Is multiculturalism wanted??

SirTallaghtban

Einhard wrote: »

I don't agree with the concept of multiculturalism, as I stated in my initial post. Problem is, many people seem to think that multiculturalism is simpy another term for immigration, when it's a lot more complex than that.I'm also against mass immigration. However, I do see the positive affects of immigration, and being against unregulated immigration has never lead me to impugn the nationality of a person purely on the basis of their skin colour, as others are wont to do, and as you seemed to be flirting with earlier.Could you answer my question though- are my white, second generation cousins in the UK as British as their black, second generation peers?
All other things being equal of course.

Both are British. Both are whatever generation immigrants. Neither are native. One is also native to Europe, one is not.

Einhard

wendell borton wrote: »

Quite a few flag fetishist's up north would disagree with you on that.

Only is they were ignorant. It's pretty simple- Ireland was not a part of Great Britain. Simple. We were a part of the United Kingdowm of Great Britain and Ireland. If we had been part of GB, there would have been no need for a United Kingdom as there would have been nothing to unite.Seriously, admitting you're wrong isn't a sin.

Nodin

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Both are British. Both are whatever generation immigrants. Neither are native. One is also native to Europe, one is not.

And you have a problem with those whose ancestors are not "native to Europe"?

Einhard

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Both are British. Both are whatever generation immigrants. Neither are native. One is also native to Europe, one is not.

I'm glad to hear you say that. I thought you might have been impying that being a "native Briton" had something to do with skin colour. woodoo owes you an apology so.

looksee

DublinWriter wrote: »

You'll all be singing the praises of multi-culturalism when Omoni Maduike from Balbriggan hoists the Sam aloft for Dublin in his big sweaty black hands after hospitalising most of the Kerry team in the 2021 All-Ireland.

Considering the revelations about the Magdalene laundries, we don't even do mono-culturalism well in this country.

I think the reason multi-culturalism doesn't work in the UK, Germany and France is because they are all culturally-insular nations with very fixed notions of national identify based on hundreds of years of very bloody internecine European warfare.

We Irish, on the other hand, are a relatively young nation and are always up for a bit of "what ever you're having yourself".

I find it worrying that this might be your actual opinion, rather than an obscure attempt at humour.

Johro

It's a funny question really. Asking if multiculturalism is wanted is like asking if the weather is wanted. People of different nationalities will move to where they might find work. We can do this also. In fact many of us do. Problems only arise where there is no integration. Multiculturalism itself shouldn't be a problem to anyone.
Unless of course the question is rephrased as: ''I'm a closed minded xenophobe. Are you?''

Fox_In_Socks

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Both are British. Both are whatever generation immigrants. Neither are native. One is also native to Europe, one is not.

What about a British Jewish person, whose great grandparents came from Russia, Armenia, Germany, Britain and Egypt? One great grand parent came from Ethiopia.

SirTallaghtban

Nodin wrote: »

And you have a problem with those whose ancestors are not "native to Europe"?

On an individual level, no.

But as a collective, I think that we, in Europe, most certainly shall.

Large urban areas in Europe are becoming no go areas (tower hamlets, malmo, parts of brussels, paris etc. etc.) for the native populace.

And its only going to go one way.

woodoo

The main thrust of the article is about what happens when a city changes as much as london has in a short time. With the so called 'native' people becoming a minority. How do people feel about that?

The arguments on this thread are becoming to theoretical, we are all Africans etc if you go far enough back... What about the practicality of a changing city now in the 21st century. People do tend to gravitate towards people of their own culture, language skin colour etc. What happens when large blocks of culturally and racially different people share a city that was once a homogeneous white European one??

Nodin

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

On an individual level, no.

But as a collective, I think that we, in Europe, most certainly shall.

Large urban areas in Europe are becoming no go areas (tower hamlets, malmo, parts of brussels, paris etc. etc.) for the native populace.

And its only going to go one way.

.....O it's 'muslimsRcomin4us'. Sorry, thought it was race based.

SirTallaghtban

Nodin wrote: »

.....O it's 'muslimsRcomin4us'. Sorry, thought it was race based.

I never mentioned muslims, sunshine!

Einhard

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

On an individual level, no.

But as a collective, I think that we, in Europe, most certainly shall.

Large urban areas in Europe are becoming no go areas (tower hamlets, malmo, parts of brussels, paris etc. etc.) for the native populace.


And its only going to go one way.

No go areas only for those who can trace their ancestry exclusively back to the country they were born in? So white citizens of immigrant stock don't find them to be no go areas? I'm confused. Why would one white citizen find them dangerous, and another not?Unless...wait for it...you ARE equating "native" with skin colour! Oh, you sneaky pup you! And you nearly had me fooled! Well, not really.

Nodin

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

I never mentioned muslims, sunshine!

...well, you name checked the areas usually trotted out. Jaysus knows I've read the same crap so many times at this stage, I've almost got it off by heart.

philologos

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

On an individual level, no.

But as a collective, I think that we, in Europe, most certainly shall.

Large urban areas in Europe are becoming no go areas (tower hamlets, malmo, parts of brussels, paris etc. etc.) for the native populace.

And its only going to go one way.

I haven't had a great deal of trouble in Tower Hamlets. I have quite a few friends that live there and they get on fine.

I live in a white-minority area, it doesn't really affect my life all that much.

Einhard

woodoo wrote: »

What happens when large blocks of culturally and racially different people share a city that was once a homogeneous white European one??

The city becomes more interesting and enjoyable for all. Compare Dublin today Vs Dublin 30 years ago. The staid, boring Melbourne of 1950 with the vibrant Melbourne of today. The London of 1940 with the London of 2012.I'm sorry, but only incredibly boring, conservatve people graviate towards others based entirely on the colour of their skin, or their food choices.

PS: SirTallaghtBan...could you please just come out and admit that you think black people are less "native" than white people. We've know it all along. It's dripping from your posts. It'd be easier, and more honest, if you simply had the strength of your convictions and admitted to them.

Johro

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

On an individual level, no.

But as a collective, I think that we, in Europe, most certainly shall.

Large urban areas in Europe are becoming no go areas (tower hamlets, malmo, parts of brussels, paris etc. etc.) for the native populace.

And its only going to go one way.

It's funny when you think about the horrors visited upon Indians, Africans and South Americans by Europeans through the centuries.

philologos

woodoo wrote: »

The main thrust of the article is about what happens when a city changes as much as london has in a short time. With the so called 'native' people becoming a minority. How do people feel about that?

The arguments on this thread are becoming to theoretical, we are all Africans etc if you go far enough back... What about the practicality of a changing city now in the 21st century. People do tend to gravitate towards people of their own culture, language skin colour etc. What happens when large blocks of culturally and racially different people share a city that was once a homogeneous white European one??

I disagree with the notion that just because people are black that they can't share the same culture with those who are white.

I think a lot of Londoners for example irrespective of race are quite similar to one another culturally at least from second generation onwards.

squod

Einhard wrote: »

The city becomes more interesting and enjoyable for all. Compare Dublin today Vs Dublin 30 years ago.

I'm an old fart. Dublin 30 years ago was a hoot when I was young.

Fox_In_Socks

squod wrote: »

I'm an old fart. Dublin 30 years ago was a hoot when I was young.

Round inner muff, maybe...:pac:

sbdog

SirTallaghtban wrote: »

Native Britons are a minority in London. Could be Dublin in 20 odd years.

Would you be happy with becoming a minority in your own land?

agree with you 100%, i was born in westmeath but up to 2006 grew up in birmingham and i seen the country change dramaticly over 20 yrs, there were
area's in birmingham that was all irish, pubs, shops, catholic schools and housing, slowely the asians moved in took over all the shops and housing and drove everyone out, at 8pm every night they came out and put signs up saying NO WHITES AFTER 8 PM on the lamp posts and that went on for years and if you dared go into that area you were attacked, FACT. but of course the political correct brigade said not to respond, but i blame the shoppers who would go back into the shops the following day. after seeing the country be destroyed i came back home and live in the midlands and to my shock i could not believe how much ireland had changed but i am sorry to say ireland is going the same way as the uk because people are frightened to speak up as they will be called a racist. !!!!!! GOD HELP IRELAND

woodoo

Pretty much everyone on this thread bar one or two are full steam behind multiculturalism. Considering most of the people on this thread live in homogeneous little ole ireland its funny that they seem to be at odds with what most people on the BBC article are saying. The top comments seem to rue the day britain opened its doors to so many immigrants. They live it they must know something the idealists on here don't seem to grasp.

The King of Moo

sbdog wrote: »

agree with you 100%, i was born in westmeath but up to 2006 grew up in birmingham and i seen the country change dramaticly over 20 yrs, there were
area's in birmingham that was all irish, pubs, shops, catholic schools and housing, slowely the asians moved in took over all the shops and housing and drove everyone out, at 8pm every night they came out and put signs up saying NO WHITES AFTER 8 PM on the lamp posts and that went on for years and if you dared go into that area you were attacked, FACT. but of course the political correct brigade said not to respond, but i blame the shoppers who would go back into the shops the following day. after seeing the country be destroyed i came back home and live in the midlands and to my shock i could not believe how much ireland had changed but i am sorry to say ireland is going the same way as the uk because people are frightened to speak up as they will be called a racist. !!!!!! GOD HELP IRELAND

I don't believe this happened at all. It doesn't make any sense. Why would they be ok with white people before 8pm? What did they use to get up to after 8 that white people weren't allowed to see?
And how did they drive the Irish people away?

Nodin

woodoo wrote: »

Pretty much everyone on this thread bar one or two are full steam behind multiculturalism. Considering most of the people on this thread live in homogeneous little ole ireland its funny that they seem to be at odds with what most people on the BBC article are saying. The top comments seem to rue the day britain opened its doors to so many immigrants. They live it they must know something the idealists on here don't seem to grasp.

So because we disagree, we must be wrong....great logic there.

token101

Einhard wrote: »

Multiculturalism should never have been a policy in Europe. By multiculturalism, I mean the notion that every facet of every culture was to be respected, and that to call certain practices or belief into question was an inherently racist attitude. That kind of attitude has caused huge damage across the continent and, ironically, has hieghtened ethnic and racial tensions. I'm all for immigration. I like the diversity that immigration provides. However, I'm in favour of the melting pot where all cultures mix together as part of a broader society, not one where each culture forms its own segregated society. That's no fun. And it's pretty dangerous too. So multiculturalism, meh. Melting pot, yah!

But that sounds great in theory and works well when you have similar cultures and languages, not so good when you don't. There seems to be this idea in certain quarters that wanting people to adapt and assimilate is wrong and intolerant, which is bull**** really. People should be forced to learn the local language when they move to any country, it should be a built in part of any visa because it's just common sense and that goes for EU visas too. If they enforced a requirement that anyone migrating within the EU had to take a local language test before getting a working visa, I'd bet it would cut down tensions massively. How can you even attempt to fit in anywhere when you can't even communicate with people other than your own nationality? Ask people who work in the NHS in the UK, they'll tell you that there are 1000's of people who can't speak two words of English but they've been in the UK for years. That's wrong in so many ways and shouldn't be tolerated. It's all down to individuals, but expecting society to treat every single person as an individual and not broadly classify people in groups is a bit of a pipe dream really.

My name is URL wrote: »

Currently, the overly involved state places too much red-tape in the way of people to 'integrate' fully with overall populations.. it leads to ghettoization and once that mould is set it's almost impossible to break.

How does the state do that?

squod

Fox_In_Socks wrote: »

Round inner muff, maybe...:pac:

Getting inner muff, anyone's muff .

Einhard

sbdog wrote: »

agree with you 100%, i was born in westmeath but up to 2006 grew up in birmingham and i seen the country change dramaticly over 20 yrs, there were
area's in birmingham that was all irish, pubs, shops, catholic schools and housing,

mmmm, delicious irony...

woodoo wrote: »

Pretty much everyone on this thread bar one or two are full steam behind multiculturalism.

I'm pretty sure you don't understand what multiculturalism is. It's not simply immigration.

Considering most of the people on this thread live in homogeneous little ole
ireland its funny that they seem to be at odds with what most people on the BBC
article are saying.

Hmmm, so according to TallaghtBan, we're in danger of being overran by immigrants, yet by your count, we're all white and uniform...

Johro

woodoo wrote: »

Pretty much everyone on this thread bar one or two are full steam behind multiculturalism. Considering most of the people on this thread live in homogeneous little ole ireland its funny that they seem to be at odds with what most people on the BBC article are saying. The top comments seem to rue the day britain opened its doors to so many immigrants. They live it they must know something the idealists on here don't seem to grasp.

Yeah, the fact that we're in a recession and looking around for people to blame.

My name is URL

sbdog wrote: »

agree with you 100%, i was born in westmeath but up to 2006 grew up in birmingham and i seen the country change dramaticly over 20 yrs, there were
area's in birmingham that was all irish, pubs, shops, catholic schools and housing, slowely the asians moved in took over all the shops and housing and drove everyone out, at 8pm every night they came out and put signs up saying NO WHITES AFTER 8 PM on the lamp posts and that went on for years and if you dared go into that area you were attacked, FACT. but of course the political correct brigade said not to respond, but i blame the shoppers who would go back into the shops the following day. after seeing the country be destroyed i came back home and live in the midlands and to my shock i could not believe how much ireland had changed but i am sorry to say ireland is going the same way as the uk because people are frightened to speak up as they will be called a racist. !!!!!! GOD HELP IRELAND

I really hope that's satire.. but won't hold my breath!

looksee

sbdog wrote: »

agree with you 100%, i was born in westmeath but up to 2006 grew up in birmingham and i seen the country change dramaticly over 20 yrs, there were
area's in birmingham that was all irish, pubs, shops, catholic schools and housing, slowely the asians moved in took over all the shops and housing and drove everyone out, at 8pm every night they came out and put signs up saying NO WHITES AFTER 8 PM on the lamp posts and that went on for years and if you dared go into that area you were attacked, FACT. but of course the political correct brigade said not to respond, but i blame the shoppers who would go back into the shops the following day. after seeing the country be destroyed i came back home and live in the midlands and to my shock i could not believe how much ireland had changed but i am sorry to say ireland is going the same way as the uk because people are frightened to speak up as they will be called a racist. !!!!!! GOD HELP IRELAND

LOL, you couldn't make it up!

southsiderosie

woodoo wrote: »

The main thrust of the article is about what happens when a city changes as much as london has in a short time. With the so called 'native' people becoming a minority. How do people feel about that?

The arguments on this thread are becoming to theoretical, we are all Africans etc if you go far enough back... What about the practicality of a changing city now in the 21st century. People do tend to gravitate towards people of their own culture, language skin colour etc. What happens when large blocks of culturally and racially different people share a city that was once a homogeneous white European one??

They do what they have done in every other instance: fight over resources, complain about each other, and then move or settle down.

I wish Europeans would stop being so myopic here. The whole idea that we are in a situation where a white homogeneous Europe is being overrun by brown hordes overlooks the fact that until fairly recently, Europeans looked at each other as being ethnically and racially different. It would be odd today to think of Spain and Portugal as 'not European', but it wasn't too long ago that Northern Europeans used to sneer about Africa starting at the Pyrenees.

I also am always surprised when I hear Irish people making these kinds of comments - take a look at 19th century British census reports, and tell me that Britain has always been homogeneous. Or take a look at 19th century newspapers from New York and Boston - cities that were overwhelmingly white and settled by Europeans - and tell me about homogeneity.

People will always find something to fight about, whether it is race, religion, language, ethnicity, or class. Europe may be overwhelmingly racially white, but it has never been culturally, economically or ethnically homogeneous.