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Australian Open 2013

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    #242
    RosyLily
    Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭RosyLily


    It really annoys me when journalists try to make these issues bigger than they are. The players made up and are good now so let it go! Same with Vika.

    I enjoyed the women's final today. Miles more entertaining than last year's! Felt sorry for Li Na. She had chances but just couldn't convert; those two falls she had definitely didn't help matters. Quite similar to the Aussie final she had with Kim Clijsters. I'm interested to see how she'll get on at the French Open with Carlos Rodriguez on her side. She might even win it!

    Not really excited for the final as in other years. Can't say I'm a fan of the battle of the fittest matches. IMO, Roger Federer is the last of a dying breed.


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    #243
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    RosyLily wrote: »
    I enjoyed the women's final today. Miles more entertaining than last year's! Felt sorry for Li Na. She had chances but just couldn't convert; those two falls she had definitely didn't help matters. Quite similar to the Aussie final she had with Kim Clijsters. I'm interested to see how she'll get on at the French Open with Carlos Rodriguez on her side. She might even win it!

    Last 2 years runner up at Aus Open won RG, and in 2008 as well. The odds are in her favour.


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    #244
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Ah, man. I feel sorry for Li Na. I think she would have won it if not for those injuries. Shame. Hopefully she'll keep up the good form for Roland Garros.

    With regards to the men's, gotta agree with how boring the battle of fitness has become. The fact remains that if they were all on the same level, neither Djokovic nor Murray would be good enough to beat Federer. I think he has changed the standard of the game, but not necessarily for the better. Players have had to figure out new ways to beat him and because none of them are actually talented or skillful enough, they have to rely on strength and fitness and literally just hammer the wins out. It's bad for the game.

    My brother is convinced Murray's on steroids! Can't accept his new level of form! :pac:


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    #245
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,082 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Federer is every bit as fit as the other two. This is not solely about fitness. It's not like comparing the men today from the men in the 70s and 80s. Shot selection and speed around the court are to me much more applicable when assessing Novak and Roger and Andy and Rafael and several others.

    I'd like anyone to point me out instances where Roger was dead on his feet? If anything his fitness control and used of his movement is a perfect counter balance against cardio stamina. It's Andy's explosive speed over short distances that can win him more points as opposed to his cardio stamina. And of course his shot selection and power. Cardio stamina is NOT what is giving the edge to Novak and Andy over Federer.

    Roger glides around the court effortlessly. Many others use raw speed and explosion.


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    #246
    RosyLily
    Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭RosyLily


    I agree! Players just don't have the similar game or style of Federer. Since he's getting older and the stamina drops, guys like Djokovic and Murray are basically outlasting him and keeping him on the run. I hope this new way of playing doesn't stay around for years. It was fun at the beginning but now.....not so much! But I can't see it dying off if the new players are copying Djokovic & Murray instead of Federer, or even Ferrero!


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    #247
    jamescd
    Registered Users Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭jamescd


    Put 50 quid on Murray to win just for the craic. I think Djokovic will come out on top though :pac:

    2czvsrp.jpg


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    #248
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    RosyLily wrote: »
    I agree! Players just don't have the similar game or style of Federer. Since he's getting older and the stamina drops, guys like Djokovic and Murray are basically outlasting him and keeping him on the run. I hope this new way of playing doesn't stay around for years. It was fun at the beginning but now.....not so much! But I can't see it dying off if the new players are copying Djokovic & Murray instead of Federer, or even Ferrero!

    I think young players are more likely to copy Djokovic and Murray because it's easier to achieve that level of fitness and strength (albeit with very hard work) than it is to achieve Federer's level of skill. A lot of what Federer has is just pure talent, a level of which other players simply don't have and there's nothing they can really do about that except maximize their other resources, i.e power, stamina, etc. They're making up for the fact that they can't match him skill-wise by muscling up. Roger Federer is one of a kind, and the fact is that he cannot be matched in terms of skill or aesthetics or vision (and I think most other players know this) means everyone else has to think of other ways that they can out-do him. Roger's not getting any younger, so it would seem natural that the likes of Murray are going to have more stamina on their side anyway.


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    #249
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    ^ I don't agree completely with that. Sure a lot of Federer's ability is purely natural and can't be taught. However, serve and volley can be taught, one handed backhands can be taught, movement can be worked on and improved. If you get a kid when they're 6 or 7 and don't let them do any of these things they're not going to be able to do them when they're 18 or 19 and trying to break into the main tour. Obviously you can't teach someone to be Roger Federer but I do get the impression that most coaches/academies now aren't even trying to teach anything other than strength and fitness.

    As I pointed out earlier though even the kids that are getting taught all these skills when they're young have it beaten out of them pretty swiftly once they start playing on the main tour.


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    #250
    davyjose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭davyjose


    Murray and Djoko both had a huge amount of talaent, and can play all the shots. Djokovic was, in the past, quite flaky fitness-wise. Two years ago he really put the effort in and it's taken him to the top. Murray seemed to follow suit a year later and look at the year he had.
    This is the final as it should be -- all due respect to Fed, but these two are essentially the best in the world right now.


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    #251
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,082 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Really, can anyone actually claim with evidence that Roger is NOT as fit as Novak and Murray? It's not something that you can really demonstrate regarding the three of them. Saying one "outlasts" the other doesn't at all explain it. Someone has to lose. And, is anyone saying that Roger cannot or will not beat either man again in a best of 5 sets?


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    #252
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    I could work on my fitness and strength all I want, it wouldn't make any difference because I'm not good enough to take someone like Federer to 5 sets anyway! Fitness helps give you that 1% difference at the top level, but it's still all about talent


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    #253
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I could work on my fitness and strength all I want, it wouldn't make any difference because I'm not good enough to take someone like Federer to 5 sets anyway! Fitness helps give you that 1% difference at the top level, but it's still all about talent

    It's not saying that Murray and Djokovic have no natural ability, of course they do. I don't know anyone though that would argue that Federer is far and away more naturally gifted than both of them.


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    #254
    RosyLily
    Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭RosyLily


    FUN FACT: Victoria Azarenka is now the 5th active female player with 2 or more Grand Slams to her name. The others are (see if you can name them)
    Serena Williams, Venus Williams, Maria Sharapova, Svetlana Kuznetsova
    .

    Murray and Djokovic are both going for a little slice of history tomorrow. Djokovic is trying to become the first man in the Open Era to win 3 consecutive Australian Open titles, whereas Murray is hoping to become the first man since Lew Hoad in 1956 to follow up their maiden Slam with another one.


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    #255
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    walshb wrote: »
    Really, can anyone actually claim with evidence that Roger is NOT as fit as Novak and Murray? It's not something that you can really demonstrate regarding the three of them. Saying one "outlasts" the other doesn't at all explain it. Someone has to lose. And, is anyone saying that Roger cannot or will not beat either man again in a best of 5 sets?

    I think the Murray/Fed match the other day shows a little of that. Federer just faded in the 5th set. It was actually the first time in his career that he's had to play 2 5 set matches back to back. Which is an amazing stat when you think about how long he's been playing and most Slam's he's playing the full 2 weeks.

    I think what the fitness level does is allows certain players to stay in a rally longer than he would if he was just using pure skill. Federer for example is incredibly talented but if you make him hit enough shots he shanks quite a few. By being able to run down all his shots and keep getting it back to him they win a lot of points of his errors.
    I wouldn't say that in itself proves he's any less fit than the likes of Murray or Djokovic. But it does make it harder for him to beat them as he doesn't seem to be able, or want to, play that kind of game.

    To be honest I've never been a fan of Federer, I respect his achievements, and I know he's a very stylish player, I just never liked him. But having watched practically every tournament over the past 18 months I've got a new sort of respect for him and his style of play. I sometimes find myself wanting him to stick to his guns and make the others look 2nd class a few more times.


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    #256
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    I know this should technically go in the "In Between Grand Slams" thread but a quick Irish update.
    James McGee lost in the final in Elliat, Israel today. Amy Bowtell is in the finals of a 10k in Preston tomorrow, she's beaten a few seeds on her way to it. James Clusky is in the doubles finals of... eh.... somewhere in France tomorrow too.

    Who needs the Australian Open final :D


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    #257
    manafana
    Registered Users Posts: 3,484 ✭✭✭manafana


    I had did piece o those challenger events before , the atp needs take a little money from top and pool it into those events, guys winning at that level and struggling to break even is not right, got prop up your talent pool in view.


    2012 was huge year for murray, he looked good against fed. I would not be suprised if the person with higher serve percentage wins out.


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    #258
    frojay
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭frojay


    Murray is up for this in a major way. He's pushing Djok for every point.


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    #259
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    So undeserved by Murray ...

    on teh back foot the whole set now he wins it on a tb ...

    :mad:


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    #260
    mrkiscool2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    the_monkey wrote: »

    on teh back foot the whole set now he wins it on a tb ...

    :mad:
    Da f**k you talking about? Great set of tennis by both players, very tight, back and forth stuff. Djokovic probably the better, but Murray all over him in the tie-break


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    #261
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    F*cking BBC ... jesus ...


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    #262
    Halloween Jack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Halloween Jack


    the_monkey wrote: »
    So undeserved by Murray ...

    on teh back foot the whole set now he wins it on a tb ...

    :mad:

    Therein lies the improvement, the murray of 2011 would have folded on those big break point he defended....


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    #263
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    Big game for Djokovic, still feeling sick listening to these nazi BBC c*nts ...


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    #264
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Some comeback from Djokovic after being 0-40 down just after losing the first set


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    #265
    mrkiscool2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭mrkiscool2


    the_monkey wrote: »
    Big game for Djokovic, still feeling sick listening to these nazi BBC c*nts ...
    Eurosport is better, far less biased than BBC. Also, Murray is the better player at the moment


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    #266
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    Murray has won this one ... done deal.

    congrats, maybe he'll be in Nole's head now ... like Rafa in Federer .... Nole in Rafa's etc....


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    #267
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    the_monkey wrote: »
    F*cking BBC ... jesus ...

    What about them ?


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    #268
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,082 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    the_monkey wrote: »
    Murray has won this one ... done deal.

    congrats, maybe he'll be in Nole's head now ... like Rafa in Federer .... Nole in Rafa's etc....

    Wee bit early with that one.


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    #269
    Halloween Jack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭Halloween Jack


    the_monkey wrote: »
    Big game for Djokovic, still feeling sick listening to these nazi BBC c*nts ...

    Like Hamilton or McGhee are any better? Commentators are biased, big deal...


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    #270
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,082 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I want Murray to win, but you gotta love Novak's character and personality on court.


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    #271
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    walshb wrote: »
    Wee bit early with that one.

    Bookmark it, guaranteed ....


    ill post back in an hour or 2 with a "I told you so" ...


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