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Are most people non racist in public but actually racist in private.

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Comments

  • #302
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    I am against discrimination period.


    So you think the RUC/PSNI should have been left as essentially a unionist institution? That there should be no measures taken to remedy discrimination in hiring practices in companies etc?


  • #303
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Nodin wrote: »
    So you think the RUC/PSNI should have been left as essentially a unionist institution? That there should be no measures taken to remedy discrimination in hiring practices in companies etc?

    I would argue for redressing the balance in a different way.
    When setting up the new police force applicants when interviewed would not be permitted to make mention of their religious or political persausions, as that has no bearing on ones ability to be a good policeperson, and selection be done solely on aptitude for the position and not on religion.


  • #304
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    I would argue for redressing the balance in a different way.
    When setting up the new police force applicants when interviewed would not be permitted to make mention of their religious or political persausions, as that has no bearing on ones ability to be a good policeperson, and selection be done solely on aptitude for the position and not on religion.

    ....there's a number of ways to have a fairly accurate guess at somebodys religion in the north, address and name first amongst them.


  • #305
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....there's a number of ways to have a fairly accurate guess at somebodys religion in the north, address and name first amongst them.

    Yeah, point accepted. But now the unionists think the police has been taken over by the nationalist community, hence their rioting. I still believe that the religion of a policeperson is irrelevant to how they do their job. And what about the atheists and moslems, Jews, Hindu's? How many of them should be employed?


  • #306
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    Yeah, point accepted. But now the unionists think the police has been taken over by the nationalist community, hence their rioting. I still believe that the religion of a policeperson is irrelevant to how they do their job. And what about the atheists and moslems, Jews, Hindu's? How many of them should be employed?


    So to stop a community rioting, its best to carry on with institutional discrimination? Had they taken this attitude in the American south, black people would still be drinking out of seperate fountains.


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  • #307
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Nodin wrote: »
    So to stop a community rioting, its best to carry on with institutional discrimination? Had they taken this attitude in the American south, black people would still be drinking out of seperate fountains.

    Don't twist my words. I did not say or imply that institutional discrimination should be continued as a policy. I said it should imo be addressed in a different manner. And the evidence in the north suggests that positive discrimination has not been a complete success and could have possibly been more successful if addressed differently.


  • #308
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    Don't twist my words. I did not say or imply that institutional discrimination should be continued as a policy. I said it should imo be addressed in a different manner. And the evidence in the north suggests that positive discrimination has not been a complete success and could have possibly been more successful if addressed differently.

    ......well, would you care to share the methodology you'd employ then?


  • #309
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Nodin wrote: »
    ......well, would you care to share the methodology you'd employ then?

    I just did, see post 304.


  • #310
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    I just did, see post 304.


    Yes, it wouldn't work, for reasons explained.


  • #311
    Smiles35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    Yeah, point accepted. But now the unionists think the police has been taken over by the nationalist community, hence their rioting.

    Where did you hear this from?


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  • #312
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yes, it wouldn't work, for reasons explained.

    It may or may not work, nobody knows the outcome in advance. They can only speculate. What we do know is your method is not perfect....for reasons explained.


  • #313
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Smell Badda wrote: »
    Where did you hear this from?

    I heard qoutes from the rioters themselves on the news. Also the unionist spokesman Willie Frazer has said that the Nationalists are taking over the north at the expense of the unionists. He said its not a peace process but an appeasement process at the expense of the unionist tradition.
    I don't agree with them by the way. But when you discriminate in favour of one you discriminate against another. Thats the way it is.


  • #314
    Party Supply Van
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭Party Supply Van


    old hippy wrote: »
    The far right has been active in Ireland since (at the very least) the 80s. Hot Press at the time ran an interesting article on how these no hopers would slip their fliers into records sleeves in various independent music outlets in Dublin city centre.

    Total ****e. A couple of nazi skins going around to comet and freebird pushing their agenda down peoples throats. Skins who I may add were despised by the vast vast majority of skins who were just into the music and scene.
    old hippy wrote: »
    There was a protest last year (admittedly only a handful) in Dublin, in support of the woman in London who was charged after her racist rant against fellow train travellers went up on social media.

    What? 4 or 5 people, a couple of who if I remember were from the same family. Is this the best you can do show there is a far right with a racist agenda movement in Ireland. Why even bother to use it as an example.
    old hippy wrote: »
    Aine Ni Chonnail and her ilk deserve to be laughed at but not dismissed. Pretending we don't have a problem isn't the answer and it's in all our interests to stamp out the problem in it's infancy.

    Pretending we do is equally not the answer. What happens if you 'stamp out' something you perceive to be racist but it isn't? Better to be safe than sorry I guess :rolleyes:
    old hippy wrote: »
    If you have a strong stomach, you should check out Ireland's St***front site; in case you think we don't have a problem.

    Smart fella. Sure why not just send out an invite. From a look on there the Ireland section of that site has been locked for a good while. Over what? from a google it seems Irish whites fighting with each other and criticizing other whites. Something which it seems is frowned upon by racists there.
    old hippy wrote: »
    Racism exists amongst all peoples, of all different colours and nationalities. I have never said otherwise. Your attempts to claim otherwise are baseless.

    We're all special, a chara. Keep that in mind when trying to obfuscate the problem of racism.

    There is no far right like the BNP in Ireland. Why? because a party like that would never gain traction with the Irish mindset. We just don't do racism like you might like to think. And yes we are all special, all human, I just can't stand idly by while you are constantly trying to paint my country and its people with the racist brush. And yes, I thought twice about calling you out on this again because I know the backlash will be time consuming and ultimately futile in the race to get the last word in.

    Namaste mo chara.


  • #315
    brokenarms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭brokenarms


    I have lived in NY for a few years and it was a big wake up to real racism .
    Generally I found the Irish there to be racist to everyone .
    But I also found the the Asian , Jewish and Spanish communities to also be heavily racist . And the most racist of all was the African american community .
    I lived in France for year also and found the French to be down right proud of their believe that they are the best.

    It really is just normal for people to consider there own better than the next.


    Its the exact same here.

    But what I do find strange in Ireland is the amount of anti Irish from Irish people
    If you identify a problem you might have from a foreign culture, the anti Irish do good er community start sharpening their blades.

    Makes you wonder how we would do if the world ever came to world war, of a senanio where we would have to defend or our shores.

    People here are expected to be 100% accepting to everyone for some strange reason. A hard task as 15 years ago there was very little in the way of European and African population in our towns. But I believe Us , the Irish, have been very excepting in general .
    But at heart. Personally. Im very proud to be 100% born and ask members , is it wrong to think we are better than the next culture. I think not. We are better . The Irish are a great bunch. So I must be racist.


  • #316
    Smiles35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    I heard qoutes from the rioters themselves on the news. Also the unionist spokesman Willie Frazer has said that the Nationalists are taking over the north at the expense of the unionists. He said its not a peace process but an appeasement process at the expense of the unionist tradition.
    I don't agree with them by the way. But when you discriminate in favour of one you discriminate against another. Thats the way it is.
    Not for me it's not. I'm tired of ''mo charas'' messing with my head from up north.


  • #317
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Smell Badda wrote: »
    Not for me it's not. I'm tired of ''mo charas'' messing with my head from up north.

    I'm not from up north and your head is no concern of mine. If you are tired log out and get some sleep.


  • #318
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    It may or may not work, nobody knows the outcome in advance. They can only speculate. .......

    No, because we know that there was institutional discrimination, and we know that there are a number of ways to determine religous affiliation.


  • #319
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    I heard qoutes from the rioters themselves on the news. Also the unionist spokesman Willie Frazer has said that the Nationalists are taking over the north at the expense of the unionists. He said its not a peace process but an appeasement process at the expense of the unionist tradition.
    I don't agree with them by the way. But when you discriminate in favour of one you discriminate against another. Thats the way it is.


    If you don't agree with them why do you add "when you discriminate in favour of one you discriminate against another"?


  • #320
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Party Supply Van wrote: »
    There is no far right like the BNP in Ireland. Why? because a party like that would never gain traction with the Irish mindset. We just don't do racism like you might like to think. And yes we are all special, all human, I just can't stand idly by while you are constantly trying to paint my country and its people with the racist brush. And yes, I thought twice about calling you out on this again because I know the backlash will be time consuming and ultimately futile in the race to get the last word in.

    Namaste mo chara.

    My Ireland and my experiences are not your Ireland and your experiences.

    Sad to say but we do have a racist problem in Ireland as has been pointed out for quite some time now, a chara.

    Sorry but I can't stand by idly whilst you add to the problem by burying your head in the sand.


  • #321
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    old hippy wrote: »
    My Ireland and my experiences are not your Ireland and your experiences.

    Sad to say but we do have a racist problem in Ireland as has been pointed out for quite some time now, a chara.

    Sorry but I can't stand by idly whilst you add to the problem by burying your head in the sand.

    Same here; afraid I can't stand idly by and watch the reality of racism being deliberately ignored. Only last month I saw some racist graffiti near where I live.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #322
    Chinasea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭Chinasea


    And of course there is this recently released report that clearly identifies pure and utter discrimination in Ireland.

    ESRI: Black Africans report highest levels of discrimination

    http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=3662


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0116/esri-immigrants.html


    TBH: There were other links also, but the comments were so disgusting and shameful I would not link.


  • #323
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Nodin wrote: »
    If you don't agree with them why do you add "when you discriminate in favour of one you discriminate against another"?

    Because if you give one part of society privileges that are not given universally to another part, then the section that have been given privileges have been favoured over the section that has not been given those same privileges. It's not rocket science.


  • #324
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    Because if you give one part of society privileges that are not given universally to another part, then the section that have been given privileges have been favoured over the section that has not been given those same privileges. It's not rocket science.

    This might be a shock to you, but being prportionally represented in the work force etc is not a "privilege".


  • #325
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    Chinasea wrote: »
    And of course there is this recently released report that clearly identifies pure and utter discrimination in Ireland.

    ESRI: Black Africans report highest levels of discrimination

    http://www.esri.ie/publications/latest_publications/view/index.xml?id=3662


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0116/esri-immigrants.html


    TBH: There were other links also, but the comments were so disgusting and shameful I would not link.

    Ah yes, correlation = causation of course.


  • #326
    Chinasea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭Chinasea


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    Ah yes, correlation = causation of course.

    Meaning?


  • #327
    cosbloodymick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 191 ✭✭cosbloodymick


    Nodin wrote: »
    This might be a shock to you, but being prportionally represented in the work force etc is not a "privilege".

    Yes it is if it is forced.
    If it is decided that any job vacancy should be filled not by the best person for that job but on that persons ethnicity or religion. Then the best person for the job has been discriminated against and the person given the job on the basis of their ethnicity or religion has been privileged.


  • #328
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    Chinasea wrote: »
    Meaning?

    Meaning that citing that report as evidence of discrimination is unmitigated bullsh*t

    Black Africans often come here as asylum seekers so cannot work. Their education levels are on average lower than the native Irish. They are culturally different eg Irish mother's are more likely to be in employment. Lot of black Africans are self employed as taxi drivers, and service staff in toilets in pubs/clubs.

    So the fact that they are 4 times more unlikely to be unemployed is likely a correlation to the above rather than massive discrimination


  • #329
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    cosbloodymick wrote: »
    Yes it is if it is forced.
    If it is decided that any job vacancy should be filled not by the best person for that job but on that persons ethnicity or religion. Then the best person for the job has been discriminated against and the person given the job on the basis of their ethnicity or religion has been privileged.


    Seeing as their absence is a result of "force" it has to be righted by active measures. You can't even come up with a feasible way to get around the problem up north, let alone where race is an issue....


  • #330
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    Meaning that citing that report as evidence of discrimination is unmitigated bullsh*t

    Black Africans often come here as asylum seekers so cannot work. Their education levels are on average lower than the native Irish. They are culturally different eg Irish mother's are more likely to be in employment. Lot of black Africans are self employed as taxi drivers, and service staff in toilets in pubs/clubs.

    So the fact that they are 4 times more unlikely to be unemployed is likely a correlation to the above rather than massive discrimination


    If they're here as asylum seekers, they won't be listed on the unemployed register, afaik.


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  • #331
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    Meaning that citing that report as evidence of discrimination is unmitigated bullsh*t

    Black Africans often come here as asylum seekers so cannot work. Their education levels are on average lower than the native Irish. They are culturally different eg Irish mother's are more likely to be in employment. Lot of black Africans are self employed as taxi drivers, and service staff in toilets in pubs/clubs.

    So the fact that they are 4 times more unlikely to be unemployed is likely a correlation to the above rather than massive discrimination
    Evidence for that RACIST remark please.
    Obviously you didn't bother to read the report or you wouldn't have posted such ignorant gibberish.


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