Garda Sergeant can't afford food

Ray Palmer · 15-02-2013 07:40PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It didn't exist until the start of the recession. And there's no point fighting it. We fought it's introduction, didn't get anywhere. It's not going anywhere, never will. As i said, right now, i would rather have that money than put it towards a pension. Also, people giving out about the pension, was it not common knowledge all along that the pension is what it is? If people are so jealous of it, they could have joined too. But they didn't. For one reason or another, most likely because they wouldn't be willing to do the work of AGS. Christ, knowing what i know now, i wouldn't have joined either.

My wife pays it too, it was not just you lot. It is paying for what you get. No not everybody can join a pension system like that.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I didn't get it either, until i saw it. Lots of members have the facility to pay bills through the credit union. This would leave them in a negative, and it would be covered in the "big" cheque. Don't know how long one can get away with it, but it does happen.

That is totally different thing. A negative pay slip due to debits is not minus pay.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Do bouncers, or bar/waiting staff go to domestics? Do they have to tell parents/siblings that a member of their family is dead? Do they have to attend scenes of fatal traffic accidents/assaults? Do they have to check the pulse of a dead 6 month old? Do they get constant abuse for doing their job? Do they have to, while someone is dieing, have the right frame of mind to get a legally binding dieing declaration from someone in their last moments of life? Do they think that everytime they go to work, that it might be their last?

I said somethings not everything. Not saying the job is easy just not as unique as is said.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

There are more than enough experiences that AGS deal in their daily life than any other profession. There was a good article written by a policeman, in which he basically describes the expectations of the public regarding police. He stated that we are expected to be everything, phychiatrist, doctor, lawyer, mediator, etc.

Again not unique working in a bank can be very similar in those. Try working in social welfare for some crazy situations you need to deal with

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I am quite aware of that, and i don't really think i'd attempt to become a policeman anywhere else. I was just saying how i feel, and what i believe might be my only option should any more cuts come in.

You said you would leave the public to pay your debit, just pointing out that is not really possible.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And why shouldn't AGS have received a pay increase in line with the private sector? Most other sectors at the time got one, why not us? We have received increments in line with everyone else. The wage, and it's allowences, were agreed to at the time to be in line with the type of job we're doing. And when others got pay increases, we were told no, but managed to get allowences on other parts of our job instead. Now, those allowences are been taxed to high heaven, and we still get the same tax cuts as everyone else. Double taxed. And yes, i did borrow according to my wages, who doesn't? No one could have expected the cuts and taxes that came, not unless you're an economist or have an interest in the area (not many do, i reckon).

Because the government had to pay the money on an ongoing basis, you now get they couldn't and can't. There was a lot of people pointing this out and it was ignored and blue flu treats. No reason to pay you more the job didn't change or generate money. If you didn't know this was going to happen you would have to have had no memory or looked into the history of the job. Tax has not really changed that much and now you pay for the pension I can't afford in the public sector

Potential-Monke wrote: »

As i said previously, unless you do the job, you really don't know what it's like. Prior to joining, i knew nothing about the job, other than catching criminals. That is maybe 20% of the job, if even.

Maybe you should have looked into it. I have a fair idea as friends and family that are in the force here and abroad. Your choice but what has that got to do with me?

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Now, when the government is picking on an easy target that they believe cannot stand up for themselves (it's written into legislation that we can't strike, unlike every other sector). We we've had enough. We've done our bit, our job is getting harder and more dangerous (we don't get danger pay), our numbers are being decimated, our equipment is not up to standard, our transport is pathetic, and our leader is in the pocket of the prick that is doing all this. We've never had a voice, the GRA rarely tell it like it actually is, and play the political game like everyone else. We're not allowed to discuss most aspects of our job due to the complications of the Garda Code and the Official Secrets Act. We can't actually say how many (read: little) Gardai are in each area at any given time due to the increase in crime in that area those figures would bring. We are a muted voice, and one which a hell of a lot of people don't care to hear, or don't understand.

They are picking on all public servants as that is the wage bill they pay. You can't strike for public safety and it is not unique to Ireland.
Suggesting nobody else understand your job yet you are oblivious to others given what you are saying here.

I am sorry but it is really your own fault and you don't have a grasp on basics economics

tayto lover · 15-02-2013 07:51PM

I really hope the Garda, nurses, firemen, teachers, prison officers etc go on some kind of strike. This sham of a dictatorship needs to be brought down and we need to re-build the country from scratch in a fairer way than it is being run now.

greenoverred · 15-02-2013 08:30PM

Boombastic wrote: »

If he cut out the private schooling he would have €24,000 more disposable income/year, that's €2,000/month and he wants more.... It's up to him how he spends it but if he has €24,000 / year to spend on school while starving, he is spending it foolishly.

Hes not spending it foolishly. This man is a genius. Anyone who can afford €24,000 schooling and €30,000 mortgage along with all other day to day expenses out of a take home pay of €34,000 is a miracle worker. Jesus christ himself even with the loaves and fishes trick would struggle to manage this.

Oh wait, maybe the story is bulsh1t. Nevermind that. Its a great excuse to have a cut at someone

Bench Press · 15-02-2013 08:30PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I really hope the Garda, nurses, firemen, teachers, prison officers etc go on some kind of strike. This sham of a dictatorship needs to be brought down and we need to re-build the country from scratch in a fairer way than it is being run now.

Nurses, Firemen and Guards are keeping this country going, those Fine Gael morons running the country don't give a **** as long as they get their fat dail paycheque every month

tayto lover · 15-02-2013 09:24PM

Bench Press wrote: »

Nurses, Firemen and Guards are keeping this country going, those Fine Gael morons running the country don't give a **** as long as they get their fat dail paycheque every month

I laughed when I heard the Garda Commissioner and Shatter on the Six O'clock News stating that it was up to the garda to do the right thing and accept their conditions.
The Commissioner is a Govt puppet appointed by them and Shatter seems to be a Garda hater and a wind-up merchant.
If they cut their wages then they are breaking the conditions and the Garda should strike en mass. A week out would make them re-think. Same for the nurses and firemen. They shouldn't give an inch. I just heard that the people at the top of the Public Sector like the Commissioner is exempt any cuts too so far. These boys have brass necks.

pragmatic1 · 15-02-2013 11:31PM

greenoverred wrote: »

True. But I have to live somewhere. Seen as Im not entitled to any rental supplement the only other option I have would be to pay rent. Either way its going to cost me. Believe it or not its not some kind of mad extravagance for someone to be paying a mortgage.

It is for myself and many more like me in the private sector.

greenoverred · 15-02-2013 11:39PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

It is for myself and many more like me in the private sector.

Are you for real. You and many more like you in the private sector. Tell me about you and many more like you in the private sector. Believe it or not I know plenty of people in the private sector and they are paying a mortgage or paying high rent and believe it or not they don't consider the cost of the roof over their head a mad extravagance

road_high · 15-02-2013 11:39PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I really hope the Garda, nurses, firemen, teachers, prison officers etc go on some kind of strike. This sham of a dictatorship needs to be brought down and we need to re-build the country from scratch in a fairer way than it is being run now.

I hope they do too. But for the exact opposite reasons. It will prove once and for all how far removed they actually are from the realities of the current economic situation as they will see pretty much zero support in the current for any sort of strike.
I'll be highly surprised if they do though. Can't see them biting the hand that (handsomely) feeds them all. The Unions striking to maintain their over inflated wages is hardly some path to a new government order.

road_high · 15-02-2013 11:42PM

Bench Press wrote: »

Nurses, Firemen and Guards are keeping this country going, those Fine Gael morons running the country don't give a **** as long as they get their fat dail paycheque every month

Unless they are all working in top secret jobs producing things for export I can assure they are most certainly not "keeping the country going" and producing the wealth to pay theur wages...

pragmatic1 · 15-02-2013 11:50PM

greenoverred wrote: »

Are you for real. You and many more like you in the private sector. Tell me about you and many more like you in the private sector. Believe it or not I know plenty of people in the private sector and they are paying a mortgage or paying high rent and believe it or not they don't consider the cost of the roof over their head a mad extravagance

Yes I'm for real and I'm not talking about low skilled jobs either. If you think a few pay cuts and contributing to your own pension is tough going, you're in for a shock in the future.

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 12:01AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Yes I'm for real and I'm not talking about low skilled jobs either. If you think a few pay cuts and contributing to your own pension is tough going, you're in for a shock in the future.

Ok, You got me. Im lost. You were saying having a mortgage for you and many more like you in the private sector is a mad extravagance. Is this idea of having a mortgage only a public sector phenomenon. Really I am intrigued by this. How do you and more like you pay for accommodation.

ethical · 16-02-2013 12:09AM

This country is so fcuked up its unbelievable.I happen to live in the Taoiseach's own constituency and while my wife and I go out to work every morning we find that we have less and less disposable money come the end of the month.The debit side of the wage slip is nearing the bottom of the column now with all the deductions! One problem I have is the following: we had 150,000 people out of work in this country during the Celtic Tiger and Mary Harney went to Eastern Europe to recruit workers because.....we did not have any at home!!!.The 150,000 were untouchable and still are.Let me explain! I live in a private estate.The builder (now gone!) kept some of the best houses in the estate for his cronies who are now private landlords and have destroyed local communities by letting to the dreaded housing benefit dregs of society (some of the 150,000) who would never work a day in their lives )when a fool like me pays my taxes to keep them in the lifestyle they have been accustomed to).I pass by them in the mornings on the way to work and wonder sometimes why I bother.Some of the private landlords are ill equipped to deal with lettings and the problems that are caused by their no good for nothing tenants.We set up a residents association about 6 years ago and thankfully have cleaned up our estate,we had to be blunt with some landlords and make no apology for this.For example if I am awakened at 4.00 in the morning by unsociable behaviour isn't it only fair that the landlord is also awakened.We recently had a tenant who lived in our area about 10 years ago move back but changed his mind when he heard we had an active residents association!!! When he lived here before he got up to all sorts!!! Gardaí are absolutely brilliant if you work with them and our community garda is the best.Its sad that we have allowed the Anglo gamblers to have their bets all sorted by the government.We need a proper downing of tools,like the Greeks but only in a peaceful manner to get our message through.We have been saddled with billions of debt but yet some people are escaping and get everything paid for. There is no will to fight any longer it would seem.Cronyism has destroyed this once proud country and Enda is one lucky general,more of a celeb than a roll up your sleeves type who should tell Angele where to go!

pragmatic1 · 16-02-2013 12:09AM

greenoverred wrote: »

Ok, You got me. Im lost. You were saying having a mortgage for you and many more like you in the private sector is a mad extravagance. Is this idea of having a mortgage only a public sector phenomenon. Really I am intrigued by this. How do you and more like you pay for accommodation.

Personally, I rent a room in a house share. I know a fair few people that have had to move back into their parents houses. I know more still that have had to emigrate due to the economy. That's what happens in a recession.

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 12:32AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Personally, I rent a room in a house share. I know a fair few people that have had to move back into their parents houses. I know more still that have had to emigrate due to the economy. That's what happens in a recession.

You see the problem is that even if I moved into a house share or in with my parents or emigrate the mortgage wont disappear. It still has to be paid. Now going back to your statement about it been a mad extravagance. My mortgage like most mortgages in this country were granted before the recession. They were not considered a mad extravagance at this time. I needed to live somewhere so it was either pay rent or get a mortgage. Sure I could have stayed living with my parents and travelled 170 miles to work everyday to avoid paying rent or a mortgage but I have a feeling the motoring costs would have offset the savings. I also think the mammy would have called a halt to it at some stage.

16-02-2013 12:58AM

greenoverred wrote: »

You see the problem is that even if I moved into a house share or in with my parents or emigrate the mortgage wont disappear. It still has to be paid. Now going back to your statement about it been a mad extravagance. My mortgage like most mortgages in this country were granted before the recession. They were not considered a mad extravagance at this time. I needed to live somewhere so it was either pay rent or get a mortgage. Sure I could have stayed living with my parents and travelled 170 miles to work everyday to avoid paying rent or a mortgage but I have a feeling the motoring costs would have offset the savings. I also think the mammy would have called a halt to it at some stage.

You made the choice to take out a mortgage. A lot of us didn't. I spent five years renting in Dublin because I knew I was in no financial position to take out a mortgage. I personally would have considered it a great extravagance at the time. Trying to insinuate that it was either buying or staying at home with Mammy is ridiculous. Why didn't you just rent, like a lot of us did? You might have laughed in my face at the time, like a lot of people did and told me I was 'throwing money away', but I'm now in a position where I have no debts and can live wherever I like.

pragmatic1 · 16-02-2013 01:16AM

greenoverred wrote: »

You see the problem is that even if I moved into a house share or in with my parents or emigrate the mortgage wont disappear. It still has to be paid. Now going back to your statement about it been a mad extravagance. My mortgage like most mortgages in this country were granted before the recession. They were not considered a mad extravagance at this time. I needed to live somewhere so it was either pay rent or get a mortgage. Sure I could have stayed living with my parents and travelled 170 miles to work everyday to avoid paying rent or a mortgage but I have a feeling the motoring costs would have offset the savings. I also think the mammy would have called a halt to it at some stage.

So you got a mortgage before the recession and you're finding tough in these economic times? Myself and many other young professionals like me can't afford to take out a mortgage now, at a time when the property market is at rock bottom. There's a reason why tens of thousands emigrate from Ireland every year.

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 07:21AM

Theo Shapely Thanksgiving wrote: »

You made the choice to take out a mortgage. A lot of us didn't. I spent five years renting in Dublin because I knew I was in no financial position to take out a mortgage. I personally would have considered it a great extravagance at the time. Trying to insinuate that it was either buying or staying at home with Mammy is ridiculous. Why didn't you just rent, like a lot of us did? You might have laughed in my face at the time, like a lot of people did and told me I was 'throwing money away', but I'm now in a position where I have no debts and can live wherever I like.

Some times I wonder do lads read the thread at all before going of on one.

Like you I rented for five years in Dublin. More actually but thats not the point. This rent cost me money. It still would if I didnt buy. If you read my most you would see I used rent as an option and did not insinuate it was either buying or staying at home with Mammy . What I said was it was either buying or renting and that staying at home with Mammy was not an option for me. So accommodation is an expense which comes out of my weekly salary and whether I rent or pay a mortgage it is not a mad extravagance.

I wouldnt have laughed in your face. As I said I rented for long enough myself and did not buy a house until I was in a finacial position to do so but its obvious from your post someone did. This is probably at leas 5 years ago since this happened so get over it and get on with your life. So you didnt buy and the cards fell nicely for you but you still are paying rent and its an expense regardless

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 08:51AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

So you got a mortgage before the recession and you're finding tough in these economic times? Myself and many other young professionals like me can't afford to take out a mortgage now, at a time when the property market is at rock bottom. There's a reason why tens of thousands emigrate from Ireland every year.

Ahh Yes that's right I took out a mortgage before the recession and I'm finding it tough in these economic times. Is this a shock to you. I'm still able to pay the mortgage but its getting close to tipping point. I get the impression from your posts that you think anyone with a mortgage spent the boom times sipping champagne and going around laughing at everyone else. This pays for the roof over my head. What in your opinion is the end game. Do you keep cutting wages until we have everyone in a position that they can no longer pay a mortgage. That'll show them for getting above their station. How dare they even dream of owning a house.

You say young professionals like yourself can't afford to take out a mortgage now even at rock bottom prices. Obviously I can't dispute this point because I don't know what you earn but going back to my original point AGAIN you still have to pay rent and this is an expense coming out of your take home pay.

Look I'm not sorry I bought a house. I have to live somewhere. For you to tell me it's a mad extravagance is just ridiculous and the fact that I can currently afford the mortgage is not a reason why my pay should be cut

suicide_circus · 16-02-2013 09:51AM

Rent is dead money, lads. I just flipped my third one bed shoebox in Bettystown and now i'm off to Abu Dhabi.

Dejvice · 16-02-2013 10:50AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Rent is dead money, lads. I just flipped my third one bed shoebox in Bettystown and now i'm off to Abu Dhabi.

1 BR shoebox? 55,000 EUR (if that) is peanuts. But good luck to you if you consider it a load of cash.

16-02-2013 10:57AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

If people are so jealous of it, they could have joined too. But they didn't.
...

And why shouldn't AGS have received a pay increase in line with the private sector? Most other sectors at the time got one, why not us?

Same answer to you: if you wanted private sector increases, you could have joined it

Not to mention the state is broke - when that happens in the private sector, you get sacked. In the public, I suppose you just ask for more

16-02-2013 10:59AM

greenoverred wrote: »

Some times I wonder do lads read the thread at all before going of on one.

Like you I rented for five years in Dublin. More actually but thats not the point. This rent cost me money. It still would if I didnt buy. If you read my most you would see I used rent as an option and did not insinuate it was either buying or staying at home with Mammy . What I said was it was either buying or renting and that staying at home with Mammy was not an option for me. So accommodation is an expense which comes out of my weekly salary and whether I rent or pay a mortgage it is not a mad extravagance.

I wouldnt have laughed in your face. As I said I rented for long enough myself and did not buy a house until I was in a finacial position to do so but its obvious from your post someone did. This is probably at leas 5 years ago since this happened so get over it and get on with your life. So you didnt buy and the cards fell nicely for you but you still are paying rent and its an expense regardless

I did read the thread properly. So what if staying at home with Mammy wasn't an option? It isn't an option for most adults. So the choice is rent or buy. I'm getting the distinct impression that you think renting is throwing money away.

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 11:12AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Rent is dead money, lads. I just flipped my third one bed shoebox in Bettystown and now i'm off to Abu Dhabi.

I don't know who that comment is aimed at. I definitely never said rent was dead money. It's still a cost of living thou. So whether I decide to rent or pay a mortgage it's still money out of my wages.

Lads ye are going totally of topic here. I'm not trying to tell anyone they should have bought a house instead of keep on renting. That was up to each individual to decide themselves. Ive already made my point about a €250 weekly mortgage not been mad extravagance. Ignore what im saying if you want. The decision to buy has worked for some and not worked for others. Don't forget thou that the show box in bettystown is going to cost you up on €600 to rent whereas if you could get a mortgage to buy it the mortgage would be €400.

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 11:14AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Same answer to you: if you wanted private sector increases, you could have joined it

Not to mention the state is broke - when that happens in the private sector, you get sacked. In the public, I suppose you just ask for more

Nobody here asking for more.

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 11:20AM

Theo Shapely Thanksgiving wrote: »

I did read the thread properly. So what if staying at home with Mammy wasn't an option? It isn't an option for most adults. So the choice is rent or buy. I'm getting the distinct impression that you think renting is throwing money away.

Exactly rent or buy. Just like I said. At least now you are reading the posts. I'm not saying rent is dead money but its still money that has to be paid out.

16-02-2013 11:21AM

greenoverred wrote: »

Nobody here asking for more.

The quote clearly has him saying "why can't we have increases too", so yes, they are.

16-02-2013 11:30AM

greenoverred wrote: »

Exactly rent or buy. Just like I said. At least now you are reading the posts. I'm not saying rent is dead money but its still money that has to be paid out.

Why even bring Mammy into it was my point. Mammy has nothing to do with your personal financial choices.

Rent is money that has to be paid out, but the big bonus is that there's no attachment whatsoever. If it's getting too expensive, you can move out. If a scumbag family move in next door, you can move out. If you want to emigrate, you can just leave. All that is a lot more difficult with a mortgage, especially one you're struggling to pay.

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 11:31AM

bluewolf wrote: »

The quote clearly has him saying "why can't we have increases too", so yes, they are.

No it doesn't. Why are you misquoting him.

Grayson · 16-02-2013 11:34AM

greenoverred wrote: »

Ahh Yes that's right I took out a mortgage before the recession and I'm finding it tough in these economic times. Is this a shock to you. I'm still able to pay the mortgage but its getting close to tipping point. I get the impression from your posts that you think anyone with a mortgage spent the boom times sipping champagne and going around laughing at everyone else. This pays for the roof over my head. What in your opinion is the end game. Do you keep cutting wages until we have everyone in a position that they can no longer pay a mortgage. That'll show them for getting above their station. How dare they even dream of owning a house.

I don't think anyone thinks that. But we do think that a mortgage for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF EURO's for a cardboard celtic tiger house was a bit extravagant. And we'd think that we'd be a bit more cautious before shackling ourselves with what could be a crippling debt for the rest of our lives.

greenoverred wrote: »

You say young professionals like yourself can't afford to take out a mortgage now even at rock bottom prices. Obviously I can't dispute this point because I don't know what you earn but going back to my original point AGAIN you still have to pay rent and this is an expense coming out of your take home pay.

Look I'm not sorry I bought a house. I have to live somewhere. For you to tell me it's a mad extravagance is just ridiculous and the fact that I can currently afford the mortgage is not a reason why my pay should be cut

The old, renting is wasted money.
But here's the difference. I can move house. I can move somewhere cheaper. I can move somewhere better. And I'm not shackled to a crippling debt.

As far as I'm concerned, the only time that a person should consider buying is if they
a) are married and/or have kids AND are planning on staying in that location for at least 30 years. A single person buying property is silly. And the only reason I'd recommend it for married people is because they are generally more stable and do tend to stay in the same location. Single people move more, plus if they get married, they may end up moving anyway. I know couples who each bought apartments during the boom. crappy little one bed things. they can't rent them for enough to cover the mortgage and now that they're settling down they need somewhere bigger. they're both stuck with somewhere they have to keep paying for and can't sell.

b) it should be well within their ability to pay. Far too many people bought in the celtic tiger on the assumption that the price of the house would increase and so would their wages. For some reason people just refused to believe that property prices could ever fall. All the evidence was there. maybe not enough to state it would happen, but enough to state that it could happen. (Personally i always thought something would happen. A house that cost £30,000 when I was 18 was going for €350,000 when i was 30. That was a 1000% increase. How anyone thought that was sustainable is beyond me).

Now, do I feel sorry for the people who are finding it hard? Yes, but only for the ones with kids. And I still think it's their fault. The government can help with restructuring the debt, but nobody who bought property should get a single penny in assistance. It's their debt, they signed up to it.

greenoverred · 16-02-2013 12:02PM

Grayson wrote: »

I don't think anyone thinks that. But we do think that a mortgage for HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF EURO's for a cardboard celtic tiger house was a bit extravagant. And we'd think that we'd be a bit more cautious before shackling ourselves with what could be a crippling debt for the rest of our lives.

The old, renting is wasted money.
But here's the difference. I can move house. I can move somewhere cheaper. I can move somewhere better. And I'm not shackled to a crippling debt.

As far as I'm concerned, the only time that a person should consider buying is if they
a) are married and/or have kids AND are planning on staying in that location for at least 30 years. A single person buying property is silly. And the only reason I'd recommend it for married people is because they are generally more stable and do tend to stay in the same location. Single people move more, plus if they get married, they may end up moving anyway. I know couples who each bought apartments during the boom. crappy little one bed things. they can't rent them for enough to cover the mortgage and now that they're settling down they need somewhere bigger. they're both stuck with somewhere they have to keep paying for and can't sell.

b) it should be well within their ability to pay. Far too many people bought in the celtic tiger on the assumption that the price of the house would increase and so would their wages. For some reason people just refused to believe that property prices could ever fall. All the evidence was there. maybe not enough to state it would happen, but enough to state that it could happen. (Personally i always thought something would happen. A house that cost £30,000 when I was 18 was going for €350,000 when i was 30. That was a 1000% increase. How anyone thought that was sustainable is beyond me).

Now, do I feel sorry for the people who are finding it hard? Yes, but only for the ones with kids. And I still think it's their fault. The government can help with restructuring the debt, but nobody who bought property should get a single penny in assistance. It's their debt, they signed up to it.

I can't make it any clearer that I do not think rent is wasted money. No doubt there are numerous advantages to renting before paying a mortgage many of which you have highlighted. The point I am making is that whether you want to consider it wasted or not just like a mortgage rent costs money. This is money which comes out of my pay package. Earlier I posted my salary details and a rough guide to weekly expenses.I know loads of people who are renting so if you want I can replace the mortgage cost with a rental cost. It ain't gonna make a huge difference

It looks like some posters are just trying to bring this topic around to how smart they were about not buying property. That's a different debate and one that I'm not willing to take up with you. I'm delighted it worked out for you. I wouldn't consider my debt crippling at the moment but anymore pay cuts and this situation changes.

Garda Sergeant can't afford food

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