Garda Sergeant can't afford food

K-9 · 14-02-2013 12:44AM

HondaSami wrote: »

What do you mean? That's for two kids, how much should it be in your opinion?

The state already subsidises private education, if he can't afford it he should change the schools, it isn't a reason against a pay cut.

woodoo · 14-02-2013 12:47AM

So this guy can't afford food but can afford private heath insurance and private education?

If thats the case he can afford food he just chooses to spend his money elsewhere.

collegeme · 14-02-2013 12:50AM

AK333 wrote: »

10 euro in an oil envelope
15 in house insurance envelope
10 in car insurance envelope
15 in phone/internet envelope
10 in electricity envelope
10 in car tax envelope
15 for coal etc each week

then I pay for food - approx 60

so far I'm up to 145

then 40 to credit union
and petrol and child school costs and party presents etc etc

DO NOT be looking for sympathy for someone on 57k per year and start sprouting overtime/additional benefits

I live on less than 10k with a child as do lots of other people.

If you don't like you job, change it - in other words put up or shut up. Guards knew what their job description was, don't start moaning about dealing with scum/criminals. Hello, that's what you are paid the big bucks for.

Im not far off what you earn and i have 2kids but your attitude stinks. You have a grudge based on what yoyr situation is. You earn 10k and mainly take home most of that. This guatd earns 57k but probably only takes home just under 30k including ot etc.
Oh anfd you say"if you dont like your job change it" sure one could say to you if your not happy wirh your pay...get a better paying job?? See its not that simple is it?

AK333 · 14-02-2013 12:56AM

collegeme wrote: »

AK333 wrote: »

Im not far off what you earn and i have 2kids but your attitude stinks. You have a grudge based on what yoyr situation is. You earn 10k and mainly take home most of that. This guatd earns 57k but probably only takes home just under 30k including ot etc.
Oh anfd you say"if you dont like your job change it" sure one could say to you if your not happy wirh your pay...get a better paying job?? See its not that simple is it?

I am not going to a national paper and moaning and only used my circumstances to show that its a nonsence to say you can't live on 57k. As it happens I just got a part time job for 6 hrs a week and I'm absolutely delighted. I wasn't saying get a better paid job - did you even read my post - I was referring to the previous post that said guards have to deal with scum etc, I said he knew the job description when he went for the job - no good moaning about the clientele now

read the posts properly before you try and run them down ....

noodler · 14-02-2013 01:03AM

The salary is not the issue here.

Potential-Monke · 14-02-2013 01:04AM

AK333 wrote: »

I am not going to a national paper and moaning and only used my circumstances to show that its a nonsence to say you can't live on 57k. As it happens I just got a part time job for 6 hrs a week and I'm absolutely delighted. I wasn't saying get a better paid job - did you even read my post - I was referring to the previous post that said guards have to deal with scum etc, I said he knew the job description when he went for the job - no good moaning about the clientele now

read the posts properly before you try and run them down ....

You do realise it's more than just dealing with scum right? Or let me guess, you probably think all we do is drive around arresting the "easy" targets, eating free doughnuts and drinking free tea, getting free meals at restaurants, etc.

Well nothing could be further from the truth. Dealing with scum is maybe 20% of the job. Dealing with management is far, far worse. You don't get told that when you're joining. You're led to believe that they look out for you, have your back, when all they want is to move up in the ladder, and don't care who they've to step on in the process. Your back is constantly up against a wall, and we haven't even started on the paperwork yet.

Alas, no one will ever know what it is like unless they do the job. The Official Secrets Act stops us from going into detail, the threat of Criminal Proceedings for doing/saying something, combined with the threat of a breach of the Garda Code, also stops us from saying too much. If i had known all this before i joined, i would have ran. But i wanted to do my bit for this country, and it was AGS or the Army. I picked the wrong one. I'm potentially putting my job on the line by even saying this on an open forum!

You obviously have a problem with the wages of AGS, and i believe it stems from your current earnings.

collegeme · 14-02-2013 01:05AM

AK333 wrote: »

collegeme wrote: »

I am not going to a national paper and moaning and only used my circumstances to show that its a nonsence to say you can't live on 57k. As it happens I just got a part time job for 6 hrs a week and I'm absolutely delighted. I wasn't saying get a better paid job - did you even read my post - I was referring to the previous post that said guards have to deal with scum etc, I said he knew the job description when he went for the job - no good moaning about the clientele now

read the posts properly before you try and run them down ....

I did read your post properly. My main arguement is that 50k+ is by no means big bucks. I work with people every day who earn multiples of what i do and cant survive. Now im talking in some cases 10times my income and cant afford the family holiday that i can .Some are foolish but in my opinion 50k aint big bucks when you see whats actually taken home.

AK333 · 14-02-2013 01:13AM

Read the OP post. This is not about salary is about someone saying the couldn't afford food. I was asked to say what my weekly money went on for comparison - so I did (silly me).

Its nothing to do with being a guard or not being a guard or overtime or benefits or anything else - I thought the thread was about someone earning a good wage but choosing to spend it on other things than food - and I said that is a nonsense, and I still stand by that post.

Now as far as what a guard's job description is I take your explanation as fact cos I don't know. But, they knew what the job was when they applied for it - no good moaning about it now. And lots of us would do different jobs - hindsights a great thing but don't presume you know what I think. You don't. And I don't live in Dublin or a big city, don't judge everyone by your prejudices.

Now I'm bowing out of this thread because you are changing it into an us versus them

Potential-Monke · 14-02-2013 01:16AM

AK333 wrote: »

And I don't live in Dublin or a big city, don't judge everyone by your prejudices.

Where did that come from? (Genuinely, can't make a connection)

I'm not attacking you, i'm making an observation based on the posts you made. They come across as i described.

But perhaps it is best to leave this to a different thread, or none at all. Too often threads of this nature turn into an us vs them affair, you are correct.

7 7 12 · 14-02-2013 01:22AM

I dunno what's happening here, if we keep slashing garda pay it opens the door for corruption (very common among police in poorer countries), bribes, and forcing gardai to live in more working class areas (can you imagine a garda living in ballyfermot or somewhere like that). Yet we cannot afford the current wage levels so the only solution is either hire less gardai and pay them current rates (solves above problems) or slash their pay (creates above problems).

dvpower · 14-02-2013 01:25AM

7 7 12 wrote: »

I dunno what's happening here, if we keep slashing garda pay it opens the door for corruption (very common among police in poorer countries), bribes, and forcing gardai to live in more working class areas (can you imagine a garda living in ballyfermot or somewhere like that). Yet we cannot afford the current wage levels so the only solution is either hire less gardai and pay them current rates (solves above problems) or slash their pay (creates above problems).

I'm sure there are plenty of guards living in Ballyfermot.

7 7 12 · 14-02-2013 01:29AM

dvpower wrote: »

I'm sure there are plenty of guards living in Ballyfermot.

I really doubt there's even a single one living there, their house would be targeted repeatedly as soon as word got out. I'm not singling out Ballyfermot there's probably very nice people living there, I mean in general the scum element in working class areas. They don't usually mix too well with our police force.

K-9 · 14-02-2013 02:07AM

AK333 wrote: »

I did read your post properly. My main arguement is that 50k+ is by no means big bucks. I work with people every day who earn multiples of what i do and cant survive. Now im talking in some cases 10times my income and cant afford the family holiday that i can .Some are foolish but in my opinion 50k aint big bucks when you see whats actually taken home.

Ah now come on, it mightn't be big bucks but have we reached a stage that a grand a week is poorly paid?

0066ad · 14-02-2013 02:57AM

collegeme wrote: »

AK333 wrote: »

I did read your post properly. My main arguement is that 50k+ is by no means big bucks. I work with people every day who earn multiples of what i do and cant survive. Now im talking in some cases 10times my income and cant afford the family holiday that i can .Some are foolish but in my opinion 50k aint big bucks when you see whats actually taken home.

500,000k a year and can't afford the family holiday, have you any idea how
idiotic that sounds? that's more than an average factory employee can earn
after 20 years of employment. And they can't afford a family holiday are you
seriously suggesting this?

I'm lost for words :eek:

Kettleson · 14-02-2013 03:03AM

Let them eat cake.

miss no stars · 14-02-2013 03:17AM

0066ad wrote: »

500,000k a year and can't afford the family holiday, have you any idea how
idiotic that sounds? that's more than an average factory employee can earn
after 20 years of employment. And they can't afford a family holiday are you
seriously suggesting this?

I'm lost for words :eek:

Given that the same poster said they earn closer to €10,000 I'm presuming the people to whom he's referring are on around €100,000 a year. If that's the sole income for a family, which has dropped since the recession started (say other parent was laid off and can't claim welfare due to spousal income) but bought a house 8 years ago that's still got a big mortgage on it that was assessed with at least SOME of the second income in mind.... Then I can see how there might be a problem paying for the family holiday alright.

100k gross... take home 50 (ish)
say 20 year mortgage with initial principle €400,000 gives monthly repayments of around €2600, which is say €30,000 a year.

Then there might be a car loan?

food...

Heating, electricity, health insurance, pension, internet, phone, car fuel, car maintenance, car insurance & tax, maybe a little savings.

Where in there do you see room for a family holiday? A lot of people have found themselves in similar situations (1 income gone totally, the other reduced). While they may technically be on "good" money they:

a) don't see a lot of it thanks to taxation rates more appropriate for a booming economy than a struggling one
b) have expenses that were calculated in line with their situation years ago that are now very hard to bear.

You can't just look at a number and ignore the bigger picture. And don't roll out more of the tripe of "oh they should live within their means". Plenty of people were living well within their means but couldn't have predicted a worldwide recession with Ireland being hit SO badly.

unkel · 14-02-2013 03:34AM

Boombastic wrote: »

Different Sergeant, today's paper
One garda sergeant said he would "definitely sink" if his €57,000-a-year earnings, which include premium pay and allowances, fell.

No other low to mid ranking police officer anywhere else in Europe (probably in the world) earns anywhere near €60k.

Putting his kids in private education, LOL, €24k in schools and €30k in mortgage a year, who the fukc does he think he is, a movie star or something? :rolleyes:

Gardai should be paid well and we can never pay them enough for the risks they could face in the line of duty. But whingeing and moaning like you can't afford a millionaires lifestyle on your public service salary is making my blood boil tbh

Cookie_Monster · 14-02-2013 03:51AM

snubbleste wrote: »

What's he not saying?

He's not saying that he's a fat lazy ****

This Garda sergeant lives within walking distance of his workplace and walks to work or as he says
"I often walk to work because I can't afford to put petrol in the car,"

u_c_thesecond · 14-02-2013 03:56AM

Judging by my calculations 1400 a month is 16800 a year and if they got a 35 year morgage that is 588000- and sorry anyone who gets a morgage that big is a twit!

K-9 · 14-02-2013 05:51AM

Forget about the mortgage.

Apparently private education is a right now.

3rdDegree · 14-02-2013 06:02AM

u_c_thesecond wrote: »

Judging by my calculations 1400 a month is 16800 a year and if they got a 35 year morgage that is 588000- and sorry anyone who gets a morgage that big is a twit!

You're forgetting interest which would change your figures significantly. If you had a 300k mortgage over 35 years, you'd be paying back nearly 588k in total.

collegeme · 14-02-2013 11:00AM

0066ad wrote: »

500,000k a year and can't afford the family holiday, have you any idea how
idiotic that sf
uounds? that's more than an average factory employee can earn
after 20 years of employment. And they can't afford a family holiday are you
seriously suggesting this?

I'm lost for words :eek:

I work part time and earn 14k . Just because i feel 50k is by no means big bucks doesnt mean i earn that. Im talking someone on €130k big mortgage cant head with the family to USA .

I think generally people who earn less than the person have no sympathy and feel theyre overpaid, people who earn more understand. But im a realist and dont make silly comments re. conveniently forgetting the diffetence between gross and net and also forgetting interest on a mortgage typically means ypu repay almost double what you borrowed...its callrd compound interest

conorhal · 14-02-2013 11:48AM

Considering that you could probably find literally thousands of people about whom you could write a story about the plight of the 'working poor', people who are merely living a day to day subsistance existance, I get highly suspicious when I read articles like these and suspect the subject has been deliberately chosen to provoke exactly the response this thread has generated.

Thanks quisling INM, the government’s Gobel’s wing along with RTE Pravda, for your timely spun propaganda piece designed to make the job of slashing the wages of frontline staff that much easier and ensure social discord rather then solidarity is sewn, consider the people divided and conquered.

14-02-2013 12:01PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You do realise it's more than just dealing with scum right? Or let me guess, you probably think all we do is drive around arresting the "easy" targets, eating free doughnuts and drinking free tea, getting free meals at restaurants, etc.

Well nothing could be further from the truth. Dealing with scum is maybe 20% of the job. Dealing with management is far, far worse. You don't get told that when you're joining. You're led to believe that they look out for you, have your back, when all they want is to move up in the ladder, and don't care who they've to step on in the process. Your back is constantly up against a wall, and we haven't even started on the paperwork yet.

Alas, no one will ever know what it is like unless they do the job. The Official Secrets Act stops us from going into detail, the threat of Criminal Proceedings for doing/saying something, combined with the threat of a breach of the Garda Code, also stops us from saying too much. If i had known all this before i joined, i would have ran. But i wanted to do my bit for this country, and it was AGS or the Army. I picked the wrong one. I'm potentially putting my job on the line by even saying this on an open forum!

You obviously have a problem with the wages of AGS, and i believe it stems from your current earnings.

As I've said elsewhere, I feel sorry for the Gardai who give a ****. There was something on the news the other evening about some people being barred from O'Connell St. by the courts after a Garda operation dealing with anti-social behaviour etc., the Gardai must feel useless turning up to court for such cases after a few weeks of working on a case like that.

That said, I don't think there's any reason for a Garda to be starving barring pretty awful personal financial management.

ThisRegard · 14-02-2013 12:25PM

Why would they feel useless ? They went to court to get ASBOs against a number of people, and got them.

Potential-Monke · 14-02-2013 01:58PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Why would they feel useless ? They went to court to get ASBOs against a number of people, and got them.

Then the same people come back to the area they're barred from, get re-arrested, and the same outcome instead of what is supposed to happen. It's a vicious circle, where the defendant gets umpteen chances, with no end to those chances. It's more the "proper" criminals who get easy sentences who piss us off. You spend loads of time gathering evidence, arresting, interviewing, followed by a file which will never be perfect (we nearly need a degree in file preperation these days), summons, court. The defendant could have 36 previous convictions for burglary, and you catch them coming out of a house with valuables, and the court gives them a suspended sentence! You lose heart in the system.

Deleted User wrote: »

That said, I don't think there's any reason for a Garda to be starving barring pretty awful personal financial management.

Nearly half the wages are gone on taxes, then take out the mortgage and loans, insurance for car and house, medical cover (100% necessary in this job), income protection (also 100% necessary, due to never knowing when you could be out injured because of work), food, petrol, internet (100% necessary to my sanity), mobile bill (also necessary due to having to use the phone for GPS/calls at work), gas/electricity. It all adds up.

As i said, after paying all that, i have €25 a week. Not enough to save, not enough to cover unexpected bills, not enough to do something on the few days off. I've made an agreement with the credit union to reduce my payments, so it's extended over an extra 2 years and i can't get another loan. I'm paying just above interest only on the mortgage. I'm at the bottom, can't go any further. I was able to afford all this in 2010, with maybe €100 disposable afterwards. Not anymore.

Dj Grimreefer · 14-02-2013 02:47PM

A copper that can't afford food?
Would you ever give it arrest

Ray Palmer · 14-02-2013 03:45PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Nearly half the wages are gone on taxes, then take out the mortgage and loans, insurance for car and house, medical cover (100% necessary in this job), income protection (also 100% necessary, due to never knowing when you could be out injured because of work), food, petrol, internet (100% necessary to my sanity), mobile bill (also necessary due to having to use the phone for GPS/calls at work), gas/electricity. It all adds up.

As i said, after paying all that, i have €25 a week. Not enough to save, not enough to cover unexpected bills, not enough to do something on the few days off. I've made an agreement with the credit union to reduce my payments, so it's extended over an extra 2 years and i can't get another loan. I'm paying just above interest only on the mortgage. I'm at the bottom, can't go any further. I was able to afford all this in 2010, with maybe €100 disposable afterwards. Not anymore.

You might want to check your payslip again because there is no way you are paying half in taxes. It just isn't possible.
I don't think anything you mentioned are excessive as luxuries but you have over blown some things. A building site is more dangerous than your job.
Don't use your phone for work. That is your choice. Don't you get paid when injured on the job?
Still you are kind of scr*wed. Wages are going to have to come down. They either pay less or reduce the force

Potential-Monke · 14-02-2013 08:45PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You might want to check your payslip again because there is no way you are paying half in taxes. It just isn't possible.
I don't think anything you mentioned are excessive as luxuries but you have over blown some things. A building site is more dangerous than your job.
Don't use your phone for work. That is your choice. Don't you get paid when injured on the job?
Still you are kind of scr*wed. Wages are going to have to come down. They either pay less or reduce the force

It's not far off it. And by taxes i'm including PAYE, PRSI, USC, and 3 pension levies that we pay. The only luxury i have is the internet, and that is my main (and nearly only) source of entertainment, so i won't be getting rid of that. I will admit that i got more in loans than i needed to back through the years, but always within my budget.

A building site is dangerous, but with proper precautions, the majority of accidents can be avoided. Yes, there will be some un-expected accidents, but no where near as many in AGS. You never know what the next call will bring, and planning ahead and having proper equipment is only half of it.

You get paid when injured, but depending on the nature of the injury, you could be out for a good while, and after a certain amount of time, your wages get cut in half. That's where the income protection comes in. Necessary security, because the Chief Medical Officer won't let you back to work until you're 100% (to avoid legal cases down the line).

They're already reducing the force, and it's already below a dangerous level (burglaries have increased). Any more, and no one will be getting an immediate service because there won't be anyone to respond (especially outside Dublin City).

And a cut in wages, as i have described above, will bring me into negative earnings (yes, it's possible to have a minus on the payslip). And there is nothing i can do to sort it. EBS won't lower the mortgage, already have a credit agreement with the Credit Union so can't lower that any more. Can't get a second job as i don't have a trade, and no one will take a part time worker who can only work 3 weekends out of 10, plus we can't let a second job affect the Working Time Directive (ie: minimum rest periods) so there really is nothing more that i can do.

My only option, should wages be cut, is getting the hell out of the country and leaving all my debt behind for the taxpayer to foot. Which i don't want to do. I got the loans, i got the mortgage, i want to pay them back, but if it comes to a case of my mental health against debt, well it's obvious what the decision will be.

greenoverred · 14-02-2013 09:47PM

Just a few figures for clarity

Take a Garda after 15 years service. Basic pay is €45,000. Big bucks I think it has been described as in this thread.

Take home pay is €29,500 - €560 per week.

Not bad you say.

A look at some of the weekly expenses posted on the thread

10 euro in an oil envelope
15 in house insurance envelope
10 in car insurance envelope
15 in phone/internet envelope
10 in electricity envelope
10 in car tax envelope
15 for coal etc each week

then I pay for food - approx 60

so far I'm up to 145

then 40 to credit union
and petrol and child school costs and party presents etc etc

Ill use this as a template but I have to add a €250 mortgage, €30 Medical Insurance. €50 petrol costs. I also have property tax, water charges, TV Licence. So there you have it. My weekly outgoings ahve gone over €580. That's the €45,000 salary gone. If I was in your situation and had a child I would have childcare costs to consider as well but I wont go into that.

If I work all the night hours, Sundays and Saturdays during the 10 week roster I have a potential to earn and extra €2000 per 10 week period. 60% of this is given back so this becomes €800. ie €80 per week. Rent allowance of €80 per week also cut by 60% which leaves €32. This is to pay of any extra bills that may arise during the week.

9 bank holidays during the year which if Im lucky I might get to work 6 so that is another €1000. €400 after deductions.

No overtime left work talking about but if I do manage to pick up the odd hour 60% goes back in deductions.

I wont go into the conditions of the job or health effects of working shifts because it has to be done to keep the bills paid and I did understand them going into the job but for one particular poster who works six hours a week to be complaining about his lot because he feels a guard is overpaid, well just remember the Guard is doing 40hours of shift work for similar disposable income to yourself

Garda Sergeant can't afford food

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