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Is multiculturalism wanted??

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  • #182
    SirTallaghtban
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭SirTallaghtban


    Lou.m wrote: »
    I have to say....this thread confuses me....so is Paul Mcgragh Irish??

    Phil Lynnott???

    Both born in the UK. That makes them native britons to some on this thread.7


  • #183
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    woodoo wrote: »
    Explain what you think i don't get?

    The reality. Tarring all Muslims with the same brush is daft.

    I have a number of very good friends who are Muslims and a number of whom take their Islam very seriously, a number of them don't at all and are probably about as secular as your average Londoner.

    There are a minority who do intentionally isolate themselves from others, particularly women from non-Muslim men. However there are a number of differing groups who do this not exclusively those Muslims.


  • #184
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    woodoo wrote: »
    Deal with the issue alot of white londoners seem to be having with their city today. There is clearly a problem, you may want to gloss over it with smartarsery but there is a problem.
    No there isn't. There is a small minded loud mouthed minority. Sure you'll find plenty of anti-multicultural stuff in internet debate but those are people who feel the need to post about it. Many don't. In any debate like that you'll get the polar opposite and most vehement opinions that don't necessarily describe the public mood.


  • #185
    SirTallaghtban
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭SirTallaghtban


    Less of this Ireland has a tiny immigrant population nonsense. It doesnt. It has one of the highest in the world. Nearly six times the global average.

    Only 3 per cent of the global population are immigrants. Irelands foreign born population is 17 per cent of our population!


  • #186
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    SirTallaghtban wrote: »
    Explain then why Marie La Pen polled so well, why the French national team is divided amongst ethnic lines, why the ethnic French have stopped supporting the multiracial nation team and please explain the growth of the newly formed group called generation identitaire.

    If thats your best example of a multicultural success story, then count me out.

    Looks like a nation about to enter ethnic conflict. Balkanisation.

    :-) Explain why she lost?????

    She polled well did she....erm no ....

    Football has always had it's scum....there is no excuse for that...it is a racist game always has been long before immigration.

    You are revealing your true colors.

    You are echoing the extremes of neo nazis. To avoid being called one.

    Next you will lsay..oh I do not agree with these people...but I can see why they feel this way.

    When you really mean you like La Pen and want football teams to be 'ethnically clean'
    Looks like a nation about to enter ethnic conflict. Balkanisation.

    That is the stupidest thing I have heard on this thread.


    If anything France has become more united and more global resenting the idea of nationality especially under Hollande. Look at what happened to Depardieu cheered when he said he was immigrating to Belgium and handing in his pass port to become a Belgian citizen. The Govt tried to say he was anti-patriotic..anti-french..they were lambasted ..

    The people you speak of are the Scum normal French people hate.


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  • #187
    Hailee Wailing Microcomputer
    Posts: 0 ✭ Hailee Wailing Microcomputer


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Bollocks.

    The majority of Muslims are happy to integrate with other societies, just like anyone else is.

    Any Muslim I have ever known has been going along with life exactly as normal, they just follow a different religious code.

    Now, if you're claiming some nonsense like they all want their own laws enforced in other countries, then you're wrong.

    With that said, I do not agree with an average countries laws being altered to suit the religious/cultural laws of another society, especially if it will lower the civil rights of a group of people.

    Bollix. There are huge numbers of areas in different cities where Muslims don't interact with any other religions. I've been in areas of London where I was stared at and had comments made to me because I wasn't in Muslim dress. I personally know quite a few people who want alcohol banned and who tell random women to cover up. I lived in an area which was very mixed and I couldn't even buy any pork products because all the shops were run by Muslims. I'm not a Muslim-hating Daily Mail reader. Some of my best friends are Muslims, but let's not pretend that there isn't a very real issue in some of the inner cities.


  • #188
    SirTallaghtban
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭SirTallaghtban


    Johro wrote: »
    No there isn't. There is a small minded loud mouthed minority. Sure you'll find plenty of anti-multicultural stuff in internet debate but those are people who feel the need to post about it. Many don't, especially those who go 'meh...'. In any debate like that you'll get the polar opposite and most vehement opinions that don't necessarily describe the public mood.

    65% of brits polled in a recent ipsos survey agreed with the statement "there are too many immigrants in our country".

    The same for each and every EU member state.

    But yeah, convince yourself that its only people on the internet whom are anti mass immigration from non European countries. Alls rosy, honest!


  • #189
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    SirTallaghtban wrote: »
    What was Dublins foreign born population 15 years ago? A per cent or two.
    What was Dublins foreign born population according to the last census? 25-30%

    Irelands foreign born pop. was 17 per cent iirc.

    One of the highest in the world. The equivalent of the US letting in circa 60 million immigrants in just over a decade.

    Where are you getting your figures from? According to the CSO:

    For the entire country in 2011:
    non-Irish nationals: 544,357
    Total population: 4,525,281
    Non-Irish nationals as % of the total population: 12%
    The foreign-born population in 2002 was 5.8%

    And for Dublin in 2011:
    non-Irish nationals: 195,496
    Total population: 1,248,107
    Non-Irish nationals as % of the total population: 15.6%


  • #190
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    SirTallaghtban wrote: »
    Less of this Ireland has a tiny immigrant population nonsense. It doesnt. It has one of the highest in the world. Nearly six times the global average.

    Only 3 per cent of the global population are immigrants. Irelands foreign born population is 17 per cent of our population!

    Good....the stronger the population the less acceptable racism becomes.

    So we all become brown...YAY


  • #191
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    Where are you getting your figures from? According to the CSO:

    For the entire country in 2011:
    non-Irish nationals: 544,357
    Total population: 4,525,281
    Non-Irish nationals as % of the total population: 12%
    The foreign-born population in 2002 was 5.8%

    And for Dublin in 2011:
    non-Irish nationals: 195,496
    Total population: 1,248,107
    Non-Irish nationals as % of the total population: 15.6%

    I say we all inter marry and get rid of this issue once and for all....a race of gorgeous people ...then we immigrate the **** out of this wet little rock. :D


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  • #192
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    SirTallaghtban wrote: »
    Less of this Ireland has a tiny immigrant population nonsense. It doesnt. It has one of the highest in the world. Nearly six times the global average.

    Only 3 per cent of the global population are immigrants. Irelands foreign born population is 17 per cent of our population!

    Not only are your figures wrong, this is a stupid comparison. You can't compare Ireland to the rest of the world - you need to compare it to other highly developed Western countries, namely Western Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. From that vantage point, Ireland isn't unusual - it has just finally caught up to the rest of the Western OECD countries. Same with Spain - like Ireland, it was an economic backwater until relatively recently, and it underwent a larger and more rapid influx of immigrants over the last 15-20 years than Ireland, even controlling for the population.


  • #193
    SirTallaghtban
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭SirTallaghtban


    Lou.m wrote: »
    Good....the stronger the population the less acceptable racism becomes.

    So we all become brown...YAY

    Are you for real? Kill off whitey to end racism?

    I am actually terrified that people like you are allowed to roam free.


  • #194
    SirTallaghtban
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭SirTallaghtban


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    Not only are your figures wrong, this is a stupid comparison. You can't compare Ireland to the rest of the world - you need to compare it to other highly developed Western countries, namely Western Europe, the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. From that vantage point, Ireland isn't unusual - it has just finally caught up to the rest of the Western OECD countries. Same with Spain - like Ireland, it was an economic backwater until relatively recently, and it underwent a larger and more rapid influx of immigrants over the last 15-20 years than Ireland, even controlling for the population.

    You have been comparing ireland and her people with the rest of the world in the majority of your posts on this thread. Bit rich, that.

    My figures are from the last census.


  • #195
    woodoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,219 ✭✭✭woodoo


    Lou.m wrote: »
    I say we all inter marry and get rid of this issue once and for all....a race of gorgeous people ...then we immigrate the **** out of this wet little rock. :D

    I would love to see what people would look like if all the major races in the world were integrated. A computer generated estimate would be nice to see.


  • #196
    SirTallaghtban
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 63 ✭✭SirTallaghtban


    Lou.m wrote: »
    I say we all inter marry and get rid of this issue once and for all....a race of gorgeous people ...then we immigrate the **** out of this wet little rock. :D

    Off you pop. May I suggest africa, east asia or the middle east?

    Remember to tell them that they are too black or brown.

    Or is it only native Europeans you want to mix out of existence?


  • #197
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    SirTallaghtban wrote: »
    65% of brits polled in a recent ipsos survey agreed with the statement "there are too many immigrants in our country".

    The same for each and every EU member state.

    But yeah, convince yourself that its only people on the internet whom are anti mass immigration from non European countries. Alls rosy, honest!
    If you're anti-immigration, why are you only anti non EU immigration??
    This issue of multiculturalism is only becoming more confused on here really.
    Thinly veiled xenophobe thread.


  • #198
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Hailee Wailing Microcomputer wrote: »
    Bollix. There are huge numbers of areas in different cities where Muslims don't interact with any other religions. I've been in areas of London where I was stared at and had comments made to me because I wasn't in Muslim dress. I personally know quite a few people who want alcohol banned and who tell random women to cover up. I lived in an area which was very mixed and I couldn't even buy any pork products because all the shops were run by Muslims. I'm not a Muslim-hating Daily Mail reader. Some of my best friends are Muslims, but let's not pretend that there isn't a very real issue in some of the inner cities.

    This is where I think multiculturalism as a policy has failed: people may have the right to do their own thing, but they don't have the right to impose that on others.

    That said, I think this is a problem with religious conservatives everywhere: there has been a great deal of tension between the ultra-Orthodox and reform/secular Jews in Israel, and there have also been big fights between the ultra-Orthodox and young, white hipsters in Brooklyn. Most of these involve issues of women not 'covering up' (on the bus in Israel, and on the bike path in Brooklyn).

    If people want to have halal butchers or whatever then fine, but that is a private matter. However, people should not be able to impose their private values on the public, and this is a key challenge for liberal societies.


  • #199
    periodictable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Azure_sky wrote: »
    Not wanting multi-cultural is not racism, it's xeno-phobia.

    Rubbish. You have no idea what xenophobia means-considering you have hyphenated the word, that might be a good starting point from which to figure out what the word means.
    I have no fear of foreigners. As for multiculturalism, I have no problem with different cultures in this country, but I won't countenance neighborhoods with street names in arabic or hindi, or being made to feel unwelcome in any part of this island because I'm the wrong color.
    You want to come here, get with the program and become as Irish as the Irish themselves.


  • #200
    AeoNGriM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭AeoNGriM


    wprathead wrote: »
    these threads always end well

    Maybe if you made a positive contribution to the discussion instead of posting negative comments it wouldn't go downhill in a hurry?

    Just a thought......


  • #201
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    SirTallaghtban wrote: »
    You have been comparing ireland and her people with the rest of the world in the majority of your posts on this thread. Bit rich, that.

    My figures are from the last census.

    No, I've compared Ireland with Europe and the US. But thanks for mis-representing my posts.

    Oh, and I have linked to the CSO 2011 census figures. If you have some alternative data, then please post it. Otherwise, stop making things up.


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  • #202
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    SirTallaghtban wrote: »
    65% of brits polled in a recent ipsos survey agreed with the statement "there are too many immigrants in our country".

    The same for each and every EU member state.

    But yeah, convince yourself that its only people on the internet whom are anti mass immigration from non European countries. Alls rosy, honest!

    Lol your excuse for your racism seemsto be erm LOOK EVERYONE ELSE IS RACIST TOO....YEAH THEY ARE

    You are trying to say your opinion is correct by claiming others have it too.That is not a valid argument.

    By the way...I read a poll once where 60 % or so of Belgians claimed to be racist..

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/belgium-heads-eu-racism-league-1289695.html

    Not because of immigration or any other excuse....they were just racist.nothing about immigration....either abroad or in Belgian ..they don't like other races...

    So because the poll shows over half of them doe that mean racism is ok or does it mean actually they are just assholes???


    Maybe other nationalities should have the right to live here if we want the right to live elsewhere ..and we do

    And question....are you racist? Do you mind interracial marriage or have close friends who are not white?

    And before you ask yes I do many.


  • #203
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    southsiderosie wrote: »
    This is where I think multiculturalism as a policy has failed: people may have the right to do their own thing, but they don't have the right to impose that on others.

    That said, I think this is a problem with religious conservatives everywhere    : there has been a great deal of tension between the ultra-Orthodox and reform/secular Jews in Israel, and there have also been big fights between the ultra-Orthodox and young, white hipsters in Brooklyn. Most of these involve issues of women not 'covering up' (on the bus in Israel, and on the bike path in Brooklyn).

    If people want to have halal butchers or whatever then fine, but that is a private matter. However, people should not be able to impose their private values on the public, and this is a key challenge for liberal societies.
    That's the crucial point, you'll get the same kind of stifling moral attitudes from white ultra rightwing christianity, and it's not indicative of the people as a whole.


  • #204
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Johro wrote: »
    If you're anti-immigration, why are you only anti non EU immigration??
    This issue of multiculturalism is only becoming more confused on here really.
    Thinly veiled xenophobe thread.

    xenophobia is a hear of those from other countries whether they are the same race or not. To dislike or discriminate against people from countries with a non white native population or against non white people is simply racism.

    To do it on the basis of race religion ,nationality or sexual orientation is ust bigotry.

    There is a growing frightening trend Europe amongst the various storm front groups to suggest 'we are all (white) Europeans ' a sort of weird EU nationalism I have noticed.

    I first came across it when Sarkozy tried to take action against Romanian Traveller people at EU level effectively trying to ban these people from their own continent.

    Except in the UK where generally racist leaning parties are associated with being anti EU.

    It is odd that. It is strange to see organizations like the golden dawn try to set up overseas! POT KETTLE


  • #205
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    periodictable wrote: »
    I have no problem with different cultures in this country
    You want to come here, get with the program and become as Irish as the Irish themselves.

    Make your mind up.


  • #206
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    I remember this same debate in Holland in the eighties, criticism of multiculturalism masking racist attitudes, it's funny how it dissipated as the economy healed and there were plenty of jobs to be had again.


  • #207
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    SirTallaghtban wrote: »
    Off you pop. May I suggest africa, east asia or the middle east?

    Remember to tell them that they are too black or brown.

    Or is it only native Europeans you want to mix out of existence?


    I would say..hey sey baby I am too white;)

    It is the concept of race that I would like to mix out of existence. So yeah all races into one....then we can get down to a huge class war....

    I don't have to go anywhere apparently I can just stay here.

    Don't be silly it is natural for people to intermarry...check out Brazil etc...America ..it is happening it is totally natural.

    Wow you REALLY ARE coming off a racist.


    You really don't like interracial marriage do you?


  • #208
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    Lou.m wrote: »
    xenophobia is a hear of those from other countries whether they are the same race or not. To dislike or discriminate against people from countries with a non white native population or against non white people is simply racism.

    To do it on the basis of race religion ,nationality or sexual orientation is ust bigotry.

    There is a growing frightening trend Europe amongst the various storm front groups to suggest 'we are all (white) Europeans ' a sort of weird EU nationalism I have noticed.

    I first came across it when Sarkozy tried to take action against Romanian Traveller people at EU level effectively trying to ban these people from their own continent.

    Except in the UK where generally racist leaning parties are associated with being anti EU.

    It is odd that. It is strange to see organizations like the golden dawn try to set up overseas! POT KETTLE
    Well I'm not oblivious to the rise of racist organisations all across europe, or the racist/fascist attitude of some of its governments. There was a news special on Greece not so long ago that showed an alarming rise in racist attitudes. I think it goes hand in hand with economic recession, it certainly doesn't help it.


  • #209
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Question, is it racist or xenophobic of me, as an Irish person to want to:
    a) Be able to speak my native language (English) on my main street
    b) Be able to buy whatever food products I want in my local shop
    c) Be able to go into a pub and have a pint
    d) Be able to walk into a betting shop and have a punt
    e) Not hear people shouting at women to 'cover up'
    in Dublin?

    Now, is it racist or xenophobic of an English person to want to:
    a) Be able to speak their native language (English) on their main street
    b) Be able to buy whatever food products they want in their local shop
    c) Be able to go into a pub and have a pint
    d) Be able to walk into a betting shop and have a punt
    e) Not hear people shouting at women to 'cover up'
    in London?

    I think that is the crux of the matter that a good proportion of the English population of London have issue with


  • #210
    Johro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Johro


    P_1 wrote: »
    Question, is it racist or xenophobic of me, as an Irish person to want to:
    a) Be able to speak my native language (English) on my main street
    b) Be able to buy whatever food products I want in my local shop
    c) Be able to go into a pub and have a pint
    d) Be able to walk into a betting shop and have a punt
    e) Not hear people shouting at women to 'cover up'
    in Dublin?

    Now, is it racist or xenophobic of an English person to want to:
    a) Be able to speak their native language (English) on their main street
    b) Be able to buy whatever food products they want in their local shop
    c) Be able to go into a pub and have a pint
    d) Be able to walk into a betting shop and have a punt
    e) Not hear people shouting at women to 'cover up'
    in London?

    I think that is the crux of the matter that a good proportion of the English population of London have issue with
    Are you saying you can't do any of these things?


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  • #211
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Johro wrote: »
    Are you saying you can't do any of these things?

    What I'm saying is that there is anecdotal evidence of people not being able to do those things in parts of London, hence the 'white flight'.

    Similarly, I wouldn't expect to be able to do those things in Karachi or Tel Aviv.


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