Just how often do women come onto men vs the other way round?

maxitwist · 16-01-2013 2:51pm #1

I dont think, okay i know its definetly not in equal proportions, But I wonder how big the split is?
I did a quick search on this and alot of women (i can only assume they were women) say something along the lines of 'some ultraconfident women would make the first move, but not me'
To this id have to say ehm.. I'm a man, im not ultraconfident.. but i still have to make the first move. Because otherwise (especially by this logic) id never get anywhere.
But im not here to whine about how unfair and unequal and old-fashioned this is (whining is un-becoming in a man

)

Im here to get some estimates as to how often people think women come onto men and how often men come onto women.

The thing that got me thinking about this is that my girlfriend told me that last week someone sat beside her on the bus and asked for her number before he got off, coincidentaly that is how i met her aswell, but I was rather surprised, I dont think a stranger has ever just started talking to me on the bus! I mean busses are horrible places to initiate conversation, theyre too cramped, theres too many bored people sitting within earshot looking for something entertaining to eavesdrop on. You really do have to be feeling confident to make a move on one.

So is that All It comes down to? Are women simply less confident than men? I really wouldnt have thought so, and i see no reason why they should be in modern society.
Or is it more of an excuse, that you know somewhere a man will make the first move, thus saving you from ever having to take the risk?

I think in total I have had maybe 3 women initaite conversation with me with the intent of anything more than answering a question!
So my own percieved ratio of how often men come onto women vs women onto men in Ireland would be estimated at a staggering
95%men 5%women.
Whats yours?

I think that my own ration has something to do with me personally, i dont go out much, definetly not to standard places where people my age go to get off with eachother (im 20)
But i talk to people during the day, I'm nice, and somewhat occasionally charming. I do think it a pity that women never come up and talk to me though

I'm cute arent I? :rolleyes:

One Last question: Do you think the split is particularly uneven in ireland vs oter countries?

ash23 · 16-01-2013 5:51pm

Hmmm, I've made the first move a number of times and had the moves made on me a number of times. I'd say personally the split was maybe 70% him making the move and 30% me making the move.

In my experience, me making the move has been an unmitigated disaster.

But of all the times a guy has made his move on me, about 40% of the time I've orchestrated it by standing near him or walking past him etc etc.

Women make the move as much as men I think. We just tend to let them think they are the ones making the moves

lazygal · 16-01-2013 5:59pm

Me making the first move, or my female friends doing so, has never worked. My now husband did all the chasing at the start and it worked better for us than when I tried chasing the guy. Totally not PC but I don't know of any couples where the woman pursued the man and it worked out.

seenitall · 16-01-2013 6:20pm

^^ Agree with ash23 and lazygal. I have been single for a long time now (a few years) and, since I'm pretty picky as regards men these days, and fairly confident socially all said, I have been initiating with men more and more recently again. It's a disaster.

What I mean by initiating is, usually after meeting in a social group, liking someone, getting to know them, and then, slowly or quickly, "vibes"/chemistry, laughs, good times and flirtation develop on subsequent group nights out. So then I ask a guy out, for example. And fall flat on my face.

It just happened there before Christmas again.

The one thing I have to console myself with is that the calibre of the guy I choose to go for is such that they are always perfect gentlemen and very kind about turning me down, so that's something that kind of keeps me going.

I think Irish guys are fairly conservative when it comes to these things, sure they talk a good talk about how nice it is to have a woman initiate, but in practice it's a whole different kettle of fish. At least in my experience.

There was a thread about this in the TGC not so long ago, I posted there as well, saying I don't do that any more, but heck, if I didn't, nothing would be happening either way! :pac: At least it's something to do. So you plough on and hope for the best.

Wibbs · 16-01-2013 7:28pm

Looking back *cue harp music* at my relationships it would have been slightly more of the women who instigated the first move. When I was younger I was often completely oblivious to indirect "moves", to a near comical degree, so they kinda had to. Oh some stories I could tell of my dribbling daftness...

:D

There was a general gender split alright in the type of first move, with generally me being more direct and women being more indirect but nearly as obvious. Even then one or two were the direct "do you want to go for drinks/dinner" and on my side one or two were me being indirect as ash23 describes where I orchestrated it such that it ended up being obvious. Looking around mates I'd say mostly the same ratio went down and I can think of two couples still going strong where the woman made the first move(in one case most of the chasing too).

seenitall wrote:

I think Irish guys are fairly conservative when it comes to these things, sure they talk a good talk about how nice it is to have a woman initiate, but in practice it's a whole different kettle of fish. At least in my experience.

Aye there does seem to be a cultural thing at play. Though I'd say Irish guys would be better than say many Latin cultures. I've found north Americans and Aussies would be more easy going(judging by what women mates have said anyway).

cantdecide · 16-01-2013 9:44pm

I think a guy and a girl of a similar ilk will, a lot of the time 'get it together' eventually, more often than not. Maybe one of them has figured out that it's inevitable ahead of the other or there are some reasons of maybe baggage, say, that stops one or the other from running headlong into something but IME, two people, appropriately attracted to each other and of a similar ilk at a similar stage of life and/ or mindset will get it together.

If the girl is reluctant but the stakes are high for the guy, and I mean that he knows this could be something special, generally, he will chase. If the guy is reluctant, all too often, the girl won't chase which is a shame, IMO. I always believe that you have a duty to yourself to be happy and move toward the things that will make you happy and I think it's sad when people let things get in the way.

In the pub/ club scenario where no one knows each other and it's all based on visuals, the stakes are quite low. Someone might jump out but it's anyone's guess as to whether someone you have your eye on is, in any way, on the same page as you so it's all that bit lighter, right? So you would expect things to be a bit more fair but nevertheless, the lads do most of the chasing here too.

Personally, I've given up chasing girls in bars lately. I just don't fit the profile and hell, it's difficult to meet a nice girls IRL. I've also never had the pleasure of being approached by a lady but I can assure you there are guys out there that would admire a girl who would take the initiative all the more for doing so.

coffee_cake · 16-01-2013 9:49pm

I've done the chasing as much as otherwise. Find it strange when women outright refuse to try
Sure there's always rejection involved for both genders

beks101 · 16-01-2013 11:28pm

Generally I'll just flirt unashamedly with the guy and hope that the penny drops and he's interested.

I've been the intiator a few times, asked a few guys out, never suffered blatant rejection or anything, but in most of those cases it evolved into me being in the driver's seat indefinitely, which I found uncomfortable and confusing.

In those cases I'd find myself wondering if he actually liked me or was just taking what fell into his lap.

Maybe that's a reflection on my own insecurities, but it's never been the right basis on which to start a relationship for me. I need to feel wanted; I need to feel like he's bothered enough to take the reigns at some point and not leave me guessing.

johnr1 · 16-01-2013 11:31pm

I think men and women chase differently. Guys (usually) chase all the time whether mildly interested in a hookup or massively interested in a relationship. Its what convention and tradition dictate. We chase people we consider more attractive than us, at our "level" and less attractive than us, usually with slightly different goals.

Gals on the other hand tend to chase when extremely interested as opposed to when they are just looking for a hookup. To be fair, if they just want a hookup and aren't too picky about who, then chasing isnt necessary for them given that there are plenty guys chasing for the same result.
Because of our innate instinct to "marry up" whether up = looks or status or wealth or intelligence, both sexes when looking for a long termer will chase someone they perceive to be higher on whatever scale they deem important than themselves. Success is tougher to achieve in these circumstances, and therefore more valuable.

Tldr: Guys chase more with better success rates because often the bar of "success" ie what they are looking for, is lower.
Gals chase less, with less success because they are usually chasing the top prizes.

Jesus ! Thats a long post to explain a short point, which may not even be correct....

.

seenitall · 16-01-2013 11:44pm

johnr1 wrote: »

Tldr: Guys chase more with better success rates because often the bar of "success" ie what they are looking for, is lower.
Gals chase less, with less success because they are usually chasing the top prizes.

Hiya johnr1

,

Yeah, I think you've got it there in a nutshell, at least for me as a 'gal' (lol, don't know why, but 'gal' makes me think of those 1940's Hollywood flicks with Rosalind Russell/Barbara Stanwyck and Cary Grant...) that's how I (conveniently) see it.

cantdecide · 17-01-2013 12:07am

beks101 wrote: »

I've been the intiator a few times, asked a few guys out, never suffered blatant rejection or anything, but in most of those cases it evolved into me being in the driver's seat indefinitely, which I found uncomfortable and confusing.

In those cases I'd find myself wondering if he actually liked me or was just taking what fell into his lap.

Maybe that's a reflection on my own insecurities,

I think it's possible if you're coming on strong in the beginning that they think you wish to remain in the driver's seat. If you start letting up, this could easily be seen as you losing interest in them. Just a thought.

beks101 · 17-01-2013 1:47am

cantdecide wrote: »

I think it's possible if you're coming on strong in the beginning that they think you wish to remain in the driver's seat. If you start letting up, this could easily be seen as you losing interest in them. Just a thought.

Hmm, interesting, never quite thought about it like that.

I've always just sort of worked off the theory that if someone really likes you, give them an inch and they'll take a mile type thing - if you're the one who puts yourself out there by asking them out, you're pretty obviously signalling your interest and that should be the confidence boost they need to pursue you as things go forward.

In reality, the absolute fear of rejection everyone experiences by being the initiator, coupled with a lack of positive reinforcement (you have to continue to do the asking, the texting first etc) - will just leave you insecure and convinced he's just not bothered.

I guess when you've been around the dating block you tend to become a bit black-or-white about it - if he's bothered, he'll act bothered. If not, he won't. Though maybe he'll keep responding to you if you continue to do the chasing because hey, it's on a plate for him, why not?

cantdecide · 17-01-2013 2:26am

beks101 wrote: »

I guess when you've been around the dating block you tend to become a bit black-or-white about it - if he's bothered, he'll act bothered. If not, he won't.

By and large, yes. You can't rule out the fact that there might be issues of signals being misinterpreted or not being given. If you've shown someone an open door and they won't walk through, what more can you do? As I get older I just believe more and more in talking. If I like someone, I won't leave it to chance that it may fall between the stools. If I feel I'm doing all the work, I'll convey it in an appropriate but clear way and it's up to them to respond or not.

beks101 wrote: »

maybe he'll keep responding to you if you continue to do the chasing because hey, it's on a plate for him, why not?

Let them think what he wants. If someone chooses to treat you like a piece of meat then it only betrays his lack of quality rather than blaming yourself for doing something wrong. Sometimes the bad ones are cleverly disguised as the good ones so you just have to be very careful about how you choose.

mackg · 17-01-2013 2:40am

ash23 wrote: »

Hmmm, I've made the first move a number of times and had the moves made on me a number of times. I'd say personally the split was maybe 70% him making the move and 30% me making the move.

In my experience, me making the move has been an unmitigated disaster.

But of all the times a guy has made his move on me, about 40% of the time I've orchestrated it by standing near him or walking past him etc etc.

Women make the move as much as men I think. We just tend to let them think they are the ones making the moves

Just going by the bold part it doesn't seem like you did much. Unless you're leaving out important stuff like making eye contact and smiling then I'd go as far as to say you did nothing.

ash23 · 17-01-2013 10:28am

mackg wrote: »

Just going by the bold part it doesn't seem like you did much. Unless you're leaving out important stuff like making eye contact and smiling then I'd go as far as to say you did nothing.

Well yeah obviously, I meant giving him signals to show him I was approachable. looking over etc. But I think moving closer to someone that you have spotted in a bar and are attracted to is a move - they notice you when you walk over and if they're interested then they might strike up a conversation. Walking past someone a few times a night also gives them an opportunity.

It's not so much about making a move as giving them an opportunity. As opposed to making a move which for me is walking directly over to someone and striking up a conversation or asking someone I've met out on a date.

My current fella thinks he pulled me. He didn't. I had decided I was going to "get" him before he even knew I was there

openup · 17-01-2013 11:41am

I think it's got a lot to do with have we've been moulded by society, cutlure, media etc.
I know plenty of guys who are not very confident but have now problem chatting up a girl, but very few girls who would chat up guys even if they are confident to the point of arrogance.
I think being the "active" one in the relationship is just seen as more masculine because that's the way it was almost without exception until, maybe 30 years ago. It's the same as asking why it's usually men who propose.

Though I agree with some people, that women often make moves first, but they tend to be more subtle, like they would probably flirt first but still wait for him to move in for the kiss.

I have never had any success making the first move (though I haven't had massive amounts of luck waiting either :pac:) ...In fact I remember one time I went to kiss this guy I'd been flirting with all night and he pushed me away and got really offended, he kept saying "That's not cool" over and over, very strange.

Itwasntme. · 17-01-2013 12:01pm

People tell me I come across as very confident when in fact, I feel the exact opposite. I don't have the discipline to wait for someone to voice or show their intentions and unless they are blunt, I wouldn't know whether they were interested in me or not. I would always think they want to be friends or something. I am deathly afraid of rejection but I am also the MOST impatient person around. I don't really know how to flirt and I am terrible at sending or reading signals, so I am left with no option but to be blunt when I like someone or it never happens.

Men say they like it when a woman takes initiative but as someone who does it all the time, I think it's only a small few who actually do. The majority I've met don't know how to deal with the role reversal and even when they are interested in return, it starts off the relationship on wobbly grounds in terms of the power balance and this in my experience has never been successful.

Balmed Out · 17-01-2013 12:08pm

I would have thought that the woman makes the first move more often then the man so long as you disregard all attempts that lead to nothing and im not including the whole walking past thing either. I always found that being friendly, flirty and a bit cheecky more often then not would lead to a girl making a move.

Lia_lia · 17-01-2013 7:48pm

I find this thing really weird. My last "relationship" was with a girl. Where neither person is really used to abiding by what the norm is in terms of gender blah blah blah. But I've been scoring a fella now for the first time in a couple of years and I'm finding it very confusing. He is a typical guy, which I'm not used to at all. Well, haven't been for a few years anyway. Keep forgetting that fellas like chasing girls. It's just how it is.

starlit · 17-01-2013 9:27pm

To be honest I think men still do more than women but then again times have changed and the dating rules have changed a bit. In my experience men still do rather than women.

No problem with women doing as well as men. For me I am happy for either way but to be honest I don't think a guy is genuine unless he shows some kind of interest, chat, smile, flirt, something to go on or takes the risk to make the move beyond friendship it has to be from the start otherwise its just friendship, there has to be a connection a little bit of a spark, of course love grows people change but clicking is like a piece of a jigsaw as quoted in Eastenders.

If he makes the effort and chase and not give up I know he likes me but if he doesn't and just stops there then I know he didn't really like me in the first place or that it gets to a stage it gets creepy, I make sure to either let him down gently or make sure he backs off.

Often or not I am always the one who is the option - 2nd best. I've been on both sides of the fence. I suppose I haven't been hit on that much but more successfully than say when I do. When I chase its goes back in my face you wouldn't think it cause I am a girl but it does happen time and time again, I do try to give chances. I've been rejected so rather the guy make the move then less likely to feel rejected but I hate having to reject someone though. Its happened. So finding a mutual and common interest is very difficult to keep things going, often never see each other again. If it wasn't meant to be it wasn't.

Guys like the thrill of the chase don't think that change even if times have changed!

Ah_Yeah · 17-01-2013 10:38pm

I've never had a problem with coming onto men. In fact, I find it easier than waiting for them to make a move because I'm so impatient

Most of my friends are guys so it's always been easy for me to talk to men, and establish a sense of familiarity fairly quickly.

Once I've that done, I tend to let them think everything else is their idea. Even if I approach them first, I do it in a way that they'd still think they won me over. I dont like to generalise but I find that dating a guy works out a lot better when he thinks he has done the work and won me over, even if I've given him a nudge or two

cantdecide · 17-01-2013 10:46pm

doovdela wrote: »

...If he makes the effort and chase and not give up I know he likes me but if he doesn't and just stops there then I know he didn't really like me in the first place!

I always think to myself when I'm unsure 'do I like this girl enough to maybe make a fool of myself chasing her'! I always think if I like her that much, I owe it to myself to find out for sure.

doovdela wrote: »

...Guys like the thrill of the chase don't think that change even if times have changed!

True for a lot of guys and I can only speak for myself but I'm not motivated by that. Not a blokey thing to say but I'm infinitely more motivated by connection rather than the chase.

jaffacakesyum · 17-01-2013 10:54pm

cantdecide wrote: »

True for a lot of guys and I can only speak for myself but I'm not motivated by that. Not a blokey thing to say but I'm infinitely more motivated by connection rather than the chase.

It's definitely true for a lot of guys they like the chase but I just realised I guess there is an equivolent for women. I definitely know some girls who have lost interest once the initial thrill of flirting and dating and "does he like me or not" and playing hard to get etc. is over

cantdecide · 17-01-2013 11:12pm

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

It's definitely true for a lot of guys they like the chase but I just realised I guess there is an equivolent for women. I definitely know some girls who have lost interest once the initial thrill of flirting and dating and "does he like me or not" and playing hard to get etc. is over

Very true.

If someone will take advantage of you or dismiss you because you haven't correctly identified the hoops then it's all a non-starter. But who wants to jump through hoops! I think the important thing is that you do what you do and they do what they do. There are no rules for finding someone you are compatible with. You just have to be careful if you are looking for something meaningful.

17-01-2013 11:30pm

I've done most of the initiating in any relationship/hook up I've ever had, and it's always been successful. I can be pretty tough and hard to read, so ultimately I know I'm a particularly terrifying target for hitting on. So I take the lead. To be fair, I usually wouldn't unless I already got the feeling that the guy liked me, and I wouldn't go up to a stranger and start hitting on him (although I'm the type that needs to know someone before I can really be attracted to them).

Actually I once quite bluntly advised a guy to ask me out, he did, and we were together for 2 and half years and are still great friends. So he technically did the asking, but I'd call myself the instigator there.

As much as I've no problem with asking guys if they're interested, I've a lot of respect for the guys who've been brave enough to approach me. It takes guts.

Rosy Posy · 18-01-2013 12:41am

lazygal wrote: »

Me making the first move, or my female friends doing so, has never worked. My now husband did all the chasing at the start and it worked better for us than when I tried chasing the guy. Totally not PC but I don't know of any couples where the woman pursued the man and it worked out.

I made the first move with my OH and we're together 10 years, married, kids, very happy. I think that if you really like someone you find the confidence to make a move or else they will pass you by. I don't know if he would have ever gotten around to it if I had left it up to him. In saying that they would have to do some of the chasing to show they were interested- a girl has her pride. After the initial "hook up" we didn't do the number thing but I did mention where I would be the next weekend, and when he showed up I let him come to me. There's a fine line between being confident and throwing yourself at someone. You have get good at knowing when someone is interested and when to back off. I think that guys either naturally have or quickly develop a thick skin when it comes to rejection, at least the ones that come on to girls, anyway. That's the thing, girls who don't make the moves still get approached, where as the guys who don't make the moves rarely do....but it's often these guys who are more worth getting to know in the long run. That was certainly the situation with my OH, and my rationale for making the first move. It's a minefield...I'm glad to be out of it!

seenitall · 18-01-2013 12:58am

Rosy Posy wrote: »

There's a fine line between being confident and throwing yourself at someone. You have get good at knowing when someone is interested and when to back off.

Yes. This is why I always verbalise things, i.e. ask them out or whatever. That way everything is very straightforward, so I can move on with a clear conscience then. Simple yes or no means no misunderstandings, no head-games, and being able to get over it quickly.

barry181091 · 18-01-2013 1:41am

A funny anomaly, phenomenon if you like, is that when I was in a relationship, I would find women were far more interested in me than when I was single! That's life for you!

daenerysstormborn3 · 18-01-2013 8:49am

barry181091 wrote: »

A funny anomaly, phenomenon if you like, is that when I was in a relationship, I would find women were far more interested in me than when I was single! That's life for you!

This happens my boyfriend too. He has had girls, who he asked out before we got together and who brushed him off, flirt with him and throw hints around now that he has a girlfriend. It happened to him yesterday in college. He just laughs at them now.

I was 16 the first time I asked a guy, older than me, out so it's something that's never phased me but I do think that men make the first move the majority of the time.

ash23 · 18-01-2013 10:02am

barry181091 wrote: »

A funny anomaly, phenomenon if you like, is that when I was in a relationship, I would find women were far more interested in me than when I was single! That's life for you!

My boyfriend mentioned that recently. He was single for a loooooong time with the occasional fling but he never really got chatted up.
Now he finds that women who've known him years are hitting on him, simply because he's desirable now that someone else has him.

RubyWoo83 · 18-01-2013 12:03pm

I'd have no problem making the first move to be honest. Some men are shy or intimidated or whatever so if I didn't could be missing out on something special.

In fact my last LTR started by me (jokingly) whistling and saying "here boy" to my ex :pac:.

Current person I am seeing I kind of did too I suppose, we had met previously. I was passing in a pub & stopped to say hello, we chatted for a few mins and then my friends were leaving so I basically just said "I'm off so, do you want my number?"...that was about a month ago & so far so good.

Now that I think of it, it's usually the ones that I make the first move on that actually turns into anything significant.

Just how often do women come onto men vs the other way round?

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