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Sam Maguire 2013

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13567…10

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    #62
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,399 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    keane2097 wrote: »
    I thought at the time that Kerry and Cork both approached the games against Donegal all wrong and that having actually played them will stand to them big time if they were to meet again. If semi-finals were a two legged affair I definitely think Cork would have come out on top in a second game.

    If Donegal manage to adjust this year as much as they did last year without losing their effectiveness all bets off obv.

    Funnily enough, Dublin already showed how to beat Donegal, i.e. don't play into their hands when they defend in numbers by throwing players forward and allowing them ridiculously simple counter-attacks. Keeping your own defensive shape is paramount.

    I couldn't believe how naieve Cork were against Donegal in that second half. Cork pushed forward in numbers slowly, left very few defenders at home to mind the house. When the ball was turned over which it invariably was, 5 or 6 Donegal lads just sprinted forward and left Cork at 6's and 7's and then the likes of Lacey just picked off simple scores.

    I'm not sure Dublin's game plan would have beaten Donegal last year though. Donegal were very impotent in attack in 2011 and their counter attacking was miles off what it was in 2012. There is no way they would have scored just 6 points against Dublin in 2012.

    I think Kerry had a good crack of Donegal and I'm not sure they could have done any better. Maybe a bit more luck.


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    #63
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭davegrohl48


    I had a look again at Cork, Kerry and Mayo games. Y'know I'd favour man marking Lacy with a nippy back. He was that instrumental especially in the Mayo game.
    - He was the prime link man from his own 45 to the oppositions 45
    - His passing was top drawer with foot, sending accurate ball 30/40 yards forward into dangerous areas
    - He setup the first goal (Neil Gallagher tried the same pass 30 seconds before Lacy but didn't have Lacys accuracy)
    There was good performances from other backs including Mark McHugh but nothing that was as game changing as him. It would be interesting to see Donegal with a shackled Lacy, no one has done it yet but someone is bound to try it this season.


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    #64
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,789 ✭✭✭corny


    robbiezero wrote: »
    I couldn't believe how naieve Cork were against Donegal in that second half. Cork pushed forward in numbers slowly, left very few defenders at home to mind the house. When the ball was turned over which it invariably was, 5 or 6 Donegal lads just sprinted forward and left Cork at 6's and 7's and then the likes of Lacey just picked off simple scores.

    I'm not sure Dublin's game plan would have beaten Donegal last year though. Donegal were very impotent in attack in 2011 and their counter attacking was miles off what it was in 2012. There is no way they would have scored just 6 points against Dublin in 2012.

    I think Kerry had a good crack of Donegal and I'm not sure they could have done any better. Maybe a bit more luck.

    They'd have conceded more too. 14 men behind the ball at all times reduced Dublin to 8 points. Donegal attacked with more numbers last year thats true but its only logical to assume they left more space as a result. Therein lies the key. Simply put they break up your attacks which is almost inevitable, either you break up theirs or you lose. Dublin, in 2011, were not found wanting when it came to organised defence. They had 6 defenders marking thin air against Donegal but they didn't cross the halfway and get sucked in.

    Who would win is pure speculation at this stage but i think the premise is sound as a more effective way of playing Donegals system.


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    #65
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,399 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    corny wrote: »
    They'd have conceded more too. 14 men behind the ball at all times reduced Dublin to 8 points. Donegal attacked with more numbers last year thats true but its only logical to assume they left more space as a result. Therein lies the key. Simply put they break up your attacks which is almost inevitable, either you break up theirs or you lose. Dublin, in 2011, were not found wanting when it came to organised defence. They had 6 defenders marking thin air against Donegal but they didn't cross the halfway and get sucked in.

    Who would win is pure speculation at this stage but i think the premise is sound as a more effective way of playing Donegals system.

    I agree. I hope they meet this year. Would be a great battle. Two mature teams at their peak. When they met in 2011 Donegal were not quite the force they were last year so it would be very hard to call a winner if they meet this year assuming Dublin get back up to their 2011 level which I think they will.


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    #66
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    corny wrote: »
    They'd have conceded more too. 14 men behind the ball at all times reduced Dublin to 8 points. Donegal attacked with more numbers last year thats true but its only logical to assume they left more space as a result. Therein lies the key. Simply put they break up your attacks which is almost inevitable, either you break up theirs or you lose. Dublin, in 2011, were not found wanting when it came to organised defence. They had 6 defenders marking thin air against Donegal but they didn't cross the halfway and get sucked in.

    Who would win is pure speculation at this stage but i think the premise is sound as a more effective way of playing Donegals system.

    Yet Donegal were only a kick of a ball away from going 5 points up just after half time, an insurmountable lead IMO. Still, whether Dublin over came them or not, Kerry would have beaten them in the final, there just wasn't enough attacking threat to win an AI.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #67
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    davegrohl48 wrote: »
    I had a look again at Cork, Kerry and Mayo games. Y'know I'd favour man marking Lacy with a nippy back. He was that instrumental especially in the Mayo game.
    - He was the prime link man from his own 45 to the oppositions 45
    - His passing was top drawer with foot, sending accurate ball 30/40 yards forward into dangerous areas
    - He setup the first goal (Neil Gallagher tried the same pass 30 seconds before Lacy but didn't have Lacys accuracy)
    There was good performances from other backs including Mark McHugh but nothing that was as game changing as him. It would be interesting to see Donegal with a shackled Lacy, no one has done it yet but someone is bound to try it this season.

    Lacey has always been targeted, most noticeably against Dublin last year and Mayo in the All Ireland.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #68
    davegrohl48
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭davegrohl48


    He got a bit of physical attention on two incidents. But overall he was not man marked against Mayo. I mean staying with him for the full game only breaking from that duty if you win posession and even then quickly passing the ball on.


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    #69
    InchicoreDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    I saw Tyrone a few times in last years league and they really impressed me then. I felt they had an outside chance of making an impact last year and had a small sneaky bet on them to go all the way. But that didnt work out....Perhaps it was a year too soon for them though. I will be keeping a close eye on them in this years league too.

    But at the moment, I think Donegal can retain this title. I would rank them just ahead of Dublin & Cork. Kerry will be interesting with new management, fresh ideas.

    There wont be any other team involved though.


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    #70
    shiibata
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,277 ✭✭✭shiibata


    Hard to see past Kerry, Cork, Dublin and hopefully Donegal..
    If had to pick one, would probably go for the Dubs to win it next year, they should be rejuvenated under the new management and that could be the difference.
    For an outsider, am gonna go for a team not mentioned yet, Derry, prob will have to have the run through the back door though..


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    #71
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,125 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    InchicoreDude wrote: »
    I saw Tyrone a few times in last years league and they really impressed me then. I felt they had an outside chance of making an impact last year and had a small sneaky bet on them to go all the way. But that didnt work out....Perhaps it was a year too soon for them though. I will be keeping a close eye on them in this years league too.

    But at the moment, I think Donegal can retain this title. I would rank them just ahead of Dublin & Cork. Kerry will be interesting with new management, fresh ideas.

    There wont be any other team involved though.

    Could easily win Ulster, depending on how focused they are on beating Donegal and how focused Donegal are, it will be a great early season game.

    Depending on the QF draw they could very well find themselves in a SF


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    #72
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,125 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    manofwisdom wrote: »
    Kerry didn't look like All Ireland contenders in 2009 when Cork hammered them in Munster and struggled past Longford,Sligo,Antrim in the qualifiers.

    Huge difference between the 2009 team and the possible 2013 team.


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    #73
    Tom Joad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Could easily win Ulster, depending on how focused they are on beating Donegal and how focused Donegal are, it will be a great early season game.

    Depending on the QF draw they could very well find themselves in a SF

    Do not underestimate how focussed they are on this game - everything in Tyrone football is geared towards this. They are training like animals and a singlemindedness that is frightening from what I'm told. They also pulled all their college players for the McKenna cup. With Sean Cavanagh back fully fit they are a serious prospect again.

    It's going to be some game between themselves and Donegal..


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    #74
    mono_mac
    Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭mono_mac


    Keep your eyes on.monaghan


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    #75
    Tom Joad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    Monaghan going well by all accounts, should have a good league campaign - most difficult game out of the way first, on the right side of the draw in ulster, should beat Antrim, Armagh or Cavan in a semi - both well beatable - so theres a not too difficult path to an Ulster final, good qualifier draw and could be a very good year. Only thing is that its a very small panel - is there any new talent coming through from underage??


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    #76
    Tom Joad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    While on the subject of Monaghan, I've seen Jack McCarron play a few years ago and thought he would have made breakthrough on senior team by now or is he playing with a college?


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    #77
    Always_Running
    Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    Jack McCarron is playing away with DCU and performing well.


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    #78
    Tom Joad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    Always_Running wrote: »
    Jack McCarron is playing away with DCU and performing well.

    Ah ok that explains that - shows he's a decent prospect if he can get a game with DCU..


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    #79
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,125 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Out of interest here are the latest odds for 2013 from Paddy Power

    Kerry 7/2
    Dublin 7/2
    Donegal 4/1
    Cork 4/1
    Mayo 10/1

    Which comapres with these on 28/11

    Donegal 10/3
    Cork - 7/2
    Kerry 4/1
    Dublin 4/1
    Mayo 11/1

    I am really suprised that Kerry have come in by half a point.
    If Dublin beat them on Sunday then I can image a major swing towards Dublin.


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    #80
    DARK-KNIGHT
    Registered Users Posts: 10,210 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Out of interest here are the latest odds for 2013 from Paddy Power

    Kerry 7/2
    Dublin 7/2
    Donegal 4/1
    Cork 4/1
    Mayo 10/1

    Which comapres with these on 28/11

    Donegal 10/3
    Cork - 7/2
    Kerry 4/1
    Dublin 4/1
    Mayo 11/1

    I am really suprised that Kerry have come in by half a point.
    If Dublin beat them on Sunday then I can image a major swing towards Dublin.
    Mayo only value for money bet there imo


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    #81
    DARK-KNIGHT
    Registered Users Posts: 10,210 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Out of interest here are the latest odds for 2013 from Paddy Power

    Kerry 7/2
    Dublin 7/2
    Donegal 4/1
    Cork 4/1
    Mayo 10/1

    Which comapres with these on 28/11

    Donegal 10/3
    Cork - 7/2
    Kerry 4/1
    Dublin 4/1
    Mayo 11/1

    I am really suprised that Kerry have come in by half a point.
    If Dublin beat them on Sunday then I can image a major swing towards Dublin.
    Tyrone 16-1
    Kildare 22-1


    I would be more tempted with the next best odds. Two decent sides and hey it's championship football


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    #82
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,125 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »
    Tyrone 16-1
    Kildare 22-1


    I would be more tempted with the next best odds. Two decent sides and hey it's championship football

    The other 5 would really have to have catastrophic years to allow any of those two in to win it, but they may be good e\w bets


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    #83
    cormac halpin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭cormac halpin


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    The other 5 would really have to have catastrophic years to allow any of those two in to win it, but they may be good e\w bets
    Tyrone may be worth a sniff at that given the talent, manager and history, but you're right with regards to about 7 other sides needing to bomb out completely to allow the other bet to come in, even at an e/w.


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    #84
    tacofries
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭tacofries


    we'l know after the tyrone match if mayo will have it in them to go all the way!! (I hope they do :D)


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    #85
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,069 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    I think Cork mighty as well be 40/1 for Sam this year.

    I give us no chance.


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    #86
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,399 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Kerry favourites?
    Very strange. Dublin and Donegal should be well ahead of them, probably Cork and Mayo too.
    Donegal are now a good bet. Odds moved out based on their game with Kildare in which they were only back from holiday without much training done, and still pushed Kildare to the pin of their collar.


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    #87
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    robbiezero wrote: »
    Kerry favourites?
    Very strange. Dublin and Donegal should be well ahead of them, probably Cork and Mayo too.
    Donegal are now a good bet. Odds moved out based on their game with Kildare in which they were only back from holiday without much training done, and still pushed Kildare to the pin of their collar.

    The bold bit is not true which should inform a little bit why Kerry's price hasn't changed much in the last six weeks.

    Bookies are not dumb enough to adjust their opinion on who is going to win the All Ireland based on the opening game of the National League, even if many regular joes are (see the laughable move to announce Dublin as favourites by Kevin McStay and other clowns after they beat Louth of all teams last year).

    Individual games early on in the year have no effect whatsoever on the price.

    All that has happened here is one particular bookie (PP in this case) has decided he has as much money for Kerry on his books as he wants already and has shortened the price to put people off putting any more on them. At the same time, if he shortens one price, he needs to adjust another out to balance his market, which is why Donegal have lengthened.


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    #88
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,069 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    robbiezero wrote: »
    Kerry favourites?
    Very strange.     Dublin and Donegal should be well ahead of them, probably Cork and Mayo too.
    Donegal are now a good bet. Odds moved out based on their game with Kildare in which they were only back from holiday without much training done, and still pushed Kildare to the pin of their collar.

    We have all fallen into that trap and left with eggs in our face come end of September.

    There is not many teams better then Kerry at the minute and the fact that some fear Kerry the way they do then they will always be there abouts.


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    #89
    DARK-KNIGHT
    Registered Users Posts: 10,210 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    Throw of a hat who will lift Sam there really isn't any difference in top teams and either way championship football etc. also a lot has to do with who hits form like Donegal did last year..

    From a betting point of view ill be throwing 20 kildares way 20 at Tyrone and 15 on mayo..

    Not worth backing any other teams odds are stupidly short..


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    #90
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,789 ✭✭✭corny


    DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »
    Mayo only value for money bet there imo

    At this stage Mayo are huge at 10/1 imo.

    They're probably the only top side i'd be certain will perform this year; the rest have legitimate questions to answer. Don't know if thats good enough or not but Dublin and Donegal proved in consecutive years there's nothing like an agonising defeat to build the following years campaign.


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    #91
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,399 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    corny wrote: »
    At this stage Mayo are huge at 10/1 imo.

    They're probably the only top side i'd be certain will perform this year; the rest have legitimate questions to answer. Don't know if thats good enough or not but Dublin and Donegal proved in consecutive years there's nothing like an agonising defeat to build the following years campaign.

    Great price.
    At the moment I would only put Dublin and Donegal ahead of them, and they have proven to be able for Dublin on the big day and as of yet we don't really know if Donegal will hit the heights of last year.

    For me, Mayo have at least as good a chance as Kerry and Cork if not more.


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