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Time to get tough on scumbags

2

Comments

  • #32
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    Op can you give examles of where your theory work

    Cops in the Us and Uk are armed.Thats certainly not deterring crime nw is it


  • #33
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    all money runs are escorted by armed gards


  • #34
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    KwackerJack wrote: »
    I can agree to a certain extent. But ask the criminals to get rid of their guns because the police don't have any?? See what response you get!!

    If they are armed well we need to respond in the same way or just let them just do as they please!

    I've see reports of many robberies committed by guys with hurleys. Yep, in ireland you can rob a post office with a stick.

    Occasionally, it escalates and someone brings a gun to a stick fight. That's when the special cops arrive with their guns.

    I'm happy with this. I like knowing that at most the number of criminals walking around this country that are actually carrying firearms can probably be counted on less than my two hands.

    There's a few criminal organisations that have a few handguns. Most have nothing bigger. The ones that do have terrorist affiliations and they're rare.

    I think only an idiot would want to arm the police force in it's entirety. Once that happens criminals need guns for every robbery. Next thing you know, there's fire fights and police and bystanders are getting shot.

    I've only ever known a few cops, but they shared that opinion. The one thing they don't want is any reason for every petty criminal to start carrying guns.


  • #35
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    KwackerJack wrote: »
    They why so many negative post's about it??

    Either we have a force to uphold the law or we just give up and bow to drug dealers!

    Jesus, you guys only ever have two options don't you. We have some police that are armed. It's not an all or nothing problem.


  • #36
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    The 'kill or be killed' philosophy works both ways. The robber is thinking the exact same thing.
    Tragically a Detective has died tonight in a 'gun battle', which seems to suggest that the fact the Garda was armed may have contributed to his death.
    It's not the solution imo.


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  • #37
    Lenin Skynard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭Lenin Skynard


    Stained Class wrote: »
    As long as there's the generous levels of Social Welfare in this country, there will always be an underclass with an endless sense of entitlement without putting in hard work and they have loads of guns!

    There, I made your comment actually relevant to the thread. You're welcome.


  • #38
    eddhorse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    Grayson wrote: »

    I've see reports of many robberies committed by guys with hurleys. Yep, in ireland you can rob a post office with a stick.

    Occasionally, it escalates and someone brings a gun to a stick fight. That's when the special cops arrive with their guns.

    I'm happy with this. I like knowing that at most the number of criminals walking around this country that are actually carrying firearms can probably be counted on less than my two hands.

    There's a few criminal organisations that have a few handguns. Most have nothing bigger. The ones that do have terrorist affiliations and they're rare.

    I think only an idiot would want to arm the police force in it's entirety. Once that happens criminals need guns for every robbery. Next thing you know, there's fire fights and police and bystanders are getting shot.

    I've only ever known a few cops, but they shared that opinion. The one thing they don't want is any reason for every petty criminal to start carrying guns.

    Good point.
    If the Gardai did get guns, would the scumbags do a robbery if they didn't have guns ?
    The other side to this is would the Gardai 40 minutes away get there on time either way?
    I feel sorry for the Gardai at the mo, thankless job.


  • #39
    KwackerJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭KwackerJack


    sfwcork wrote: »
    Op can you give examles of where your theory work

    Cops in the Us and Uk are armed.Thats certainly not deterring crime nw is it

    Did I say that crime will drop when our force is armed??

    No what I said was our Gardai should be able to defend themselves and not have to go home in a body bag because of some coked up hard man with a pistol!!

    Some criminals will think twice as I said...!

    you have ten men against ten larger men....some of the smaller men will have sense and think, no bad idea!

    A criminal contemplating a robbery or shooting will think what if? 1 of me and 4 armed guards??

    Any person out number be it in a fight/shooting or even a sport will think twice before acting!!

    I did not once say it will stop crime but we have to show these scum that they cannot have free reign to shoot when they like


  • #40
    KwackerJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭KwackerJack


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The 'kill or be killed' philosophy works both ways. The robber is thinking the exact same thing.
    Tragically a Detective has died tonight in a 'gun battle', which seems to suggest that the fact the Garda was armed may have contributed to his death.
    It's not the solution imo.

    So if the Detective was not armed he had a better chance of surviving?????

    Well that's a good rule to work with :rolleyes:


  • #41
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The 'kill or be killed' philosophy works both ways. The robber is thinking the exact same thing.
    Tragically a Detective has died tonight in a 'gun battle', which seems to suggest that the fact the Garda was armed may have contributed to his death.
    It's not the solution imo.
    so do you really think unarmed escortes
    are the way to go?
    really


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  • #42
    bullets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,612 ✭✭✭bullets


    I've never been able to make up my mind if I would agree with all the gardai being armed or not. I cant help but feel the training and amount of firearms experiance they get in the first place is not enough. Certainly I've no issue with the armed response unit and thing there should be more members to support the ordinary garda but I'm just not sure about issueing a firearm to every garda
    on patrol.

    I remember reading someplace before that one of the main garda gun ranges was shut down and they needed to aproach privite gun clubs to be allowed train. There have also been a few (3 or more? sorry I dont have news Links) cases where Serving members of the Gardia have committed suicide with a garda issued firearm, and there have been cases where firearms have been lost and stolen that were not widely reported in the media.

    my hometown you rarely see a garda on the beat walking the town, CCTV camera's have a more visable presence that anyone in uniform, We've had burglary's where I live where I witnessed the break in as it happened, took photos and kept ringing the local station who sent out detectives hours later.
    Kinda still shocked and stunned that there is going to be cuts in gardai numbers when there currently is not enough numbers to effectivly police the place.

    ~B


  • #43
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    KwackerJack wrote: »
    Did I say that crime will drop when our force is armed??

    No what I said was our Gardai should be able to defend themselves and not have to go home in a body bag because of some coked up hard man with a pistol!!

    Some criminals will think twice as I said...!

    you have ten men against ten larger men....some of the smaller men will have sense and think, no bad idea!

    A criminal contemplating a robbery or shooting will think what if? 1 of me and 4 armed guards??

    Any person out number be it in a fight/shooting or even a sport will think twice before acting!!

    I did not once say it will stop crime but we have to show these scum that they cannot have free reign to shoot when they like


    Your theory is useless kid.Cops in other countries carry guns and crimials have no issue shooting them.Just because cos have guns as never or will never deter crime.Do you really think that a gang planning on robbng a securicor van will go"oh wait ets not bother robbing it and go watch corrie"no.they dont give a rattling ****

    You swear were in the bronx by the way your going on


  • #44
    KwackerJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭KwackerJack


    sfwcork wrote: »
    Your theory is useless kid.Cops in other countries carry guns and crimials have no issue shooting them.Just because cos have guns as never or will never deter crime.Do you really think that a gang planning on robbng a securicor van will go"oh wait ets not bother robbing it and go watch corrie"no.they dont give a rattling ****

    You swear were in the bronx by the way your going on

    How many Army escorts have been attacked in this country???

    There's a reason why criminals don't try to often to rob a cash van escorted by the DF. and we all know that reason why!!




    **Can a mod please close this thread**


  • #45
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    KwackerJack wrote: »
    So if the Detective was not armed he had a better chance of surviving?????

    Well that's a good rule to work with :rolleyes:
    deco nate wrote: »
    so do you really think unarmed escortes
    are the way to go?
    really

    Well I'm going on reports on twitter that this wasn't a CIT situation, the Detective responded to a panic alarm according to some sources. Maybe that isn't what happened, I don't know.
    It is a rare thing here that somebody would open fire on a detective and kill in cold blood, very rare actually.
    Put two guns there and it's a 50/50 situation based on the 'kill or be killed' philosophy. You have to accept those odds if you arm the Gardai, that's the unfortunate truth.


  • #46
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    KwackerJack wrote: »
    How many Army escorts have been attacked in this country???

    There's a reason why criminals don't try to often to rob a cash van escorted by the DF.



    Good god.The reason vans are not robbed as frequent as before is not because the drivers are armed.

    How many cops are killed on duty in ireland...once in a blue moon

    As i said your clearly over reacting.its not the bronx


  • #47
    Stained Class
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Stained Class


    Lenin Skynard wrote: »
    There, I made your comment actually relevant to the thread. You're welcome.

    :confused:


  • #48
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    sfwcork wrote: »
    How many cops are killed on duty in ireland...once in a blue moon

    One is too many.


  • #49
    dave1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭dave1982


    sfwcork wrote: »
    Good god.The reason vans are not robbed as frequent as before is not because the drivers are armed.

    Can you explain why they're not being robbed as often?


  • #50
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,730 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    For those against arming the police force to tackle armed gangs or allowing people defend themselves in their home. What is your solution? What would you do with these people who have no hesitation killing you.


  • #51
    KwackerJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭KwackerJack


    sfwcork wrote: »
    Good god.The reason vans are not robbed as frequent as before is not because the drivers are armed.

    How many cops are killed on duty in ireland...once in a blue moon

    As I said your clearly over reacting.its not the bronx

    Who said driver were armed??? I said Army read the post properly!

    So why are Army escorted cash vans not hit??

    No I don't think I live in the Bronx but i don't think the widows of guards killed are living in paradise??

    They may as well be in the bronx as there going through hell now!!!


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  • #52
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    KwackerJack wrote: »
    More murders by armed gangs shooting non/less armed Garda.

    The rules of engagement are most likely different than the Army while escorting cash etc....I know from my time in Dundalk that we were told if 'it hit's the fan' forget the rules and fire!!

    I clearly remember being told fire until the target drops or if a vehicle keep firing till you have to move out of its way!!

    Sad thing if they were killed the guards would be hounded by 'did they need to fire' ****e that always pops up!

    In my eyes its simple, if a person pulls a firearm shoot the scumbag!!

    So are we going to continue to moan about arming our police force..this is not a wonderland, its not good Auld Ireland back in the day where you could leave your front door open and still keep your belongings!!

    The law is the law and if you break it and get caught tough ****!!

    *** Please do not mention tonight's news...keep it separate***
    Stained Class wrote: »
    As long as there's the generous levels of Social Welfare in this country, there will always be an underclass with an endless sense of entitlement without putting in hard work.

    Some families now are on their 4th or 5th generation of living off the State.

    Not much hope of getting any of them to do anything useful, untill their 'entitlements' (or goolies) are cut off.

    What has your anti-social welfare recipients rant got to do with the OP???


  • #53
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    dave1982 wrote: »
    Can you explain why they're not being robbed as often?


    Numerous changes

    GPS tracking to all vans

    Remote control

    Dye released to the cash on the press of a button

    Securicor were forced to impement changes during the time off all the tiger raids


  • #54
    KwackerJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭KwackerJack


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    For those against arming the police force to tackle armed gangs or allowing people defend themselves in their home. What is your solution? What would you do with these people who have no hesitation killing you.

    Maybe they will explain they have no weapons and asked them to come in for tea...they may just let you live after they rob you blind But hey at least we didn't fight back :rolleyes:


  • #55
    KwackerJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭KwackerJack


    sfwcork wrote: »
    Numerous changes

    GPS tracking to all vans

    Remote control

    Dye released to the cash on the press of a button

    Securicor were forced to impement changes during the time off all the tiger raids

    Then why the Army??

    If its man made its man broken.......They simply wont chance it as they may not even get near the van!!

    Next time you see an Army escort look up!


  • #56
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,955 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    orestes wrote: »
    Serious question - I'm just asking because people on the thread are calling for the gardai to be armed in response to this tragic event, but including this incident how often is a member of the gardai shot in the line of duty?

    The loss of one Garda's life in the line of duty is quite simply one too many


  • #57
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    For those against arming the police force to tackle armed gangs or allowing people defend themselves in their home. What is your solution? What would you do with these people who have no hesitation killing you.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo


  • #58
    dave1982
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭dave1982


    Being honest and I'm no armed robber but the only problem I see in that list is Dye being released on the money, which I'm sure there must be some way around it or people would not be robbing the vans.

    Dye and the fact the army are there with guns should be enough of a deterrent.

    These assholes still done this robbery knowing the guards and army were warned were armed.

    At least I think they are armed anyway.


    Sadly we are reading that a Guard doing his job is Dead and these pricks are in hiding.


    They will probably get off lightly what did Gerry McCabes killer serve 12-15 years for shooting a Guard sitting in his car


  • #59
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    It was a cash in transit robbery, it was a robbery of a credit union.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2013/0126/1224329307077.html


  • #60
    franktheplank
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭franktheplank


    Nylah Wailing Truth wrote: »
    I suspect that's what the criminals will think once the police are armed, leading to more deaths in the force.

    Could end up with this kinda outlook...



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  • #61
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,622 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    sfwcork wrote: »
    Op can you give examles of where your theory work

    Cops in the Us and Uk are armed.Thats certainly not deterring crime nw is it

    Cops in the UK aren't armed except for in Northern Ireland.


This discussion has been closed.
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