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Violent Overthrow of the Government or:

markesmith

How I Learned to Stop Worrying And Love The Relentless Spooning By The Financial Elite

I've read boards.ie since I was a young lad (late 20s).

I've seen all the threads there are to see, we've been going cyclical for the last ten or so years.

What happened last night was a joke, Irish 'shtyle', no preparation just staggering from crisis to crisis.

It's time we put down our computers, marched on the Dail and impaled people to get this country changed.

Seriously, peeps. Violent overthrow of the Government, none of this bullsh*t hubristic "Well why don't you go first", "IBTL", "tl;dr" yada yada

97 years after we get independence, are we going to prove that we are unworthy of it?

Come on boardsies, the deck's about to fall.

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Super-Rush

You lost me at peeps.

up for anything

I've been hoping all day that a charismatic, young and energetic (possibly bearded because they always seem to be sporting facial hair) revolutionary leader will appear to put a gun in my hand and a song in my heart but somehow, I don't think you're him. :mad:

coolhull

Ok, here's what we'll do..... You post up your phone number and a name and address. When the revolution starts, you just text us all, and we'll come running to stand behind you

Just not on a Friday night, cos that's my night for a few pints.

Right, we'll leave it all in your capable hands.. but don't leave it too long.

Hijpo

With B&Q closing down in Athlone and Waterford were sure to get a deal on some axe handles and some of those bamboo garden lanterns for added hostility, nothing conveys revolution like someone raising a firey stick above there head

who_me

We're all behind you.

..quite a distance behind you, and admittedly going in the opposite direction. But still, the idea is sound! Less talk, more action! I propose a motion to immediately consider condemning procrastination.

TheBegotten

Apart from the obvious, over-bearing CARCASS that we call an economy, there isn't really anything else worth revolting about. We're still (mostly) functional as a society, we're not being oppressed by powers internal or external, and for the most part, we're well educated and respected as citizens.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not conservative (quite the opposite) but for a society to rebel there must be quite extreme conditions. That being said, you'll find me at any number of marches and protests in town. When the proverbial sh1t hits the metaphorical fan, I plan to be on the front line.
There's a certain irony here: I started a thread like this a few months ago...

Pilotdude5

We should get Ray Darcy an Zig & Zag to do it. Here's a video of them in the USSR. Three weeks later the Soviet Union dissolved.

Coincidence?

hatrickpatrick

I actually agree with this, and I'm generally a pacifistic person. We've "tolerated" enough. If the legal system refuses to get the job done one more time I honestly will call for mob rule, even for one brief moment - if our courts can't get Seanie, Drumm, Fingers etc behind bars with no hope of ever seeing the light of day again, I advocate public guillotining of them and subsequent mounting of their heads along O'Connell bridge to give passers by something to spit in.

I am sick and tired of seeing the f*cking "banking class" getting away with murder while the little guy gets jailed for having a couple of joints or not paying his TV license. Western society is insane at the moment and I genuinely am starting to believe that a violent revolution is almost inevitable at this stage.

Anyone who says it's about money is missing the point - money is an artificial concept designed simply to facilitate trade in real, practical assets - the physical materials used in manufacturing, the skills to manufacture them, transport, whatever. We still have all these things even if the money system has collapsed - it's like a perfectly decent car which has run out of coolant. You don't just sit there in the car moping about how you can't go anywhere, you CHANGE THE WATER.

The ONLY people who would get hurt are those who have trillions of euro of our current money stashed away. For ordinary people like you and me, life would go on.

It's already begun with things like bitcoin, an uncontrolled, decentralized and interest free currency. And it's no coincidence that the powers that be are so furious that it's impossible to shut it down.

Bottom line is there are more of us than there are of them. They can't force us to play by their rules anymore if we collectively stand up and tell them to f*ck off. Farmers can still produce as much food this year as they did last year. If I had the skill to build a TV last year, I still have it this year. If a newspaper had news stories to run last year, they have it this year.

Why should any of this stop just because a human created concept, artificial currency, is not behaving itself? It's LUNACY.

FoxT

Impaling people generally does not work. If I thought it would, I'd be all for it.

IBRC deal is a D- for the Govt, IMO. It is an improvement, but not good enough.

Don't get too wound up about that though. The press has been masturbating over the promissory notes for ages, but they are a drop in the bucket.

Ireland owes about 210 Billion.
The IBRC deal gives a bit of relief on 30 Billion of it.

Our grandchildren (The ones who don't emigrate) , will be paying for it, either way.

The real, root cause here, is fundamental economic mismanagement by Bertie & Co. They deserve to be punished. But, because they did not break the law, they won't be. The Seanies & Fingers did what they did, because they could. They were permitted & facilitated in their irresponsible dealings because there was no political will to stop them.

They shall be hung out to dry , in due course, unless they die first .... we shall see.

KyussBishop

Well, violence usually results in a government even worse than what was already in place originally, but I think it would be relatively easy to topple this government, just with the right numbers in peaceful protest.

The problem though:
Who do you replace them with, and what will be their plan for government?

The ECB/EU pretty much have us by the balls while we're still using the Euro, and they are not democratically accountable to us (sure, we have representatives in the EU, but Germany or any other large nation, can easily fillibuster actions needed for our recovery), so just how much mileage can we get trying to negotiate with the EU, and where are we going to be in 10 years time if that proves to be fruitless, but with us staying in the EU anyway?
It's not looking good. We are going to be in this same situation for at least another decade, if we stay on our current course, and in that time we will go through a lot more austerity budgets and social/economic destruction (things only get worse on our current course), and even when recovery comes we will be suffering the debt burden for generations.

So, we need a government that will be willing to seek out the widest range of alternative options possible, and who actually have the balls to fight for that within the EU (which our current subservient government is unwilling to do); there are actually no economic obstacles to solving the crisis in the EU, there are just political obstacles such as Germany vetoing necessary reforms/recovery-policies.

If after giving that a strong effort, it proves fruitless, we are going to have to look at much harder options, such as reducing our role within the EU, reintroducing the Punt (to get back control over monetary policy), and then we're going to have to figure out what to do with our debts.
Keeping debts in Euro, after switching to Punt, would be suicidal (having a huge amount of national debt in foreign currency, is what has caused hyperinflation for many countries); we may be forced to partially default on it, and/or convert it to Punt, which is also an effective default; this could cause political rifts with other nations (though arguably is less destructive for us in the long run, since we are taking serious damage from unemployment now).

Even then, we would need a government which actually knows how to economically run the country after a reintroduction of the Punt, who would have to have the confidence and economic knowledge to use money creation for funding, since we would probably have reduced access to bond markets due to (partially or not) defaulting.
That would be uncharted territory (only a handful of very small countries have funded themselves like that before), but unless the EU situation improves significantly, it is one of the only ways our country can get out of the crisis, in the short term.

That would be quite a painful transition, but it would be done with full employment and improving services/infrastructure (thus ending the massive social/economic destruction of unemployment and decimated services), but likely with a reduction in the standard of living, that will last for a time.
In the long run though, this would be less destructive to us as a country, as we would not continue to incur the massive social damage that unemployment and severely impaired services imposes, and we could actually bounce back to economic recovery in a relatively short period (but still likely requiring a reduced standard of living for a period, due to possible political sanctions).

We don't have politicians or economists capable of making this transition though, and we would quickly need to develop them if we are to get out of our current situation (mainly if reducing our role within Europe becomes necessary).

Now, if by some miracle the EU actually comes to its senses and we get proper recovery policies enacted, that is the best of all worlds, but if that takes a decade to happen (and we are already half a decade into this crisis), there is going to be an intolerable amount of human suffering between now and then. Right now, such an EU recovery looks very unlikely.

G Power

dvpower wrote: »

Will you be getting involved in a violent overthrow of the government yourself, or will you be playing your part from behind your keyboard? :pac:

you're a real pain in the h0le with your attitude man!!

G Power

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We need more maths teachers.

and here in lies the problem in this country when all you will take from the op is this

G Power

Super-Rush wrote: »

You lost me at peeps.

ok, so you're well thought out excuse for not doing anything yourself is /\/\/\

G Power

TheBegotten wrote: »

We're still (mostly) functional as a society, we're not being oppressed by powers internal or external, and for the most part, we're well educated and respected as citizens.

are you for real?? what planet are you living on like?? :eek::eek::eek:

WhatNowForUs?

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I actually agree with this, and I'm generally a pacifistic person. We've "tolerated" enough. If the legal system refuses to get the job done one more time I honestly will call for mob rule, even for one brief moment - if our courts can't get Seanie, Drumm, Fingers etc behind bars with no hope of ever seeing the light of day again, I advocate public guillotining of them and subsequent mounting of their heads along O'Connell bridge to give passers by something to spit in.

I am sick and tired of seeing the f*cking "banking class" getting away with murder while the little guy gets jailed for having a couple of joints or not paying his TV license. Western society is insane at the moment and I genuinely am starting to believe that a violent revolution is almost inevitable at this stage.

Anyone who says it's about money is missing the point - money is an artificial concept designed simply to facilitate trade in real, practical assets - the physical materials used in manufacturing, the skills to manufacture them, transport, whatever. We still have all these things even if the money system has collapsed - it's like a perfectly decent car which has run out of coolant. You don't just sit there in the car moping about how you can't go anywhere, you CHANGE THE WATER.

The ONLY people who would get hurt are those who have trillions of euro of our current money stashed away. For ordinary people like you and me, life would go on.

It's already begun with things like bitcoin, an uncontrolled, decentralized and interest free currency. And it's no coincidence that the powers that be are so furious that it's impossible to shut it down.

Bottom line is there are more of us than there are of them. They can't force us to play by their rules anymore if we collectively stand up and tell them to f*ck off. Farmers can still produce as much food this year as they did last year. If I had the skill to build a TV last year, I still have it this year. If a newspaper had news stories to run last year, they have it this year.

Why should any of this stop just because a human created concept, artificial currency, is not behaving itself? It's LUNACY.

Interesting concept but who would pay for roads or how would roads be built. How would nurses and teachers be paid. Children and eldery have no means to 'pay' back what has been given to them.

K-9

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I actually agree with this, and I'm generally a pacifistic person. We've "tolerated" enough. If the legal system refuses to get the job done one more time I honestly will call for mob rule, even for one brief moment - if our courts can't get Seanie, Drumm, Fingers etc behind bars with no hope of ever seeing the light of day again, I advocate public guillotining of them and subsequent mounting of their heads along O'Connell bridge to give passers by something to spit in.

I am sick and tired of seeing the f*cking "banking class" getting away with murder while the little guy gets jailed for having a couple of joints or not paying his TV license. Western society is insane at the moment and I genuinely am starting to believe that a violent revolution is almost inevitable at this stage.

Anyone who says it's about money is missing the point - money is an artificial concept designed simply to facilitate trade in real, practical assets - the physical materials used in manufacturing, the skills to manufacture them, transport, whatever. We still have all these things even if the money system has collapsed - it's like a perfectly decent car which has run out of coolant. You don't just sit there in the car moping about how you can't go anywhere, you CHANGE THE WATER.

The ONLY people who would get hurt are those who have trillions of euro of our current money stashed away. For ordinary people like you and me, life would go on.

It's already begun with things like bitcoin, an uncontrolled, decentralized and interest free currency. And it's no coincidence that the powers that be are so furious that it's impossible to shut it down.

Bottom line is there are more of us than there are of them. They can't force us to play by their rules anymore if we collectively stand up and tell them to f*ck off. Farmers can still produce as much food this year as they did last year. If I had the skill to build a TV last year, I still have it this year. If a newspaper had news stories to run last year, they have it this year.

Why should any of this stop just because a human created concept, artificial currency, is not behaving itself? It's LUNACY.

You might be on to something, kyussbishop the same, it isn't as if both of ye don't say it enough, you've both posted posted it in dozens of posts.

The only reasonable answer I can think of is nobody cares.

Nonoperational

Jesus there's some really crazy bastards out there... Go on away and look forward to the soccer tomorrow or the Rugby on Sunday or something. Weirdos.

A violent overthrowing of the elite. Right ya, and everything will be so much better with the random crusties in charge.

I'm dangerously close to a roll eyes smiley, and I really hate those.

TheLastMohican

K-9 wrote: »

You might be on to something, kyussbishop the same, it isn't as if both of ye don't say it enough, you've both posted posted it in dozens of posts.
The only reasonable answer I can think of is nobody cares.

I agree. Nobody cares because they are fed by a nanny state. Proletariat revolution is a thing of the past. Real poverty no longer exists. The hunger for violent change has been tempered by cheap food, booze, chemicals and radical minds have been seduced by 24/7 TV.
But here's a story once told to me by an ex-Socialist Workers Party doyen:

A young man with fire in his blood, railed against all the injustices (real or percieved). He wrote letters to the papers, stood on a soap box in Temple Bar, got involved in the usual left wing causes, wrote more letters to the papers etc. Then a distant relative died and left him a fortune. He hasn't opened his mouth since.

Animal farm all over again.

Winston Payne

You say that like it's a bad thing.

KyussBishop

K-9 wrote: »

You might be on to something, kyussbishop the same, it isn't as if both of ye don't say it enough, you've both posted posted it in dozens of posts.

The only reasonable answer I can think of is nobody cares.

Probably yes, for a lot of people; I think though, that a lot of it is that people are fed so much of the 'There Is No Alternative' line aimed at keeping things as they are, that many genuinely believe we are stuck with no options, but I think if people realized the potential for what could be achieved were we to seek other options, they may care more.

We could pretty much end unemployment permanently (and all the suffering that is causing), provide extensive upgrades to the public health service, any/all necessary mental health facilities/programs, improve infrastructure all over the country (power, local rail, broadband/wireless), maintain guaranteed education up to and through third level, beef up funding for research....anything really; if you can think of anything that's socially or otherwise worth doing, it can be done, so long as there is available labour/resources, and so long as inflation is kept in check.

It's never really a problem of money, not for a government in control over their own currency, it's a problem of resource management, of having enough resources and labour (with the right skills, health and opportunities); inflation gets excessive when you have a shortage of that, so it's then that you cut back spending (which shows the madness of cutting spending when there is so much unemployment).

johnr1

I suggested political assassination yesterday in the IBRC thread and nobody thanked the post so now ive got the hump - you can all fcuk off and shoot Noonan yourselves. :P

TheLastMohican

johnr1 wrote: »

I suggested political assassination yesterday in the IBRC thread and nobody thanked the post so now ive got the hump - you can all fcuk off and shoot Noonan yourselves. :P

Hey there Kerryman, chill. I'm drinking Burgundy - want to join me?

johnr1

TheLastMohican wrote: »

Hey there Kerryman, chill. I'm drinking Burgundy - want to join me?

Do you top the glass off with cream?

I prefer Creme De Mont with Congnac on top.

TheLastMohican

Nah! Just like my mother. She never took a glass in her life, just straight from the bottle

Pumpkinseeds

Hijpo wrote: »

With B&Q closing down in Athlone and Waterford were sure to get a deal on some axe handles and some of those bamboo garden lanterns for added hostility, nothing conveys revolution like someone raising a firey stick above there head

We better be quick though we gotta get us some pitchforks, after all an angry mob just ain't an angry mob without the pitchforks:D

oden

tayto lover wrote: »

I'll bring a load of sandwiches and a flask of tay.

Band-aids and sambos dude

K-9

TheLastMohican wrote: »

I agree. Nobody cares because they are fed by a nanny state. Proletariat revolution is a thing of the past. Real poverty no longer exists. The hunger for violent change has been tempered by cheap food, booze, chemicals and radical minds have been seduced by 24/7 TV.
But here's a story once told to me by an ex-Socialist Workers Party doyen:

A young man with fire in his blood, railed against all the injustices (real or percieved). He wrote letters to the papers, stood on a soap box in Temple Bar, got involved in the usual left wing causes, wrote more letters to the papers etc. Then a distant relative died and left him a fortune. He hasn't opened his mouth since.

Animal farm all over again.

Ireland politically over the last 25 or so years is simple. The PD's arose, everybody copied them, to such an extent Labour and even SF promised tax cuts.

WE spent a fortune on Health and Welfare. God forbid you'd cut those.

Every election was auction politics, we don't want to pay the extra taxes to fund the welfare, PS pay and Health systems. We point at the North, sure look at what they get (the begrudgery) and when it is pointed out they pay 3 times the PRSI, (sure what about the USC and the Household charge).

As Blazing Saddles said, simple folk.

KyussBishop wrote: »

Probably yes, for a lot of people; I think though, that a lot of it is that people are fed so much of the 'There Is No Alternative' line aimed at keeping things as they are, that many genuinely believe we are stuck with no options, but I think if people realized the potential for what could be achieved were we to seek other options, they may care more.

We could pretty much end unemployment permanently (and all the suffering that is causing), provide extensive upgrades to the public health service, any/all necessary mental health facilities/programs, improve infrastructure all over the country (power, local rail, broadband/wireless), maintain guaranteed education up to and through third level, beef up funding for research....anything really; if you can think of anything that's socially or otherwise worth doing, it can be done, so long as there is available labour/resources, and so long as inflation is kept in check.

It's never really a problem of money, not for a government in control over their own currency, it's a problem of resource management, of having enough resources and labour (with the right skills, health and opportunities); inflation gets excessive when you have a shortage of that, so it's then that you cut back spending (which shows the madness of cutting spending when there is so much unemployment).

Hollande was the great Socialist hope, we're still waiting.

KyussBishop

K-9 wrote: »

Hollande was the great Socialist hope, we're still waiting.

All it takes is one major player in Europe, such as Germany, to fillibuster reform, and that deadlocks the entire political process and prevents reform; the EU just agreed to lock us into seven more years of this with their recent budget.

Unfortunately, it's increasingly looking like no real solution is going to come from the EU (just the minimum amount of action necessary, every time an issue comes to a head, to avoid real reform), and it's probably going to be another 10-15 years of this; countries reducing their role in Europe, may be the only solution to the crisis, because it looks like the EU wants to lock us into austerity for the full course of the remaining ~10-15 years of the crisis.

If we (or any other government) are to do this though, the right political and economic expertise needs to be in charge though, which is far from the case.

G Power

KyussBishop wrote: »

Probably yes, for a lot of people; I think though, that a lot of it is that people are fed so much of the 'There Is No Alternative' line aimed at keeping things as they are, that many genuinely believe we are stuck with no options, but I think if people realized the potential for what could be achieved were we to seek other options, they may care more.

We could pretty much end unemployment permanently (and all the suffering that is causing), provide extensive upgrades to the public health service, any/all necessary mental health facilities/programs, improve infrastructure all over the country (power, local rail, broadband/wireless), maintain guaranteed education up to and through third level, beef up funding for research....anything really; if you can think of anything that's socially or otherwise worth doing, it can be done, so long as there is available labour/resources, and so long as inflation is kept in check.

It's never really a problem of money, not for a government in control over their own currency, it's a problem of resource management, of having enough resources and labour (with the right skills, health and opportunities); inflation gets excessive when you have a shortage of that, so it's then that you cut back spending (which shows the madness of cutting spending when there is so much unemployment).

sure i've heard people who are activists going along with the old ecb chestnut that now the ecb have the debt it's illegal to write it down

what planet are we living on that we let a group of ****$ tell us that this debt that was never ours to begin with cannot ever be dropped now cos they changed it to a different type of debt. the whole idea of the debt to begin with is the issue and they can change it a million times and call it what they like but i'm not paying the fcuking thing!!

we need the radicals in this country to storm the dail together and be done with waiting for the support that's never going to come!!
even waiting on the new groups popping up the last few years to get their acts together is a waste of time cos most are politicizing themselves for the next elections and the rest don't seem to be able to drop their agendas and affiliate with other groups and double numbers and go it alone.

if a couple of thousand brave people stormed the dail we could run the fools out of it and let the country know they didn't have to do anything as someone else took it upon themselves to go and sort it out for ye. anyone that goes in after the government are ran out of it would be well advised to cut the **** or they'll get the same treatment!!

KyussBishop

The idea of an actual violent overthrow is kind of a romantic vision for some, though the trouble is it usually leads to someone even worse in power; I think that if people had a realistic view of the serious deep pit we're in (this crisis will last another 10-15 years still, maybe more for us), and were actually aware of the alternatives (instead of accepting that the EU deadlock is an inescapable fact of life), then it would be possible to increase peaceful attendance of protests, and pressure government out that way.

Again though, we don't seem to have the politicians or expertise available, who can properly guide us out of the crisis, and with that in mind, it'd be that which first needs to be built up, and seeing as that would take years, the next elections in 2016 are probably the better target.
However, I don't have a lot of hope of the right knowledge and awareness of alternatives being spread, so probably nothing will happen.