Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

26-01-2013 06:44PM

jamie72 wrote: »

There was a 'chopper' over Dundalk within about an hour of it happening.

For a Garda having been killed the town seems pretty quiet. Doesn't seem to be any word going around either.

CZ 453 · 26-01-2013 06:45PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

The death penalty should be available for crimes of this nature and failing that, life + hard labour with NO remission. However, in this politically correct country with our useless hand wringing politicians is there any point in even looking for the scum responsible? :mad:

What power does the state have over a criminal that does life with hard labour with no remission?A prisoner with no option to reform is very dangerous and has nothing to lose.

My thoughts are with the family, friends and colleagues of the slain Garda.

the_syco · 26-01-2013 06:48PM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Christ! Patrol cars aren't being replaced and stations being shut down, numbers are dropping, morale at an all time low, due you really think A chopper for the eru is a runner!

Depends on whose budget it comes from, as I'm unsure who the ERU falls under.

shezer wrote: »

A prisoner with no option to reform is very dangerous and has nothing to lose.

I doubt 15 years in a nice cell will stop them from killing, tbh.

justshane · 26-01-2013 06:48PM

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Christ! Patrol cars aren't being replaced and stations being shut down, numbers are dropping, morale at an all time low, due you really think A chopper for the eru is a runner!

He said they should, which they should. Not that it will happen.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 26-01-2013 06:54PM

shezer wrote: »

What power does the state have over a criminal that does life with hard labour with no remission?A prisoner with no option to reform is very dangerous and has nothing to lose.

If he's never allowed re enter society let him be all the dangerous in the world, won't bother me in the least.

CZ 453 · 26-01-2013 06:55PM

the_syco wrote: »

I doubt 15 years in a nice cell will stop them from killing, tbh.

Is that all that happens in prison?You get a nice cell?

CZ 453 · 26-01-2013 06:58PM

Jacqueline Zealous Tuition wrote: »

If he's never allowed re enter society let him be all the dangerous in the world, won't bother me in the least.

What about the prison officers and the other prisoners?

KwackerJack · 26-01-2013 07:09PM

shezer wrote: »

What power does the state have over a criminal that does life with hard labour with no remission?A prisoner with no option to reform is very dangerous and has nothing to lose.

Then bring back the death penalty....a lot to lose then!!!

CZ 453 · 26-01-2013 07:10PM

Just on RTE news there that Gardai believe that the perpetrators would have known that Gardai escort the cash every friday night.

Biggins · 26-01-2013 07:16PM

shezer wrote: »

Just on RTE news there that Gardai believe that the perpetrators would have known that Gardai escort the cash every friday night.

Aye, so they going ahead and be willing to shoot coldly to the head, is indicative of the calibre of person that caused the death of a man.

I personally would call it murder even if others would see it as possibly manslaughter.

Anyone that is currently helping these criminals on the run, should be ashamed of themselves and should also be held for accountability.

My name is URL · 26-01-2013 07:18PM

Biggins wrote: »

Aye, so they going ahead and be willing to shoot coldly to the head, is indicative of the calibre of person that caused the death of a man.

I personally would call it murder even if others would see it as possibly manslaughter.

In what world would anyone call shooting someone in the head with a shotgun 'manslaughter'?

Shatter has some neck on him. "The Gardai have the full support of Governemnt"

Only yesterday he was criticisng them and saying they were acting like children after pulling out of talks.

KwackerJack · 26-01-2013 07:19PM

Biggins wrote: »

Aye, so they going ahead and be willing to shoot coldly to the head, is indicative of the calibre of person that caused the death of a man.

I personally would call it murder even if others would see it as possibly manslaughter.

Anyone that is currently helping these criminals, should be ashamed of themselves and should also be held for accountability.

If you carry a weapon and kill someone that's Murder as far as I'm concerned..why else would you need a real loaded weapon!!

Plenty of imitations if you want to scare someone!

Biggins · 26-01-2013 07:20PM

My name is URL wrote: »

In what world would anyone call shooting someone in the head with a shotgun 'manslaughter'?

It boils down to legal technicalities and a good solicitor seeking a lesser sentence for his defendant would look at such things.

My name is URL wrote: »

Shatter has some neck on him. "The Gardai have the full support of Governemnt"

Only yesterday he was criticisng them and saying they were acting like children after pulling out of talks.

If its ok in this thread, I'm personally leaving any political debate out of my responses.

wnolan1992 · 26-01-2013 07:21PM

KwackerJack wrote: »

If you carry a weapon and kill someone that's Murder as far as I'm concerned..why else would you need a real loaded weapon!!

Plenty of imitations if you want to scare someone!

Could easily argue that you had no intention of firing, but when the Garda kept approaching you you panicked and pulled the trigger.

A load of bollox IMO, but who knows how it'd fare in court with our judiciary.

uck51js9zml2yt · 26-01-2013 07:26PM

If the independent is right he hadn't pulled his gun before approaching them which is odd.
Doesn't justify what happened before anyone starts saying anything.
87 gardai killed in the line of duty.

Howjoe1 · 26-01-2013 07:29PM

in terms of bringing anyone to justice, the seeming lack of any lead in the case is worrying.

HondaSami · 26-01-2013 07:29PM

My name is URL wrote: »

In what world would anyone call shooting someone in the head with a shotgun 'manslaughter'?

Shatter has some neck on him. "The Gardai have the full support of Governemnt"

Only yesterday he was criticisng them and saying they were acting like children after pulling out of talks.

Id say shatter could not care less, he has no respect for AGS and that is obvious from his statements, worst minister ever imo.

Howjoe1 wrote: »

in terms of bringing anyone to justice, the seeming lack of any lead in the case is worrying.

Really and how have you come to this conclusion? It's not even 24hrs since the incident ffs

Luca Brasi · 26-01-2013 07:40PM

My name is URL wrote: »

In what world would anyone call shooting someone in the head with a shotgun 'manslaughter'?

Shatter has some neck on him. "The Gardai have the full support of Governemnt"

Only yesterday he was criticisng them and saying they were acting like children after pulling out of talks.

Shatter is the worst Minister of Justice in a long time. Arrogance bred in to him.
The amount of money in the credit union last night would be small enough. A few people coming in on a weekly basis paying off loans for cars, holidays garage conversions etc. Not enough to justify the heavy army protection so the local gardai would do the escort to the night safe. It happens up and down the coun try all the time. Publicans petrol station owners etc ring the local station for an escort and if they can be obliged they will get one .

Biggins · 26-01-2013 07:41PM

Howjoe1 wrote: »

in terms of bringing anyone to justice, the seeming lack of any lead in the case is worrying.

What the public know, what they should know at this time, is very important.
Too much information in the public domain can just be as bad to Garda effectiveness as can be none at all.

Just because the public is not aware of the latest update in Garda intelligence data, doesn't mean there is lack of leads.

Royal Irish · 26-01-2013 07:42PM

the_syco wrote: »

The ERU should have a chopper on standby to search for this sort of scum.

I live near the credit union and the Garda chopper wasn't flying around here until about 11:30pm. So it took them 2 hours to get in the air and fly here. The ERU would have been quicker driving from Dublin.

This whole thing is just awful sad. A life snuffed out in a second by scum. Its wishful thinking but I hope the gardai arrest them, and give them the biggest hiding in the cells.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 26-01-2013 07:43PM

Bambi wrote: »

Did you unlock this thread , stick a dig in at the provies and then lock it again

Just for the record.. A moderator can post in a locked thread if they're a moderator of the forum the thread is lock.

For example I can, and regularly do it in the Martial Arts forum but I can not do it here or any other forum I don't moderate.

wonderfullife · 26-01-2013 07:46PM

WallyGUFC wrote: »

So there shouldn't be the death penalty for murdering a normal citizen, just Gardaí and Defence Forces? Death penalty would be disastrous in this country anyway considering the ineptitude of judges. Toughen up prisons and make life sentences mean life sentences i.e. die in prison.

RIP to the guy. Just out doing your job, you don't expect this to happen. A serious layer of scum seems to be rising to the top in society lately. Hope all perpetrators are caught and dealt the full rigours of the limited laws we have.

In general, the reason crimes against Police and Defence Forces carry harsher penalties is that their jobs are to protect and serve the people. Nobody will suggest a Guards life is worth more than a teacher or a nurse or a builder. It's just their specific role is to protect the people.

I could be wrong but i believe the last people sentenced to death for the murder of a Guard were the Murrays in the 1970s. A couple who killed an off-duty Guard, their sentence was commuted to life by the President (mainly on the basis the Guard was off-duty and not in uniform, so they couldn't have known). Incidentally they were my neighbours growing up having been released in the early 90s and were thoroughly nice people. Hard to get your head around it really but i suppose people make mistakes in life.

Any loss of life is a pure tragedy. It's just particularly hard to take when a man goes out to work with the explicit purpose of protecting and serving our communities and doesn't get to come home. We've all had a laugh about Guards at some point in our lives but they really do an amazing job with little thanks for it.

I'm sure it's no consolation to anybody who knew this man but he died carrying out a job of protecting the people. I hope everybody rallies around his family and members of the Gardai now. RIP.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 26-01-2013 07:50PM

Poppy Lively Sealskin wrote: »

If the independent is right he hadn't pulled his gun before approaching them which is odd.

May not be odd at all.

I'm not sure when a guard can draw his/her weapon.

I know I can't just go about pointing my weapon (Steyr AUG) at members of the public without very good reason.

Members of the public can and do approach escorts all the time.

I guess all the finer detail will be released in time.

Isn't it sad and sickening that someone in the community know who done this and is giving them shelter.

Dyr · 26-01-2013 07:53PM

Jacqueline Zealous Tuition wrote: »

Just for the record.. A moderator can post in a locked thread if they're a moderator of the forum the thread is lock.

For example I can, and regularly do it in the Martial Arts forum but I can not do it here or any other forum I don't moderate.

So a few hours after the thread was locked this moderator decided he'd get his tuppence hal'pennys worth in anyway. Classy

donegal_road · 26-01-2013 07:55PM

the sooner we have a cashless society the better

MagicSean · 26-01-2013 07:56PM

Howjoe1 wrote: »

in terms of bringing anyone to justice, the seeming lack of any lead in the case is worrying.

Do you not get the hourly emails? Are you signed up to the blog? Do you not get updates on all crimes or is it just his one? Have you tried ringing your local station and explaining to them that you are entitled to hourly updates to satisfy your curiosity?

Rayne Wooney · 26-01-2013 07:59PM

What's the punishment for killing a Garda?

Biggins · 26-01-2013 08:00PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

What's the punishment for killing a Garda?

"Life" (30 years?) I think?
Someone will correct me if wrong.

macadam · 26-01-2013 08:05PM

The last people sentenced to death for the killing of Sergent Patrick Morrisey also in Louth after robbing the labour exchange in Ardee in 1985 were Callan and McHugh from Cullaville and Crossmaglen, there sentence was change to 40 years imprisonment both now serving the remainder in Portlaoise, Mchugh has an appeal that was due to be heard this month.
Thats knocked on the head now I presume.

Biggins · 26-01-2013 08:08PM

macadam wrote: »

...Mchugh has an appeal that was due to be heard this month.
Thats knocked on the head now I presume.

At a guess, I wouldn't say so.
Legally, the person is entitled to their own application as a separate individual still.
Denial of such an opportunity down to outside events beyond their scope, might lead to a civil case of discrimination/unfairness or such like.

Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

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