at syria,I don't seem to recall a vote taking place on the bombing which resulted in children's lives been lost yesterday.

Thomas_I · 22-02-2013 03:56PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Hindsight is a great thing, but at the time of the Troubles, as the murders, knee cappings & mass bombings were taking place, the Shinners were in the ha'penny place, (with the SDLP in the ascendency), and it was only after the Republican movement took the political route that SF began to garner wider support in Northern Ireland.

I feel sorry for the SDLP who did so much, but who ultimately ran out of steam (I guess)? & got sidetracked.

That´s the disadvantage from not knowing which side to take on in such times of conflict. I can imagine that, I´m also more kept inbetween the lines on that issue.

LordSutch · 22-02-2013 03:56PM

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

To be honest I don't think they ever cared whether they had the backing or not,its not how rebellions work.

Just look at syria,I don't seem to recall a vote taking place on the bombing which resulted in children's lives been lost yesterday.

Problem is then, where do you draw the line?

Lets say the CIRA plant a Bomb in a Belfast pub tomorrow, is that legit? is that the beginning of a just rebellion in the name of the Irish people?
or is it a terrorist attack (as I would say).

.jacksparrow. · 22-02-2013 03:56PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Hindsight is a great thing, but at the time of the Troubles, as the murders, knee cappings & mass bombings were taking place, the Shinners were in the ha'penny place, (with the SDLP in the ascendency), and it was only after the Republican movement took the political route that SF began to garner wider support in Northern Ireland.

I feel sorry for the SDLP who did so much, but who ultimately ran out of steam (I guess)? & got sidetracked.

By your logic the sdlp should be where the sinn Fein are,but they are not.

Do you not wonder why sinn Fein have this support?

Sinn Féin,s "Republic Day".

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