HMV closing (again)

Marty McFly

Sad to hear about HMV am still hopeful someone will step in and save them, I for one never download films have Sky movies but still love going to HMV and buying my Blu Rays no wait for postage just pop in and buy and usually pick up one or two films I wasnt planing on buying while browsing everytime I go in.

They really are the only really decent place you can go to buy films, music etc. Online use play.com so shocked to hear there shutting shop aswell.

Technocentral

Marty McFly wrote: »

Sad to hear about HMV am still hopeful someone will step in and save them, I for one never download films have Sky movies but still love going to HMV and buying my Blu Rays no wait for postage just pop in and buy and usually pick up one or two films I wasnt planing on buying while browsing everytime I go in.

They really are the only really decent place you can go to buy films, music etc. Online use play.com so shocked to hear there shutting shop aswell.

Tower Records much better selection and prices are better.

Marty McFly

Technocentral wrote: »

Tower Records much better selection and prices are better.

That may be true but in terms of convenience living in Clondalkin having a HMV in Liffey Valley and the Square is a gift, same im sure for people living in Blanchardstown, Dundrum etc.

The thoughts of driving to town, finding parking then making the trip to a Tower Records isn't to appealing.

Levi87

Goldstein wrote: »

Fairly disgraceful to not honour vouchers tbh. I assumed that would be totally illegal. They're still trading so it's effectively fraud.

If it was me I'd arrange with some fellow creditors to stage a very noisey sit-in with the intent of disrupting sales as much as possible. Wouldn't have to be for long - an hour or two even on at the busiest time on Saturday. Make a sign or two and ask customers to stay away. Force them to deal with the issue instead of dismissing it.

Thats a disgusting idea. All you are doing is taking it out on innocent staff who have no control over the situation. Myself included . You should be ashamed of yourself. I called into my local shop today to show support only to find shouting customers & staff almost in tears. If you really wanna make a shout about then bring your protest to the adminastration company, They are the ones making the decision. As effectively HMV as a company does not exists Anymore.

Marty McFly

Levi87 wrote: »

Thats a disgusting idea. All you are doing is taking it out on innocent staff who have no control over the situation. Myself included . You should be ashamed of yourself. I called into my local shop today to show support only to find shouting customers & staff almost in tears. If you really wanna make a shout about then bring your protest to the adminastration company, They are the ones making the decision. As effectively HMV as a company does not exists Anymore.

I agree staff just found out there jobs are on the line most likely gone then have customers shouting at them about a situation that is out of there hands and which has far more reaching effects o there life than the loss of a voucher they recieved as a present.

Loafing Oaf

So I thought I'd take advantage of the blu-ray special offer while there was still time to kickstart my collection. But when I went in I found there was hardly anything I wanted, so I ended up buying nearly all stuff I already have on DVD.

And then the guy ticked me off for carrying them round the shop in my shoulder bag: "ask for a basket next time". I pointed out there probably wouldn't be a next time...

And then he wouldn't give me the €5 off your next purchase thing because I had the receipt rather than the actual docket

Then when I got home I discovered I'd been overcharged: instead of giving me the 5 for 35 and 3 for 25 prices, he totted them up at full price with 25% off each, which worked out about 4 quid dearer. Hopefully I might actually have some comeback on this one, if they're still there next Monday...

batman_oh

Technocentral wrote: »

Tower Records much better selection and prices are better.

I got the Dark Knight Rises for 17 quid in HMV and its was 27 in Tower Records. They were always dearer for new stuff by miles

Levi87

Marty McFly wrote: »

I agree staff just found out there jobs are on the line most likely gone then have customers shouting at them about a situation that is out of there hands and which has far more reaching effects o there life than the loss of a voucher they recieved as a present.

Right now the best way to resolve this crisis regarding gift cards is to go into your local hmv and support them durning this difficult time. If a potential sees that hmv has enough support from customers it will make the business more appealing. And there is a chance they will honor Gift Cards if they takeover. Also the adminastration company may still decide to honor gift cards, just at this moment all assessts are frozen, If worst comes to worse and stores completly close you can send you gift cards to the adminastration company and they may or may not refund them for you. But i have heard this is a lenghty process.

tupac_healy

Levi87 wrote: »

Thats a disgusting idea. All you are doing is taking it out on innocent staff who have no control over the situation. Myself included . You should be ashamed of yourself. I called into my local shop today to show support only to find shouting customers & staff almost in tears. If you really wanna make a shout about then bring your protest to the adminastration company, They are the ones making the decision. As effectively HMV as a company does not exists Anymore.

Try working a&e reception!!!!

I would say this would be a daily occurance but more like hourly!!!

Anyhow, its always sad to hear about job losses or proposed job losses....

nix

Levi87 wrote: »

Right now the best way to resolve this crisis regarding gift cards is to go into your local hmv and support them durning this difficult time. If a potential sees that hmv has enough support from customers it will make the business more appealing. And there is a chance they will honor Gift Cards if they takeover. Also the adminastration company may still decide to honor gift cards, just at this moment all assessts are frozen, If worst comes to worse and stores completly close you can send you gift cards to the adminastration company and they may or may not refund them for you. But i have heard this is a lenghty process.

Good idea, give the people who robbed you more money for products you can get for cheaper elsewhere :rolleyes:

I dont care whos running the show, if people have paid real money for vouchers, lets face it, its store credit. And then get refused the option to use or refund the voucher, it's blatant thievery. They should be shut down instantly on that basis and given no more opportunity to sell their wares, watch how quickly their minds change then, ****in cowboys, **** em!

Levi87

nix wrote: »

Good idea, give the people who robbed you more money for products you can get for cheaper elsewhere :rolleyes:

I dont care whos running the show, if people have paid real money for vouchers, lets face it, its store credit. And then get refused the option to use or refund the voucher, it's blatant thievery. They should be shut down instantly on that basis and given no more opportunity to sell their wares, watch how quickly their minds change then, ****in cowboys, **** em!

So you are willing to take it out on innocent staff who had no idea that this was about to happen .Hmv as a company are not robbing you. Its the Adminastors decision to not validate Gift Cards. If the Press and People band together and actually query the admins on this then they will have no choice but to validate Gift Cards. People are simple wasting there time taking it out on staff behind the counter. All they are doing is literally ripping the wrong people apart.

Levi87

And i Forgot to add that potentially 4,500 people. Myself included will lose there Jobs

Goldstein

Levi87 wrote: »

Thats a disgusting idea. All you are doing is taking it out on innocent staff who have no control over the situation. Myself included . You should be ashamed of yourself.

Taking people's money in bad faith, now that's something to be ashamed about. And I never said a word about harassing the staff, that's obviously pointless but I can understand people's anger and frustration. Irish people lie down way too easily when they're taken advantage of and shame is the last thing they'd feel for standing up for themselves in the right way. I was merely stating that anyone who feels aggrieved by their money effectively being stolen by HMV should be entitled to protest/disrupt if they feel so inclined.

Levi87 wrote: »

Right now the best way to resolve this crisis regarding gift cards is to go into your local hmv and support them durning this difficult time.

Why should anyone support a store that has ripped off so many of their customers?

Levi87

Goldstein wrote: »

Taking people's money in bad faith, now that's something to be ashamed about. And I never said a word about harassing the staff, that's obviously pointless but I can understand people's anger and frustration. Irish people lie down way too easily when they're taken advantage of and shame is the last thing they'd feel for standing up for themselves in the right way. I was merely stating that anyone who feels aggrieved by their money effectively being stolen by HMV should be entitled to protest/disrupt if they feel so inclined.


Why should anyone support a store that has ripped off so many of their customers?

Hmv Stores had no idea that the were going into adminastraton. I agree it was bad faith for Head office to not communicate doubts about gift cards to staff.They had hope off a bailout from suppliers that went tits up. In my eyes staging a "sit in" in the atempt to "disrupt sales" Is harressing Staff. I agree the Irish dont stand up enough for there consumer rights, By all mean Protest & dispute but do so to the right people please, The People who can make a diffferance.

nix

Levi87 wrote: »

So you are willing to take it out on innocent staff who had no idea that this was about to happen .Hmv as a company are not robbing you. Its the Adminastors decision to not validate Gift Cards. If the Press and People band together and actually query the admins on this then they will have no choice but to validate Gift Cards. People are simple wasting there time taking it out on staff behind the counter. All they are doing is literally ripping the wrong people apart.

I'm not attacking the staff, a company choosing to rob people isnt going to make me want to shop there, a decision made by the admins? a poor business decision to say the least, and they swooped in to help? They aint helping anything mate..

Lets face it, if they have chosen to not accept vouchers which people have already paid for, its so they can scavange as much money as possible and then disappear. What else would be the reason? It's thievery, blatant thievery at that, and they will get away with it and those people are still going to lose their jobs. There is no logical reason as to why they wouldnt accept vouchers other than to liquidate as much as possible and then shut down.

Levi87

nix wrote: »

I'm not attacking the staff, a company choosing to rob people isnt going to make me want to shop there, a decision made by the admins? a poor business decision to say the least, and they swooped in to help? They aint helping anything mate..

Lets face it, if they have chosen to not accept vouchers which people have already paid for, its so they can scavange as much money as possible and then disappear. What else would be the reason? It's thievery, blatant thievery at that, and they will get away with it and those people are still going to lose their jobs. There is no logical reason as to why they wouldnt accept vouchers other than to liquidate as much as possible and then shut down.

Claiming Hmv should be shut down. How is that not attacking staff. Peoples livelihoods are at Risk. People who have worked hard bending over back wards to provide Good Service In store, for a job they love, selling product they love to customers. Hmv Staff were screwed over by the company just as much as Customers are. They deserve the support to continue their Jobs just as much as customers deserve to get there Gift Cards redemed.

The company is not making the decision to rob people. The company has no Say in the matter. The Adims Are. The Admins are the ones guilty of thievery. Of course you dont want to shop there. Thats completely understandable. I was simple stating one of the most optomistic solutions to resolve the Issue with getting Gift cards validated. Comet were in the same situation. At first they refused gift cards but after a couple of days they were redemmed.

Fysh

nix wrote: »

I'm not attacking the staff, a company choosing to rob people isnt going to make me want to shop there, a decision made by the admins? a poor business decision to say the least, and they swooped in to help? They aint helping anything mate..

Lets face it, if they have chosen to not accept vouchers which people have already paid for, its so they can scavange as much money as possible and then disappear. What else would be the reason? It's thievery, blatant thievery at that, and they will get away with it and those people are still going to lose their jobs. There is no logical reason as to why they wouldnt accept vouchers other than to liquidate as much as possible and then shut down.

From the sound of this post, you don't understand anything about what happens when a company goes into administration.

• Administrators have been appointed because the company's directors are in substantial doubt about whether the company has any future.
• Now that administrators have been brought in, the directors have no control - the administrators are in charge and are the highest authority for all things relating to management of HMV.
• The primary focus for the administrators is to take inventory of the company assets, cut down on any and all costs that are not absolutely vital to ongoing operation, identify all creditors and pay off debts in order of importance until the money/assets run out, and determine whether any future exists for the company, either wholly or in part. Where possible they will work to restructure the business to give it some kind of future; this may involve a third party becoming involved buy some or all of the existing business.
• As a voucher holder, you would be a creditor. You are, however, much further down the pecking order than eg the ESB, the owners of their business premises, or their distributors/stockists. Your €50 voucher, frustrating though this is to hear, is not a high priority for the administrators.

There is a very clear reason they would suspend acceptance of vouchers - vouchers represent an asset cost without a material gain during the transaction, because they are pre-paid credit. Hence the decision to lump voucher holders in with other creditors and require them to wait for the outcome of the administration process.

It's frustrating, sure, and I would agree that selling vouchers over Christmas was in bad faith at a senior management level. Throwing your toys out of the pram in a way that demonstrates a lack of understanding of what's actually happening (and, from the look of it, a lack of empathy for the many store staff who face redundancy) is not going to help your case, either in terms of winning people over or getting your money back.

Theboinkmaster

Fysh wrote: »

From the sound of this post, you don't understand anything about what happens when a company goes into administration.

• Administrators have been appointed because the company's directors are in substantial doubt about whether the company has any future.
• Now that administrators have been brought in, the directors have no control - the administrators are in charge and are the highest authority for all things relating to management of HMV.
• The primary focus for the administrators is to take inventory of the company assets, cut down on any and all costs that are not absolutely vital to ongoing operation, identify all creditors and pay off debts in order of importance until the money/assets run out, and determine whether any future exists for the company, either wholly or in part. Where possible they will work to restructure the business to give it some kind of future; this may involve a third party becoming involved buy some or all of the existing business.
• As a voucher holder, you would be a creditor. You are, however, much further down the pecking order than eg the ESB, the owners of their business premises, or their distributors/stockists. Your €50 voucher, frustrating though this is to hear, is not a high priority for the administrators.

There is a very clear reason they would suspend acceptance of vouchers - vouchers represent an asset cost without a material gain during the transaction, because they are pre-paid credit. Hence the decision to lump voucher holders in with other creditors and require them to wait for the outcome of the administration process.

It's frustrating, sure, and I would agree that selling vouchers over Christmas was in bad faith at a senior management level. Throwing your toys out of the pram in a way that demonstrates a lack of understanding of what's actually happening (and, from the look of it, a lack of empathy for the many store staff who face redundancy) is not going to help your case, either in terms of winning people over or getting your money back.

+1
Nice post

Myrddin

Fysh wrote: »

There is a very clear reason they would suspend acceptance of vouchers - vouchers represent an asset cost without a material gain during the transaction

But they already got the material gain when the voucher was purchased, so someone redeeming a voucher isn't costing HMV a single cent.

Theboinkmaster

EnterNow wrote: »

But they already got the material gain when the voucher was purchased, so someone redeeming a voucher isn't costing HMV a single cent.

No you're wrong - it will cost them the stock they give out in exchange for the voucher, this is revenue forgone. To be fair Fysh explained the process very well you need to accept this

Myrddin

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

No you're wrong - it will cost them the stock they give out in exchange for the voucher

Maybe I'm just thick & don't get this, but they have surplus money sitting in the till from the sale of a voucher, how can a customer redeeming that voucher cost the store anything?

maximoose

Technocentral wrote: »

Tower Records much better selection and prices are better.

World cinema selection is probably better I'll give you that, but HMV would have them beaten on price probably 90% of the time - and that was including a tower staff discount

It sounds like HMV Ireland are a separate entity, not under administration and legally should still be accepting vouchers. Anybody who's got some should keep appraised of the situation and redeem them asap if possible.

Theboinkmaster

EnterNow wrote: »

Maybe I'm just thick & don't get this, but they have surplus money sitting in the till from the sale of a voucher, how can a customer redeeming that voucher cost the store anything?

If they don't redeem the voucher they get to write off the liability to their income statement so it will effectively be a credit (as they received cash for no service or product offered).

If they let you redeem the voucher only the margin (quite small i imagine) will end up in their income statement. The charge is the cost of the product they gave you in exchange for the voucher - this is the cost of whatever they paid the wholesaler for the product.

Now if they don't redeem the voucher and someone else pays them for the same product they will receive that additional revenue. It is this additional revenue that they will forgoe should they redeem your voucher and hence a cost to the company.

I know it's completely unfair from a consumer point of view but from a business sense it is the way of the world unfortunately.

Theboinkmaster

Deleted User wrote: »

It sounds like HMV Ireland are a separate entity, not under administration and legally should still be accepting vouchers. Anybody who's got some should keep appraised of the situation and redeem them asap if possible.

Yeah i heard this on newstalk this morning - if true then they legally should redeem vouchers and if they didn't I'd immediately file a small claims court claim online. This however could be a waste of time because if the Irish entities are put into receivership then you're back to square one, as you'll be an unsecured creditor.

Not really sure how you'd make them redeem the voucher, the staff at the store aren't going to know anything about company law etc so no point taking it out on them.

BTW for the sake of the staff i went in yesterday and bought a few blu rays, although their selection was awful. Hopefully the business will survive in some way.

stesaurus

EnterNow wrote: »

Maybe I'm just thick & don't get this, but they have surplus money sitting in the till from the sale of a voucher, how can a customer redeeming that voucher cost the store anything?

It doesn't work that way in the accounts. Your voucher will be listed as a creditor along with a whole list of other un-secured creditors.

Maybe there should be laws introduced so that voucher holders are considered secured creditors but to be honest I think its fair that gift vouchers rank behind staff wages, revenue and the banks.

Myrddin

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

If they don't redeem the voucher they get to write off the liability to their income statement so it will effectively be a credit (as they received cash for no service or product offered).

If they let you redeem the voucher only the margin (quite small i imagine) will end up in their income statement. The charge is the cost of the product they gave you in exchange for the voucher - this is the cost of whatever they paid the wholesaler for the product.

Now if they don't redeem the voucher and someone else pays them for the same product they will receive that additional revenue. It is this additional revenue that they will forgoe should they redeem your voucher and hence a cost to the company.

I know it's completely unfair from a consumer point of view but from a business sense it is the way of the world unfortunately.

Yeah I probably should have paid more attention in Business Studies man. As clear as you have laid it out, I still see it as they have gotten money off the public, given them in return a worthless piece of card, & used the publics money for their own debts, in essence, free money.

I'll prob never understand it in a business sense at this rate

Dodge

HMV Grafton Street closed today. Won't re-open

Feel sorry for the staff involved far more than those with useless presents now

Myrddin

Dodge wrote: »

HMV Grafton Street closed today. Won't re-open

Feel sorry for the staff involved far more than those with useless presents now

Because all those with useless presents have jobs too? Sure its a kicker to see anyone losing their jobs, but many voucher holders are unemployed too so its hard to garner pity from them

Myrddin

Seems a lot of the stores have closed their shutters this morning...there must be a whole heck of a lot of unredeemed vouchers out there