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HMV closing (again)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Seems a lot of the stores have closed their shutters this morning...there must be a whole heck of a lot of unredeemed vouchers out there

    Yeah and now it's come out the irish entities aren't under receivership there could easily be a run on the stores, as people are legally entitled to have their vouchers redeemed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Yeah and now it's come out the irish entities aren't under receivership there could easily be a run on the stores, as people are legally entitled to have their vouchers redeemed.

    I can only conclude then that there is a large amount of vouchers out there they don't want to redeem & instead would rather close shop. Some reports is that they are closed for 'staff meetings'...


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Yeah I probably should have paid more attention in Business Studies man. As clear as you have laid it out, I still see it as they have gotten money off the public, given them in return a worthless piece of card, & used the publics money for their own debts, in essence, free money.

    I'll prob never understand it in a business sense at this rate :o

    I think the misconception here is that the money is just 'resting', in the words of a great priest, in a till somewhere. That money will actually only stay in a till for mere hours, if not minutes, and then becomes part of the general cashflow of the company that could be redirected in any number of directions - staff, suppliers, anything else cited above. It's the same with a bank - your savings aren't just sitting in a vault in the back of your local bank. They're being invested and spent in the hope of making a return (interest). When a business is going good, that's all fine - there is enough money resting in till to ensure every creditor is happy. When not, well then it becomes a problem, and the business owners will take the side they think will be more beneficial long-term.

    There's also the whole 'run on the bank' aspect to this, to continue the analogy. As we have seen over the last few days, everyone who has a voucher from the last six months wants to cash it in ASAP (with good cause, of course). Most stores probably work on the assumption that vouchers will be cashed in over a longer period of time (if at all - many just straight-up expire), and use the 'credit' accordingly. A panicked rush is probably not something they can handle, especially with all their current problems to boot - adding insult to injury, if you will. Similarly, a bank could handle a customer or two a day coming in to claim their savings. They'd struggle if every customer suddenly showed up.

    Again, don't for a second think I'm not sympathetic - I am, and if the current speculation that HMV Ireland is a separate entity is true, then its considerably more outrageous and unacceptable than it would be under administration. No excuse, if you will.

    Also have to admit surprise the Grafton St branch is closed already. Certainly didn't expect the repercussions to be felt that quickly. Although going by the reports of what staff and customers had to put up with yesterday, perhaps inevitable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,709 ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    He didn't even give them the voucher. He says he intends to post it to them along with the balance. I'd consider this stealing. No wonder they had to close the doors.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43 magoko101


    Hopefully this may lead to the end of vouchers full stop!

    They tend to be more hassle than they are worth and much better to just hand over cash!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 30,619 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    He didn't even give them the voucher. He says he intends to post it to them along with the balance. I'd consider this stealing. No wonder they had to close the doors.

    If the goods in question weren't a Sims expansion pack and a rail / truck simulator, I'd be inclined to agree with you :p

    But by the sounds of it it was indeed pure anarchy yesterday. Fingers crossed the closures are only temporary while a 'gameplan' is developed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    I think the misconception here is that the money is just 'resting', in the words of a great priest, in a till somewhere. That money will actually only stay in a till for mere hours, if not minutes, and then becomes part of the general cashflow of the company that could be redirected in any number of directions - staff, suppliers, anything else cited above. It's the same with a bank - your savings aren't just sitting in a vault in the back of your local bank

    Oh I know that, I was using the term 'till' figuratively to suggest the money is in HMV's possession.

    The simple question remains, do HMV, buy the sale of vouchers, have additional money somewhere in the business that they wouldn't have had if the vouchers were never sold?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭Theboinkmaster


    EnterNow wrote: »
    The simple question remains, do HMV, buy the sale of vouchers, have additional money somewhere in the business that they wouldn't have had if the vouchers were never sold?

    Yes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Yes.

    Of course they do :)


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 579 ✭✭✭panama


    What's the current situation?

    The shops are closed and people with gift cards are unable to use them instore or online?


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,169 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Oh I know that, I was using the term 'till' figuratively to suggest the money is in HMV's possession.

    The simple question remains, do HMV, buy the sale of vouchers, have additional money somewhere in the business that they wouldn't have had if the vouchers were never sold?

    Yes, due to two factors:

    1) Inflation means that the value at point of transaction of any given lump sum of currency will, over time, decrease. In general the quantity of Stuff you can buy with €10 will be greater right now than it will be in 2 years time, for example. So buy taking your money now but postponing the transaction down the line, they get money at its current value but the cost to them of your purchase is applied at that reduced future worth of the same sum. (Yeah, I know, brain-bendy stuff).
    2) The total number of vouchers sold will be less than the total number of vouchers redeemed in full. Thus, they have extra money in the form of unredeemed paid-in-advance credit.

    And that's before you factor in the potential increase in sales due to people spending actual cash on top of gift vouchers through impulse purchases (though quantifying this effect is very difficult without access to sales & transaction logs).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    Went in to Tower to check out their bluray 'selection'. They have about thirty blurays, beside the Adult DVD section, and the prices are a joke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭horslips


    Agree on Tower's Blu-Ray prices. They used to have much larger selection but they were never going to shift at those prices.

    I miss HMV's 5 for €35 deal already!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,097 ✭✭✭roanoke


    TBH Tower was the first of the "megastores" I just stopped going to completely. They were never competitive on prices. It was like they didn't even care about selling stuff or were just looking to rip-off people who weren't prepared to shop around.

    The only things I ever bought in there were ones I couldn't get elsewhere. I remember buying Die Hard (bare bones edition) on DVD for £22* back in 2000! :eek: I must have been mad.

    It got me thinking though. It's funny reading nostalgic posts on this thread for HMV. Whilst the job losses are a pity I don't actually miss the experience of going into these places (HMV, Tower, Virgin etc). Loud, full of people just swanning around and half the time they don't even have what you're looking for. I won't miss any of them. Give me online shopping any day.

    (* = I reckon about €35 in todays money?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,111 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    EnterNow wrote: »

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Theboinkmaster
    Your voucher at the date of administration is a liability on their balance sheet and so the only way to keep the business going is to write off most of the liabilities and sell the business as a going concern.


    So basically:

    "Here's €50 we got from selling a voucher, lets cancel the voucher & use the €50 to pay off people we owe money to instead"

    Madness, its money they wouldn't have had only for selling the voucher - it should not be allowed to be used as collateral. I don't agree that profit they have from selling vouchers, can be just ignored.



    I do, their money is sitting in HMV's tills while HMV have declared such money/profit non existent & instead call their responsibilities liabilities. Pity we all can't do the same

    Your man has the same attitude as the Government, "lets take your money and give it to people that we owe money to (ie foreign bondholders) tough luck on you" If I had vouchers I'd go in there and take whats owed to me and if they tried to stop me I'd cause an unhly row, I bet the owners of HMV are still living a multimillionaires lifestyle, shower of cnuts. Most Irish people are a bunch of sheep happy to suck corporate dick.:mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    roanoke wrote: »
    TBH Tower was the first of the "megastores" I just stopped going to completely. They were never competitive on prices. It was like they didn't even care about selling stuff or were just looking to rip-off people who weren't prepared to shop around.

    The only things I ever bought in there were ones I couldn't get elsewhere. I remember buying Die Hard (bare bones edition) on DVD for £22* back in 2000! :eek: I must have been mad.

    It got me thinking though. It's funny reading nostalgic posts on this thread for HMV. Whilst the job losses are a pity I don't actually miss the experience of going into these places (HMV, Tower, Virgin etc). Loud, full of people just swanning around and half the time they don't even have what you're looking for. I won't miss any of them. Give me online shopping any day.

    (* = I reckon about €35 in todays money?)

    Try being staff :pac: "have ye got that film with yer man from the thing the other night? you know, yer man!"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,111 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    krudler wrote: »
    Try being staff :pac: "have ye got that film with yer man from the thing the other night? you know, yer man!"

    I would have said "no, all sold out".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,519 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Most Irish people are a bunch of sheep happy to suck corporate dick.:mad:

    You know HMV in the UK is in trouble too right? Any wars over vouchers there?

    Get a ****ing grip and calm down with your rhetoric


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Dodge wrote: »
    You know HMV in the UK is in trouble too right? Any wars over vouchers there?

    Get a ****ing grip and calm down with your rhetoric

    Everyone is going mental about the hmv pure points in the UK if the hmv facebook page is anything to go by


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,519 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Blockbuster UK in administrattion too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,922 ✭✭✭Wossack


    interesting piece from the consumer agency on this:

    http://www.nca.ie/index.jsp?p=100&n=101&a=970

    crux of it being
    The NCA's position remains unchanged, that there is no basis for HMV (Ireland) Ltd. refusing to honour gift vouchers, as the company is not under the protection of the administration or examinership process, despite what was indicated by the company to Irish consumers on 15 January

    ..as only the UK entity has entered administration/examinership, and the Irish HMV is a seperate corporate entity


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Do Blockbuster still have shops here, they've gone into administration as well.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭Augmerson


    mike65 wrote: »
    Do Blockbuster still have shops here, they've gone into administration as well.

    Just tanning salons I think.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭Mizu_Ger


    Augmerson wrote: »
    Just tanning salons I think.

    That was Chartbusters?

    I think Xtravision is owned by Blockbuster.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 26,077 Mod ✭✭✭✭Loughc


    Mizu_Ger wrote: »
    That was Chartbusters?

    I think Xtravision is owned by Blockbuster.


    Xtravision WAS owned by Blockbusters until 2009, some other group bought them out.

    EDIT: In August 2009 Xtra-Vision was bought by an Irish investment group Birchhall Investments. They must have got a cheap deal, well I hope they did, can't see Xtra-Vision lasting much longer either!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    Grafton street hmv closed today was sad to see. Had to go tower records which is a rip off compared to hmv


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭Am Chile


    Few things that were going to have an effect on video/music retailers eventually, (1) high prices at hmv I was last at Hmv dublin in November I had a good look around there was some films on dvd that were priced at €18 or €20 in Hmv meanwhile the exact same films on dvd are priced at only €10 at my local tesco store, same with a lot of tv show boxsets some of the early seasons of supernatural were priced at around €28 in hmv meanwhile the early seasons of supernatural are priced at roughly €15 to €18 at my local golden discs store- even though Hmv has a great selection of world cinema films they are just too overpriced in my view at up to €20 for most of them, before the directors cut store closed in cork I could purchase most of the same world cinema films for around €12 or €14 - (2) Internet technology was going to change things and have an effect on music/film shops someday, in my hometown three music shops and two video rental outlets have closed in the last few years, now Hmv a major retailer is in difficult circumstances, Illegal downloading, I tunes was going to change how most people purchase or get their music eventually, why would someone pay up to €15 or €20 for a music album when they purchase the same album on I tunes for cheaper for better yet Illegally download it, the same with films when you come to new smart tvs the fact someone can watch tv shows/film on them via netflix or other websites, why would people buy or rent dvds anymore when you can just watch something at the click of a button from your smart tv.

    http://www.techshout.com/alternatives/2012/10/sites-like-netflix/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭wampyrus77


    well im going shop at HMV any last chance I get until place closes for good


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  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Seems they are officially closed. Sits ins taking place in stores here with reports that the receiver sent in people to change the locks on stores.

    With the store in Galway gone there isn't a place in town where I can head in and browse a decent selection and pick something up at at a reasonable price. All we have now are Xtravision with their rip off prices, damaged stock and poor selection. There's a few liquidation stores but they're stocked with exrental copies and cheap crap.


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