Garda Sergeant can't afford food

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Then the same people come back to the area they're barred from, get re-arrested, and the same outcome instead of what is supposed to happen. It's a vicious circle, where the defendant gets umpteen chances, with no end to those chances. It's more the "proper" criminals who get easy sentences who piss us off. You spend loads of time gathering evidence, arresting, interviewing, followed by a file which will never be perfect (we nearly need a degree in file preperation these days), summons, court. The defendant could have 36 previous convictions for burglary, and you catch them coming out of a house with valuables, and the court gives them a suspended sentence! You lose heart in the system.

I agree with you.I mean the loopholes that people get off on in relation to offences are beyond belief.I mean look at this chancer.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/detective-garda-cleared-on-technicality-of-dangerous-driving-29066308.html

greenoverred wrote: »

Public Sector Pension Levy and other pension reductions

you seem to be confusing paying for your pension and paying tax.They are not the same thing.

jonsnow wrote: »

you seem to be confusing paying for your pension and paying tax.They are not the same thing.

Im not confusing anything. I never said it was a tax. Its a mandatory reduction. I have no choice whether I want to pay it or not.

greenoverred wrote: »

Im not confusing anything. I never said it was a tax. Its a mandatory reduction. I have no choice whether I want to pay it or not.

So you,lld rather not pay towards your garda pension and just take the money into your hand?

jonsnow wrote: »

So you,lld rather not pay towards your garda pension and just take the money into your hand?

As the others have said, it's mandatory, so there is no choice. But, if there was a choice, right now i'd take the cash. Can always go back paying when/if things get better. But the choice is made for us.

jonsnow wrote: »

the point I,m making is that gardai are moaning as if pension contributions have disappeared into ball of smoke when in fact you will see all that money again plus massive interest when you retire.A goldplated pension which you only contribute a minute fraction towards that could not be bought on the open market is what you are complaining about.

Why dont ye get the GRA to approach the govt with an offer to scrap the garda pensions and let the gardai purchase their pensions on the open market or hold onto the cash.I,m sure the govt would be receptive to such an overture.

Where has anyone said pension contributions have disappeared into a ball of smoke. Where have I moaned about the pension contributions. I just outlined where a salary of €45,000 plus premium payments goes. You are going totally of topic with your rant about the benefit's of the pension. But while you are on the topic what is this minute fraction that you think I contribute and how much do you think I should contribute to this "gold plated pension".

jonsnow wrote: »

the point I,m making is that gardai are moaning as if pension contributions have disappeared into ball of smoke when in fact you will see all that money again plus massive interest when you retire.A goldplated pension which you only contribute a minute fraction towards that could not be bought on the open market is what you are complaining about.

Not much point having a gold plated pension 20 years down the road if you can't afford to keep a roof over your head and make ends meet today.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Some good points there PM.

Income Continuance Insurance,for example,would be extremely difficult for a serving Garda to accquire outside of the forces own arrangements.

The Working Time Directive is also a nasty piece of (anti) work,as it appears to be almost universally enforced within the Public Sector,whilst being somewhat quizically looked at outside in the real world.

Effectively the WTD has become an Upper Limit on earnings for all "employed" persons....luckily it does not have a bearing upon the Company Director or the self-employed.

It is difficult to comprehend a country in such dire need of productive workers,putting so much effort into preventing such workers from working....Crazy Stuff,but hey it's the EU's fault.

You can also throw in that the WTD is enforced on members who have second jobs, yet when it comes to court attendance it's thrown out the window and a "compensation" is made. Not much good when you've worked 10 hours, got 2 hours sleep, in court for up to 8 hours, and back for another 10 hour night shift 3 hours after the end of court.

Deleted User wrote: »

That said, I don't think there's any reason for a Garda to be starving barring pretty awful personal financial management.

I have a suspicion the original "No food on the table" story skirted round the Credit Union scenario,which could explain the Utility Deductions from salary via a Budget Plan.

I understand that there were,for some years past,certain reservations being expressed by some people connected with the Garda Credit Unions at the level of credit being offered to/availed of by young recently attested members.

It seems a voluntary code of conduct,by which the Garda Credit Unions did not loan funds to non-attested members,was allowed to slip into disuse during the boom years,which allowed some young Gardai to get in a little deeper than was prudent.

It's quite speculative however,as the GCU's,understandably don't want their linen washed in public ?

The situation in 2009 was already looking somewhat difficult.....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-credit-union-owed-nearly-1m-by-defaulters-26565801.html

...Have things improved I wonder ?

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's not far off it. And by taxes i'm including PAYE, PRSI, USC, and 3 pension levies that we pay. The only luxury i have is the internet, and that is my main (and nearly only) source of entertainment, so i won't be getting rid of that. I will admit that i got more in loans than i needed to back through the years, but always within my budget.

A building site is dangerous, but with proper precautions, the majority of accidents can be avoided. Yes, there will be some un-expected accidents, but no where near as many in AGS. You never know what the next call will bring, and planning ahead and having proper equipment is only half of it.

You get paid when injured, but depending on the nature of the injury, you could be out for a good while, and after a certain amount of time, your wages get cut in half. That's where the income protection comes in. Necessary security, because the Chief Medical Officer won't let you back to work until you're 100% (to avoid legal cases down the line).

They're already reducing the force, and it's already below a dangerous level (burglaries have increased). Any more, and no one will be getting an immediate service because there won't be anyone to respond (especially outside Dublin City).

And a cut in wages, as i have described above, will bring me into negative earnings (yes, it's possible to have a minus on the payslip). And there is nothing i can do to sort it. EBS won't lower the mortgage, already have a credit agreement with the Credit Union so can't lower that any more. Can't get a second job as i don't have a trade, and no one will take a part time worker who can only work 3 weekends out of 10, plus we can't let a second job affect the Working Time Directive (ie: minimum rest periods) so there really is nothing more that i can do.

My only option, should wages be cut, is getting the hell out of the country and leaving all my debt behind for the taxpayer to foot. Which i don't want to do. I got the loans, i got the mortgage, i want to pay them back, but if it comes to a case of my mental health against debt, well it's obvious what the decision will be.

Yeap you are wrong. Pension levy is not tax it is you paying for your rather good pension. So it is mandatory why not challenge that instead of anything else. I don't get how you can have a negative pay slip. They are percentage based deductions as far as I know.
There are a few things Garda seem to think are unique to their work that aren't Working in a pub as a bouncer expereince similar violence as can just general bar satff and fast food workers.
You know your debts don't actually go away if you leave the country? They can easily follow you with interest. If you are going to another police force won't they check your back ground out?
I really don't understand why anybody in the force or when joining the force thought that there would not be pay cuts. All through time the same dispute pops up. Asking for unsustainable pay increase was really the cause but was insisted on to match private pay. It is slightly offensive to the public who pointed this out at the time but apparently they were leaving in droves if it didn't happen. Low and behold it meant people like yourself borrowed on that salary and are now in big trouble. I do feel sorry for you but it is more your fault than mine.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Yeap you are wrong. Pension levy is not tax it is you paying for your rather good pension. So it is mandatory why not challenge that instead of anything else.

It didn't exist until the start of the recession. And there's no point fighting it. We fought it's introduction, didn't get anywhere. It's not going anywhere, never will. As i said, right now, i would rather have that money than put it towards a pension. Also, people giving out about the pension, was it not common knowledge all along that the pension is what it is? If people are so jealous of it, they could have joined too. But they didn't. For one reason or another, most likely because they wouldn't be willing to do the work of AGS. Christ, knowing what i know now, i wouldn't have joined either.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I don't get how you can have a negative pay slip. They are percentage based deductions as far as I know.

I didn't get it either, until i saw it. Lots of members have the facility to pay bills through the credit union. This would leave them in a negative, and it would be covered in the "big" cheque. Don't know how long one can get away with it, but it does happen.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There are a few things Garda seem to think are unique to their work that aren't Working in a pub as a bouncer expereince similar violence as can just general bar satff and fast food workers.

Do bouncers, or bar/waiting staff go to domestics? Do they have to tell parents/siblings that a member of their family is dead? Do they have to attend scenes of fatal traffic accidents/assaults? Do they have to check the pulse of a dead 6 month old? Do they get constant abuse for doing their job? Do they have to, while someone is dieing, have the right frame of mind to get a legally binding dieing declaration from someone in their last moments of life? Do they think that everytime they go to work, that it might be their last?

There are more than enough experiences that AGS deal in their daily life than any other profession. There was a good article written by a policeman, in which he basically describes the expectations of the public regarding police. He stated that we are expected to be everything, phychiatrist, doctor, lawyer, mediator, etc.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You know your debts don't actually go away if you leave the country? They can easily follow you with interest. If you are going to another police force won't they check your back ground out?

I am quite aware of that, and i don't really think i'd attempt to become a policeman anywhere else. I was just saying how i feel, and what i believe might be my only option should any more cuts come in.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I really don't understand why anybody in the force or when joining the force thought that there would not be pay cuts. All through time the same dispute pops up. Asking for unsustainable pay increase was really the cause but was insisted on to match private pay. It is slightly offensive to the public who pointed this out at the time but apparently they were leaving in droves if it didn't happen. Low and behold it meant people like yourself borrowed on that salary and are now in big trouble. I do feel sorry for you but it is more your fault than mine.

And why shouldn't AGS have received a pay increase in line with the private sector? Most other sectors at the time got one, why not us? We have received increments in line with everyone else. The wage, and it's allowences, were agreed to at the time to be in line with the type of job we're doing. And when others got pay increases, we were told no, but managed to get allowences on other parts of our job instead. Now, those allowences are been taxed to high heaven, and we still get the same tax cuts as everyone else. Double taxed. And yes, i did borrow according to my wages, who doesn't? No one could have expected the cuts and taxes that came, not unless you're an economist or have an interest in the area (not many do, i reckon).

As i said previously, unless you do the job, you really don't know what it's like. Prior to joining, i knew nothing about the job, other than catching criminals. That is maybe 20% of the job, if even.

Now, when the government is picking on an easy target that they believe cannot stand up for themselves (it's written into legislation that we can't strike, unlike every other sector). We we've had enough. We've done our bit, our job is getting harder and more dangerous (we don't get danger pay), our numbers are being decimated, our equipment is not up to standard, our transport is pathetic, and our leader is in the pocket of the prick that is doing all this. We've never had a voice, the GRA rarely tell it like it actually is, and play the political game like everyone else. We're not allowed to discuss most aspects of our job due to the complications of the Garda Code and the Official Secrets Act. We can't actually say how many (read: little) Gardai are in each area at any given time due to the increase in crime in that area those figures would bring. We are a muted voice, and one which a hell of a lot of people don't care to hear, or don't understand.

TL;DR: We've had enough.