Violent Overthrow of the Government or:

Well, violence usually results in a government even worse than what was already in place originally, but I think it would be relatively easy to topple this government, just with the right numbers in peaceful protest.

The problem though:
Who do you replace them with, and what will be their plan for government?


The ECB/EU pretty much have us by the balls while we're still using the Euro, and they are not democratically accountable to us (sure, we have representatives in the EU, but Germany or any other large nation, can easily fillibuster actions needed for our recovery), so just how much mileage can we get trying to negotiate with the EU, and where are we going to be in 10 years time if that proves to be fruitless, but with us staying in the EU anyway?
It's not looking good. We are going to be in this same situation for at least another decade, if we stay on our current course, and in that time we will go through a lot more austerity budgets and social/economic destruction (things only get worse on our current course), and even when recovery comes we will be suffering the debt burden for generations.

So, we need a government that will be willing to seek out the widest range of alternative options possible, and who actually have the balls to fight for that within the EU (which our current subservient government is unwilling to do); there are actually no economic obstacles to solving the crisis in the EU, there are just political obstacles such as Germany vetoing necessary reforms/recovery-policies.

If after giving that a strong effort, it proves fruitless, we are going to have to look at much harder options, such as reducing our role within the EU, reintroducing the Punt (to get back control over monetary policy), and then we're going to have to figure out what to do with our debts.
Keeping debts in Euro, after switching to Punt, would be suicidal (having a huge amount of national debt in foreign currency, is what has caused hyperinflation for many countries); we may be forced to partially default on it, and/or convert it to Punt, which is also an effective default; this could cause political rifts with other nations (though arguably is less destructive for us in the long run, since we are taking serious damage from unemployment now).


Even then, we would need a government which actually knows how to economically run the country after a reintroduction of the Punt, who would have to have the confidence and economic knowledge to use money creation for funding, since we would probably have reduced access to bond markets due to (partially or not) defaulting.
That would be uncharted territory (only a handful of very small countries have funded themselves like that before), but unless the EU situation improves significantly, it is one of the only ways our country can get out of the crisis, in the short term.

That would be quite a painful transition, but it would be done with full employment and improving services/infrastructure (thus ending the massive social/economic destruction of unemployment and decimated services), but likely with a reduction in the standard of living, that will last for a time.
In the long run though, this would be less destructive to us as a country, as we would not continue to incur the massive social damage that unemployment and severely impaired services imposes, and we could actually bounce back to economic recovery in a relatively short period (but still likely requiring a reduced standard of living for a period, due to possible political sanctions).


We don't have politicians or economists capable of making this transition though, and we would quickly need to develop them if we are to get out of our current situation (mainly if reducing our role within Europe becomes necessary).


Now, if by some miracle the EU actually comes to its senses and we get proper recovery policies enacted, that is the best of all worlds, but if that takes a decade to happen (and we are already half a decade into this crisis), there is going to be an intolerable amount of human suffering between now and then. Right now, such an EU recovery looks very unlikely.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We need more maths teachers.

and here in lies the problem in this country when all you will take from the op is this

TheBegotten wrote: »

We're still (mostly) functional as a society, we're not being oppressed by powers internal or external, and for the most part, we're well educated and respected as citizens.

are you for real?? what planet are you living on like?? :eek::eek::eek:

K-9 wrote: »

You might be on to something, kyussbishop the same, it isn't as if both of ye don't say it enough, you've both posted posted it in dozens of posts.

The only reasonable answer I can think of is nobody cares.

Probably yes, for a lot of people; I think though, that a lot of it is that people are fed so much of the 'There Is No Alternative' line aimed at keeping things as they are, that many genuinely believe we are stuck with no options, but I think if people realized the potential for what could be achieved were we to seek other options, they may care more.

We could pretty much end unemployment permanently (and all the suffering that is causing), provide extensive upgrades to the public health service, any/all necessary mental health facilities/programs, improve infrastructure all over the country (power, local rail, broadband/wireless), maintain guaranteed education up to and through third level, beef up funding for research....anything really; if you can think of anything that's socially or otherwise worth doing, it can be done, so long as there is available labour/resources, and so long as inflation is kept in check.

It's never really a problem of money, not for a government in control over their own currency, it's a problem of resource management, of having enough resources and labour (with the right skills, health and opportunities); inflation gets excessive when you have a shortage of that, so it's then that you cut back spending (which shows the madness of cutting spending when there is so much unemployment).

K-9 wrote: »

Hollande was the great Socialist hope, we're still waiting.

All it takes is one major player in Europe, such as Germany, to fillibuster reform, and that deadlocks the entire political process and prevents reform; the EU just agreed to lock us into seven more years of this with their recent budget.

Unfortunately, it's increasingly looking like no real solution is going to come from the EU (just the minimum amount of action necessary, every time an issue comes to a head, to avoid real reform), and it's probably going to be another 10-15 years of this; countries reducing their role in Europe, may be the only solution to the crisis, because it looks like the EU wants to lock us into austerity for the full course of the remaining ~10-15 years of the crisis.

If we (or any other government) are to do this though, the right political and economic expertise needs to be in charge though, which is far from the case.

The idea of an actual violent overthrow is kind of a romantic vision for some, though the trouble is it usually leads to someone even worse in power; I think that if people had a realistic view of the serious deep pit we're in (this crisis will last another 10-15 years still, maybe more for us), and were actually aware of the alternatives (instead of accepting that the EU deadlock is an inescapable fact of life), then it would be possible to increase peaceful attendance of protests, and pressure government out that way.

Again though, we don't seem to have the politicians or expertise available, who can properly guide us out of the crisis, and with that in mind, it'd be that which first needs to be built up, and seeing as that would take years, the next elections in 2016 are probably the better target.
However, I don't have a lot of hope of the right knowledge and awareness of alternatives being spread, so probably nothing will happen.